Colorado Bill SB19-054 RE: (Former) Military Vehicle Motor Vehicle Regulation

[Atmus]

since then, the last 2 renewals were by mail and uneventful. They send some dumb 1page mileage affidavit form and I send it back with a check. I put the wrong mileage every time. They don't care. it's been costing ~$300 per year. All for a vehicle that hauls kids around at parades.

Interesting fact, I'm probably one of the guys that mails that to you. I have no part in any of the DMV's decisions, I just program the machinery that prints and mails those.

I have to mail myself a similar thing for a collector's truck that's been grandfathered in with the no emissions testing thing. I have to sign an affidavit promising not to drive more than such and such miles on state roads per year. No one at the DMV can tell me who they theoretically prove this, as i don't have to give the mileage I do drive, nor are there any inspections.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

My data on this. I'm in Grand Junction CO and I was able to register the A1 lmtv as a class5 vehicle. This happened in November '21. That's the good part.

Bad part: the director witch-in-charge at the DMV, who was also running for county clerk in the aftermath of the 2020 voting scandal here, heard the words "military vehicle" and ran over to me and started treating me like shit, yelling at me, telling me these are "outlawed by Gov Polis", etc, etc. she stated I needed a "certified letter" from the EPA to operate this on public roads. Her words. I knew this was an activist-in-charge situation (inverse of active shooter situation) so I put my better half in command, while I walked outside with a police officer to "verify the VIN". Yes, an actual cop was doing this at the directors request. Back inside, my wife worked her bureaucratic magic and got this DMV director to back down far enough to at least let the state computer decide if the title would print/issue. She was just floating all the other nonsense. (Truck had no prior title, just bill of sale). She claimed state "law would prevent it from printing". Polis said, Polis said! Then she stormed off. She was quite confident.

Everyone else who works there must hate this woman bc she left the room and 3 other admins came over to help. They hit "enter" and the computer printed the title instantly, got my tags on the spot too. The tags say "CDC-###", this was just as Covid was ramping down lol. I'm a CDC government vehicle!!! You don't need a vax, this vehicle is proof!

They hit me for GVW and said I'm required to keep "a mileage log". $2,675 all in. Fuckers

since then, the last 2 renewals were by mail and uneventful. They send some dumb 1page mileage affidavit form and I send it back with a check. I put the wrong mileage every time. They don't care. it's been costing ~$300 per year. All for a vehicle that hauls kids around at parades.

Moral is, when the liberal Marxists start demanding things, just refuse to comply and they'll crumble. The system is meant to be worked, so let's work it.

My data on this. I'm in Grand Junction CO and I was able to register the A1 lmtv as a class5 vehicle. This happened in November '21. That's the good part.

Bad part: the director witch-in-charge at the DMV, who was also running for county clerk in the aftermath of the 2020 voting scandal here, heard the words "military vehicle" and ran over to me and started treating me like shit, yelling at me, telling me these are "outlawed by Gov Polis", etc, etc. she stated I needed a "certified letter" from the EPA to operate this on public roads. Her words. I knew this was an activist-in-charge situation (inverse of active shooter situation) so I put my better half in command, while I walked outside with a police officer to "verify the VIN". Yes, an actual cop was doing this at the directors request. Back inside, my wife worked her bureaucratic magic and got this DMV director to back down far enough to at least let the state computer decide if the title would print/issue. She was just floating all the other nonsense. (Truck had no prior title, just bill of sale). She claimed state "law would prevent it from printing". Polis said, Polis said! Then she stormed off. She was quite confident.

Everyone else who works there must hate this woman bc she left the room and 3 other admins came over to help. They hit "enter" and the computer printed the title instantly, got my tags on the spot too. The tags say "CDC-###", this was just as Covid was ramping down lol. I'm a CDC government vehicle!!! You don't need a vax, this vehicle is proof!

They hit me for GVW and said I'm required to keep "a mileage log". $2,675 all in. Fuckers

since then, the last 2 renewals were by mail and uneventful. They send some dumb 1page mileage affidavit form and I send it back with a check. I put the wrong mileage every time. They don't care. it's been costing ~$300 per year. All for a vehicle that hauls kids around at parades.

Moral is, when the liberal Marxists start demanding things, just refuse to comply and they'll crumble. The system is meant to be worked, so let's work it.

Now trace it back to AAMVA. Look for Colorado's head of the DMV in their literature. It is much like the World Economic Forum.

 

[MatthewWBailey]

Now trace it back to AAMVA. Look for Colorado's head of the DMV in their literature. It is much like the World Economic Forum.

I've traced thru some of that bc of your earlier post. There's a few career minded bureaucrats over there on the front range also associated with AAMVA on their board of directors. State police captains, former sanitation workers and the like. The private association pays them to be "directors" while they still hold government positions and have sway in the politic. It's the classic model of NGO's influencing government to circumvent the voting process.

 

[MatthewWBailey]

Interesting fact, I'm probably one of the guys that mails that to you. I have no part in any of the DMV's decisions, I just program the machinery that prints and mails those.

I have to mail myself a similar thing for a collector's truck that's been grandfathered in with the no emissions testing thing. I have to sign an affidavit promising not to drive more than such and such miles on state roads per year. No one at the DMV can tell me who they theoretically prove this, as i don't have to give the mileage I do drive, nor are there any inspections.

Bureaucracy doesn't know anything but how to perpetuate the bureaucracy. They're not "doers". If you stop printing those it'll take 3 years for the DMV to figure out how to hire someone to print them.

 

[Amer-team]

I finally got my 1991 M923A2 licensed for the road March 2023. Been trying for 5 years. I had bought it from an estate. He bought if from GP but died about 3 weeks after he brought it home and didn't get the title paperwork going. Family couldn't find the SF97 or Bill of Sale. We have a process in WA to license a vehicle that doesn't have a title. it takes a State Patrol inspection and you wait 3 years. The inspector wrote down off road vehicle only so the DMV wouldn't give me on road plates. I had insurance and the truck is nice and safe, so drove it on the 4th and 11 NOV anyway. Finally in March went in to license another vehicle and I asked the clerk if she could get me collector plates on the vehicle. She checked and found that it was Off Road Only titled. She fiddled with it and worked some magic and issued me a plate. When the SP inspector looked at it the first time, he told me we don't license MV's in WA. I paused for a second and told him that I had 7 that were and one had been licensed for 35 years. Don't think he was happy.

 

[jeffhuey1n]

My data on this. I'm in Grand Junction CO and I was able to register the A1 lmtv as a class5 vehicle. This happened in November '21. That's the good part.

Bad part: the director witch-in-charge at the DMV, who was also running for county clerk in the aftermath of the 2020 voting scandal here, heard the words "military vehicle" and ran over to me and started treating me like shit, yelling at me, telling me these are "outlawed by Gov Polis", etc, etc. she stated I needed a "certified letter" from the EPA to operate this on public roads. Her words. I knew this was an activist-in-charge situation (inverse of active shooter situation) so I put my better half in command, while I walked outside with a police officer to "verify the VIN". Yes, an actual cop was doing this at the directors request. Back inside, my wife worked her bureaucratic magic and got this DMV director to back down far enough to at least let the state computer decide if the title would print/issue. She was just floating all the other nonsense. (Truck had no prior title, just bill of sale). She claimed state "law would prevent it from printing". Polis said, Polis said! Then she stormed off. She was quite confident.

Everyone else who works there must hate this woman bc she left the room and 3 other admins came over to help. They hit "enter" and the computer printed the title instantly, got my tags on the spot too. The tags say "CDC-###", this was just as Covid was ramping down lol. I'm a CDC government vehicle!!! You don't need a vax, this vehicle is proof!

They hit me for GVW and said I'm required to keep "a mileage log". $2,675 all in. Fuckers

since then, the last 2 renewals were by mail and uneventful. They send some dumb 1page mileage affidavit form and I send it back with a check. I put the wrong mileage every time. They don't care. it's been costing ~$300 per year. All for a vehicle that hauls kids around at parades.

Moral is, when the liberal Marxists start demanding things, just refuse to comply and they'll crumble. The system is meant to be worked, so let's work it.

You could come north to the free state of Wyoming. I have had no problem titling my trucks. I have Pioneer tags because I only drive them in parades or vehicle shows/military open houses and I support Toys For Tots.

 

[MatthewWBailey]

You could come north to the free state of Wyoming. I have had no problem titling my trucks. I have Pioneer tags because I only drive them in parades or vehicle shows/military open houses and I support Toys For Tots.

I might take you up on that if 2024 goes to sleepy Joe, either there or Utah. TX is on the list at 3rd but it's effing hot there.

 

[jeffhuey1n]

I might take you up on that if 2024 goes to sleepy Joe, either there or Utah. TX is on the list at 3rd but it's effing hot there.

Texas has Texas size bugs and the western half smells like a poorly functioning refinery. Utah is beautiful. The locals can be a bit odd. At least they were back in 1986, when I was stationed there. They have a lot to offer. Wyoming can be a bit overwhelming. Lots of open spaces (95% give or take a few) where you are miles from everything. McDonald’s are only in the larger towns as is Walmart. If you don’t need them, welcome to Wyoming. Just don’t try to change things and never tell anyone you are from those “C” states (California, Colorado).

 

[41cl8m5]

I have been really busy these past months and I just got done scan through this post and seeing what has been said.
The issue with the State of Colorado and it Statutes, or laws Have to do with how they are interpreted and by who.

The original writer and the committee that agreed to it and submitted the “bill” to the whole membership of that House or Senate for first reading, then after second reading any amendments are submitted to the floor for consideration and each one is considered then voted on to amend to bill. After that the Bill is voted on with any approved amendments, if passed by simple majority then it goes to the other side for the same process, if the bill passes there then it goes to the Governor for signing or veto.

Of course most of us understand how the system works. This is a brief summery, Legislation is only allowed in the first quarter of the year in Colorado. Only exception is if the Governor calls for a special session for a specific purpose.

I know that most involved with the process of writing, members of the committees involved, and the Governor’s folks themselves all agree that Former Military Vehicles should be allowed to be registered, by my involvement both in trying to get a bill into the house that did not make it, more about that later, and with working with lobbyists and talking with those above.

Now, not sure where the “800” number of vehicles came from. I was there when the data was released from the Colorado DMV at one of the study sessions on a bill we were working on that got tabled (killed) due to the COVID pandemic emergency and the laws in the state on legislation timelines with the stay at home orders stuff….remember all that. Anyway the number was at the time 243 in the entire state. Everyone in the room looked at us (2) the MVCC a we could tell it was a “what the hell are we doing here for such a small group“ trying to fix this, the time involved and resources.

Well like I said we were not the only ones affected by the COVID thing, all the bills that year got tabled that had not been passed and gone to the Governor. Then when things started to get somewhat back to better there was State Elections that changed the makeup of the Legislature due to laws in how long you can serve as a state legislature for, term limits & retirement.

Like I have said it is how the statutes are interpreted not how it’s written. Everyone agrees but one person and that person is the one the is in charge of the Colorado Department of Revenue, basically this position is the state’s version of the Federal Government’s IRS. This position is not a political position that is voted on or appointed. This person basically is the CEO of all things that involve anything that has to do with anything with the intake of money for the state. So, this Individual can interpret the statutes and submit regulations to the department and those under the department’s jurisdictions. Just one of them is the Colorado Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)

The DMV was Instructed NOT to let any military vehicles that are in possession of individuals to be registered or titled for “on road use”, so basically they need to be titled as “off road only” stamped.

We have been working with the Collector Car Council of Colorado (CCCC) for over 2 years now with the state in trying to remedy this situation and get all of our vehicles that we love to have to honor this country and to support local events and of course everyone that serves or served especially those that gave the ultimate sacrifice also.

Just remember this is an open forum and folks do read this that may not be in your best interest so be careful and respectful of any and all posts and responses to any threads.

Chris R.

 

[MatthewWBailey]

I have been really busy these past months and I just got done scan through this post and seeing what has been said.
The issue with the State of Colorado and it Statutes, or laws Have to do with how they are interpreted and by who.

The original writer and the committee that agreed to it and submitted the “bill” to the whole membership of that House or Senate for first reading, then after second reading any amendments are submitted to the floor for consideration and each one is considered then voted on to amend to bill. After that the Bill is voted on with any approved amendments, if passed by simple majority then it goes to the other side for the same process, if the bill passes there then it goes to the Governor for signing or veto.

Of course most of us understand how the system works. This is a brief summery, Legislation is only allowed in the first quarter of the year in Colorado. Only exception is if the Governor calls for a special session for a specific purpose.

I know that most involved with the process of writing, members of the committees involved, and the Governor’s folks themselves all agree that Former Military Vehicles should be allowed to be registered, by my involvement both in trying to get a bill into the house that did not make it, more about that later, and with working with lobbyists and talking with those above.

Now, not sure where the “800” number of vehicles came from. I was there when the data was released from the Colorado DMV at one of the study sessions on a bill we were working on that got tabled (killed) due to the COVID pandemic emergency and the laws in the state on legislation timelines with the stay at home orders stuff….remember all that. Anyway the number was at the time 243 in the entire state. Everyone in the room looked at us (2) the MVCC a we could tell it was a “what the hell are we doing here for such a small group“ trying to fix this, the time involved and resources.

Well like I said we were not the only ones affected by the COVID thing, all the bills that year got tabled that had not been passed and gone to the Governor. Then when things started to get somewhat back to better there was State Elections that changed the makeup of the Legislature due to laws in how long you can serve as a state legislature for, term limits & retirement.

Like I have said it is how the statutes are interpreted not how it’s written. Everyone agrees but one person and that person is the one the is in charge of the Colorado Department of Revenue, basically this position is the state’s version of the Federal Government’s IRS. This position is not a political position that is voted on or appointed. This person basically is the CEO of all things that involve anything that has to do with anything with the intake of money for the state. So, this Individual can interpret the statutes and submit regulations to the department and those under the department’s jurisdictions. Just one of them is the Colorado Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)

The DMV was Instructed NOT to let any military vehicles that are in possession of individuals to be registered or titled for “on road use”, so basically they need to be titled as “off road only” stamped.

We have been working with the Collector Car Council of Colorado (CCCC) for over 2 years now with the state in trying to remedy this situation and get all of our vehicles that we love to have to honor this country and to support local events and of course everyone that serves or served especially those that gave the ultimate sacrifice also.

Just remember this is an open forum and folks do read this that may not be in your best interest so be careful and respectful of any and all posts and responses to any threads.

Chris R.

How can I get more involved? One DOR person may be in charge but the 2 lawyers I have on retainer were eager to dive into this on my behalf because singular government-bureaucratic edicts easily fall into the category of discriminatory when not applied equally, which is what's happening. To get publicly harassed and verbally threatened by a government official places liability on the director in charge. That's what they're doing, bc the "rule" is unlawful and they know it. They have 1500 employees and probably can't afford to pay out a settlement to me out of court for the lawsuits coming. Ive had enough of CO's little game of totalitarianism. They'll be seeing me in a red county court.

 

[jeffhuey1n]

How can I get more involved? One DOR person may be in charge but the 2 lawyers I have on retainer were eager to dive into this on my behalf because singular government-bureaucratic edicts easily fall into the category of discriminatory when not applied equally, which is what's happening. To get publicly harassed and verbally threatened by a government official places liability on the director in charge. That's what they're doing, bc the "rule" is unlawful and they know it. They have 1500 employees and probably can't afford to pay out a settlement to me out of court for the lawsuits coming. Ive had enough of CO's little game of totalitarianism. They'll be seeing me in a red county court.

Go git ‘em! I’d love to see a positive outcome to any legal actions.

 

[tommys2patrick]

I as well would like to find some way of helping in a positive manner. I have done some research on this in the past and called senators, joined letter campaigns etc. it just seems so arbitrary over such a well thought out and respectful original statute from our elected officials. I know we likely seem to be such a small group to the DOR that we are not worthy of any consideration. On the other hand it is exactly this kind of thing that alienates the voters. just one more thing to make people not trust the government. where is the justice and fair play for all of the people that had faith, that invested thousands of dollars supporting the government both state and national when these vehicles were sold off. they fully and rightfully believed that the recycling of our governments surplus items was a win-win for America and each state. Let's be honest here, the money we spent acquiring these vehicles was just the beginning. over my years of ownership I can't count all the vendors I have done business with to store, maintain, restore and upgrade. The smiles and camaraderie that brings communities together. I don't understand how all of that value added to each city and community can be thrown away because of a single person's interpretation of legislation that was crafted over such a long period by so many people working for the entire state even though the benefits were bestowed on a relatively small portion. On the other hand, isn't that why we have an ongoing government. To continually revise and make the legislature a living body that serves the individual needs of its citizens however large or small to the best of its ability.


I have the luxury of storing my vehicle on my property until we can hopefully resolve this appropriately. I know that others have decided that our historic vehicle ownership is no longer viable in Colorado. The resulting loss of that history , preservation, pride and respect may not be on a par with other challenges we face as a country. Nevertheless, It is indication of further erosion in a chasm between our government and its people.

 

[MatthewWBailey]

Go git ‘em! I’d love to see a positive outcome to any legal actions.

My county has a new County Clerk (GOP) '23 and we're very Red so I'm communicating with them first to see what's new on this front. By the stated rules issued from DOR, the State DMV could have denied me but this local DMV allowed it despite the actions of an activist director. There's a theme in CO of local authorities ignoring state Edicts on a whole range of topics. People outside think CO is blue but it's actually cowboy Red in almost every county except elite Denver/front range (and the ski resorts) where the urban population exists. So, I have to find out more about this little internal CO battle more before I go in guns a blazin. I'm not the only person pissed off apparently lol. Good to know. Hard working moral people are a strong group we just take awhile to get focused on a new problem.

 

[MatthewWBailey]

I as well would like to find some way of helping in a positive manner. I have done some research on this in the past and called senators, joined letter campaigns etc. it just seems so arbitrary over such a well thought out and respectful original statute from our elected officials. I know we likely seem to be such a small group to the DOR that we are not worthy of any consideration. On the other hand it is exactly this kind of thing that alienates the voters. just one more thing to make people not trust the government. where is the justice and fair play for all of the people that had faith, that invested thousands of dollars supporting the government both state and national when these vehicles were sold off. they fully and rightfully believed that the recycling of our governments surplus items was a win-win for America and each state. Let's be honest here, the money we spent acquiring these vehicles was just the beginning. over my years of ownership I can't count all the vendors I have done business with to store, maintain, restore and upgrade. The smiles and camaraderie that brings communities together. I don't understand how all of that value added to each city and community can be thrown away because of a single person's interpretation of legislation that was crafted over such a long period by so many people working for the entire state even though the benefits were bestowed on a relatively small portion. On the other hand, isn't that why we have an ongoing government. To continually revise and make the legislature a living body that serves the individual needs of its citizens however large or small to the best of its ability.


I have the luxury of storing my vehicle on my property until we can hopefully resolve this appropriately. I know that others have decided that our historic vehicle ownership is no longer viable in Colorado. The resulting loss of that history , preservation, pride and respect may not be on a par with other challenges we face as a country. Nevertheless, It is indication of further erosion in a chasm between our government and its people.

The liberals don't want to see kids happy next to flags like this...

 

[MatthewWBailey]

I have been really busy these past months and I just got done scan through this post and seeing what has been said.
The issue with the State of Colorado and it Statutes, or laws Have to do with how they are interpreted and by who.

The original writer and the committee that agreed to it and submitted the “bill” to the whole membership of that House or Senate for first reading, then after second reading any amendments are submitted to the floor for consideration and each one is considered then voted on to amend to bill. After that the Bill is voted on with any approved amendments, if passed by simple majority then it goes to the other side for the same process, if the bill passes there then it goes to the Governor for signing or veto.

Of course most of us understand how the system works. This is a brief summery, Legislation is only allowed in the first quarter of the year in Colorado. Only exception is if the Governor calls for a special session for a specific purpose.

I know that most involved with the process of writing, members of the committees involved, and the Governor’s folks themselves all agree that Former Military Vehicles should be allowed to be registered, by my involvement both in trying to get a bill into the house that did not make it, more about that later, and with working with lobbyists and talking with those above.

Now, not sure where the “800” number of vehicles came from. I was there when the data was released from the Colorado DMV at one of the study sessions on a bill we were working on that got tabled (killed) due to the COVID pandemic emergency and the laws in the state on legislation timelines with the stay at home orders stuff….remember all that. Anyway the number was at the time 243 in the entire state. Everyone in the room looked at us (2) the MVCC a we could tell it was a “what the hell are we doing here for such a small group“ trying to fix this, the time involved and resources.

Well like I said we were not the only ones affected by the COVID thing, all the bills that year got tabled that had not been passed and gone to the Governor. Then when things started to get somewhat back to better there was State Elections that changed the makeup of the Legislature due to laws in how long you can serve as a state legislature for, term limits & retirement.

Like I have said it is how the statutes are interpreted not how it’s written. Everyone agrees but one person and that person is the one the is in charge of the Colorado Department of Revenue, basically this position is the state’s version of the Federal Government’s IRS. This position is not a political position that is voted on or appointed. This person basically is the CEO of all things that involve anything that has to do with anything with the intake of money for the state. So, this Individual can interpret the statutes and submit regulations to the department and those under the department’s jurisdictions. Just one of them is the Colorado Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)

The DMV was Instructed NOT to let any military vehicles that are in possession of individuals to be registered or titled for “on road use”, so basically they need to be titled as “off road only” stamped.

We have been working with the Collector Car Council of Colorado (CCCC) for over 2 years now with the state in trying to remedy this situation and get all of our vehicles that we love to have to honor this country and to support local events and of course everyone that serves or served especially those that gave the ultimate sacrifice also.

Just remember this is an open forum and folks do read this that may not be in your best interest so be careful and respectful of any and all posts and responses to any threads.

Chris R.

So I got some new info from the local county executive DMV/Clerk director today, albeit not positive. To get here, I basically filed a complaint and she called me lol. Viola'. To her credit, the new clerk regime is very pro mv, pro normal people.

She confirmed in July '23 they (CO) ultimately passed the law which "wipes out" the registrations of any former military vehicle of a specific "make". ""=her words. The makes were "Willys, Hummers, and those big tank looking things". I clarified that she means the 8x8 Hemtt's. "The huge trucks with 8 wheels that look like tanks". The make is what's flagged in the DMV computer system, regardless of prior titling. So Willy's, AM general, Oshkosh. she was very specific on those makes, but only those. Any former or new registration will not be issued for these unless it's OHV. She confirmed this has been sporadically rolling out since '21 but didn't go into specifics. This is all coming from the state house in Denver, and you Know who's Governor.

The reason given was "vehicle safety", nothing more. Those "this vehicle can roll over" placards on Humvees aren't helping. In contrast, She pointed out that any and all denied mv's can go thru a vehicle safety upgrade variance process but admitted most people don't bc it's comprehensive, and thereby expensive. She mentioned that in the the comical words of some sponsoring the law that "those big things tear up the roads". Very technical opinions by those 'legislators'.

On my S&S 1078, since I got a renewal each of the past 2 years, then I'm apparently fine, for now. She said I'd know if I was "wiped out" by now. So I guess S&S, BAE are not on the flagged make list. I'm assuming BMY, Harsco are not either bc she didn't mention 6x6 trucks. (Unless it's tank like) But MTVR's are Oshkosh so probably flagged.

She apologized for my getting harassed by the old director but admitted there was not much leadership back in '20-'21 at the DMV. The dragon lady is no longer there. So that's a small consolation for me but not much big picture good for MV folks.

Lastly, she noted that there's no new changes coming to MV registration for '24 based on the last conference they were at in Denver. Funny how it's an election year so all's quiet on the 'clubbing of the military vehicle people' front.

So, IMHO, "public safety" is used yet again to negatively impact non blue voters, never seems to be the other way, even when Tesla batteries burn thru the pavement. You don't need me to tell you that 4 more years of Rico statute Joe will just amplify this but I'm compelled to say it.