confused need help

[nmc]

I have a m35a2 that died going up a hill. Anyway after two weeks of headaches and a $600 trucking bill I got it home. We started working on it and found the fuel transfer pump was weak so I put on a new one. It still is doing the same thing it was before you can crank it and it dont hit any or even try to start...runs great with starting fluid (which I use very sparingly). I took out the injectors and hooked them up upside down and they spray so I have enough pressure to trip them. We talked to a few people we know all who work on diesels for a living. One was sure it was the auto timing advancement of the injection pump I took off the cover and the marks on the motor and the marks on the pump are close. I showed the stream of fuel to these guys after cranking it over and they thought it should run on that. One funny thing the weekend before this we got it to start and idle but no acceleration at all and a lot of white smoke (which means she is running lean)...Is it possiple that there is not enough pressure to run even if there is enough to trip the injectors or should I look at the timing closer? I found a spare parts injector pump so I am covered there i hope (code e model). Anyone have any suggestions or thoughts? I might just have to get a whole new pump but at a grand I hate to do it so I want to see if it is something simple like the fuel desity valve or pressure regulator assy. or the little fuel pump on the side of the injection pump. (it is not something too simple checked the intake and exhaust for restrictions and have bled the lines well.) ONE INTERESTING THING IT HAS A LDT 1 C motor but no turbo what is the deal on that??? Thanks for any help this is sure a tricky deal!!!!
:freaked:

 

[ken]

This may sound crazy, but did you change the fuel filters? Is there any white smoke when cranking but not running? You mentioned the injectors sprayed when up side down, but when the piston in thecompression stroke there might be enough clyinder pressure to not allow a good spray. If the filters are clogged the injection pump maybe getting fuel but not enough to run. Good luck.

 

[cranetruck]

I would suspect the timing. A non turbo engine will have the timing set at 25 BTDC and the turbo 20 degrees BTDC.
If the engine had a turbo to begin with (the tag indication) and if the turbo was removed, perhaps the timing wasn't set back to 25 .

 

[nmc]

changed all 3 fuel filters and put in new diesel it is nothing that simple unfortunatly. On the timing it did start and run great and I drove it about 15 miles untill it slowed way down going up a hill. It then died and would not restart. How would it get out of time all of a sudden though?

 

[cranetruck]

I would still check the timing.

 

[nmc]

ok...to adjust it if it is off you would have to take the pump off and move it to a different tooth on the gear...i dont see how it could have moved there unless the auto advancement is messed up.

 

[cranetruck]

No, you don't have to take the pump off.
There is a cover plate (facing the radiator) that has to be removed and 3 ea cap screws holding the timing gear in place. These screw sit in elongated holes and can move if not tightened properly.
TM 9 2815-210-34-2-2 is the manual of choice.

 

[nmc]

oh I think i will give that a check thanks

 

[brgmchevy]

Sorry about an off topic question but by putting a turbo on a non-turbo engine, would it be necessary to set the timing to 20 or would the 25 setting work?

 

[Desert Rat]

NMC,
Check to be sure you didn't jump your timing. It sounds just like the engine did just that. One tooth off is all it takes. You can be close upon looking at the markings. However, dead on is always the best policy. Just do like Kenny suggested and you should be fine. Keep us updated!

 

[nmc]

Sure will. Thanks.

 

[nmc]

just thinking about it should i time it to the ldt mark on the crankshaft pulley like the motor is or the ld 465 there are three marks with the engine names listed on the crankshaft pulley on the motor with out the turbo what one should i use?

 

[cranetruck]

Since you do not have a turbo, use the LD-465 mark. It's the middle mark (25 deg).
If you have the turbo, denser hotter conditions are created sooner in the cycle and you want to retard the time of fuel injection to prevent pre ignition.

Guido, you could still use 25 deg for the turbo, but be careful about loading it down, I would guess that pre igniton could become a problem.

 

[nmc]

thank you will let you guys know how it goes after the weekend thanks for all your help it is appreciated!!

 

[rdixiemiller]

I would look in the tech manual and find out how to check injection pump pressure. We had a pump fail on an old Case W-7 front end loader, same thing. Running along loading dirt, power started dropping rapidly. In 2 minutes it went dead. It would run on ether, but not on the injector pump. We ended up pulling the pump and dragging it to a diesel shop. They found a blown sealing ring or o-ring in the high pressure side. After that, it ran fine. It was an American Bosch pump, if I remember correctly.
If you started losing power, and rapidly slowed down and stopped, that could be it. If the truck suddenly shut down, you would look for broken parts, like timing gears. What was the temperature looking like when it quit? Normal or hot?
If you need sections of the TM on the injection pump, I will e-mail them to you. If you have high speed internet, you can download them from the govt. site. in about 5 minutes, about 7 megs if I remember correctly.
Good Luck!
Keep us posted!

 

[nmc]

I did find the site and downloaded the fuel pump manual...I think i will check the timing and then check a few things on the pump...I wish it was closer but it is at the garage 30 miles from here...oh well a great weekend project...It was running normal and then lost power...Will let you guys know what I find out thanks

 

[rdixiemiller]

How quickly did this happen? 30 seconds, 2 minutes? 5 minutes? That will help rule some things out. Jumping time would be an extremely fast shutdown, engine drops all power, slows rapidly, hit the clutch and the engine will go completely dead. Fuel pump can be the same, or a couple or 3 minutes. Severe overheating can take 3-6 minutes, depending on the load. Since it quit on a hill, under higher load than normal driving, I would lean towards fuel system issues. Since the engine will crank on ether, you know the basic internals are still in place, valves, pistons, cam and gears, etc. You might want to check the fuel shutoff mechanism in the injector pump, someone on the G503 site had a problem with that coming loose and killing the engine.
Find a diesel mechanic that is sympathetic and get him to let you use his compression tester. That will rule out head gaskets, valves, pistons and rings, etc.
I will see which manual has the engine troubleshooting guide and let you know which to look in. Or, send me your snail address and I will send you a CD manual. I just burned some tonight for some guys on SS. Sorry for the delay fellas, I'm pretty well covered up at the moment!

 

[nmc]

Checked the fuel shutoff part, if it is in the injector pump it has to be lack of pressure although it did have enough to trip the injectors. I cant wait to get to work on it this weekend will keep you posted. Also I bought a cd manual and it is on its way Thanks for the offer though!

 

[nmc]

to let you guys know It was not the timing looks like I dont have enough fuel pressure so I am in search of a injector pump. Any suggestions where to get it for the best price? or where to have it rebuilt.

 

[M543A2]

To address timing, we have put a whistler turbo on an M35 engine that was originally non-turbo, set up the fuel, and did not change the timing. It runs great with no problems. We have towed five tonners home 110 miles with it with no ill affects. One of the things normally done on all of our tractors and trucks like my Dodge Cummins is to advance the pump timing and increase fuel for more performance. Any diesel shop that works with performance will tell you to do that. In fact, we are considering setting up the timing on our five tonners when we get the time. It is a good idea to install a pyrometer to monitor exhaust temp.

Regards Marti