contemplating LMTV or FMTV purchase

[juha_teuvonnen]

My family grew, I have 2 kids (ages 5 and 2) and the truck is for camping "expeditions". Not like a real expedition camper, something more local and less expensive. I currently own a well sorted m923a2 with 3 air ride seats in the cab. I don't feel like butchering the cab to get 2 more seats for kids. Is it possible to have 4 seats in fmtv/lmtv, with 2 of them suitable for kids aged up to about 12-13?

I heard that A1 (later model) FMTV trucks are more reliable, but how bad are the A0? I used to work as a Porsche tech in my younger years, so I consider myself a reasonably competent mechanic. I was once trained to operate foreign heavy equipment with air brakes, but only did regular maintenance and light repairs on it. I am in a completely different line of work now, with little spare time for mechanical projects.

I read some horror stories about the A0s, from the time they were first released. How bad are they now? What are the typical problems, and what should I check when looking at FMTV? Based on reading this forum, looks like air drier is a problem child, CTIS and air brakes will need to be gone through. What scares me is the engine and transmission. Anything in particular to check with them, other than the usual checks for blow-by, leaks and shifting? Should I pay someone to pull the fault codes on the Allison trans?

Should I follow the "used Porsche buyer method" of buying the best condition truck that fits my budget? Not the fanciest or the most powerful, but the one in best shape? Or are the issues with these trucks exaggerated? How is the parts availability?

P. S. I am better equipped than some auto repair shops, with plasma cutter, MIG and TIG welders, metal lathe, small mill, sizable collection of air and hand tools. The thing I am short on is time, I work long hours.

 

[Suprman]

Lots of threads here on lmtv opinions. Us lmtv guys like them. Some guys like the older trucks.

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

Lots of threads here on lmtv opinions. Us lmtv guys like them. Some guys like the older trucks.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to poop on these trucks. On the contrary, I kind'a like them, from a distance so far. Just trying to assess what I am getting myself into. I am hopefully being realistic with my assumptions that no military surplus vehicle that sat for 20 years is going to be a trouble-free ready to go rig right after the auction. Dried out seals, leaky gaskets and hoses, electrical issues, things that go bad due to storage will need to be addressed. Trucks are designed to be used for their intended purpose - driven. If you let them sit for 20 years or so, things will go wrong. My 923a2 certainly needed work, despite being a newer and relatively low mileage truck.

I am just trying to honestly assess the amount of trouble I am getting myself into. Realistically, I don't have time for a 9-month full time truck restoration project. I don't even have 3 months full-time I can spend. I have a military vehicle specialist that I trust, but he is not too keen on working on FMTVs. According to him, they are much more complicated than the previous generation, and it often takes twice as many hours to do the same repair on FMTV than it did on an older truck. The customers are unwilling to shell out 2x the money just because the truck is an FMTV.

Ideally, I would like to pay extra and buy a truck that is well sorted and maintain it in top shape. Still need to figure out seating arrangements for the kids.

 

[Suprman]

The lmtv is roomy and very comfortable to drive. Dosnt bounce all over the highway like the m939 trucks do. Has 3 bucket seats with shoulder belts. Modern trucks have more electrical than older ones. I don’t think they are hard to fix once you understand them. Dosnt look as mean as the older trucks but hey you can’t have everything.

 

[Coffey1]

I love them

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

The lmtv is roomy and very comfortable to drive. Dosnt bounce all over the highway like the m939 trucks do. Has 3 bucket seats with shoulder belts. Modern trucks have more electrical than older ones. I don’t think they are hard to fix once you understand them. Dosnt look as mean as the older trucks but hey you can’t have everything.

So the family might like the lmtv better, due to it being more comfortable. I grew up on the other side of the pond, where cabover trucks are more popular. It's certainly easier for me to drive a cabover in traffic, but that's a personal preference that many will disagree with. As for looks, I actually like both 923a2 and the FMTV. There may be an advantage to the more politically correct looks of FMTV, less issues with neighbors.

 

[Coffey1]

A 1078 is just a truck on steroids.
You can actually park it in a normal parking spot

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

How much do the nice A0 and A1 fetch at an auction these days? How much time and money (in parts) does it take to get one 100% functional, assuming no cosmetics is done?

 

[Coffey1]

Last one we picked up 8500
What was needed to get truck rolling batteries, headlights, wipers, change oil in rear axle due to water

 

[Coffey1]

Haven't bought a A1 yet so no info on them

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

Last one we picked up 8500
What was needed to get truck rolling batteries, headlights, wipers, change oil in rear axle due to water

Is it possible to get one with functional CTIS and no air brake problems around 9 grand? I can live without CTIS, provided the tires stay inflated and there are no air leaks that interfere with brakes.

Do these trucks come with motor oil in transmission? Are there rubber parts that need to be replaced proactively due to age, like valve diaphragms and such?

I want my air brakes perfect. I have seen aftermath of a semi with a tank on the back losing air brakes. It was fatal for all involved.

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

The more I think about the LMTV, the more I like the idea. If you can get one for 10 grand all in, it's a bargain. You can't get a heavy duty diesel pickup in good condition for this much, and LMTV is more capable. Yet, it's sufficiently civilized not to be a nuisance.

The only thing I need to figure out is seats for kids. There is an LMTV or sale locally, I'll take a look and see what can be done about them.

 

[Ronmar]

Well unless you get one from a reseller who actually went thru everything(has receipts for parts ect as opposed to a "looks good to me" inspection) then you get what you get from auction. Unfortunately I don't think you are going to get one that has actually been gone thru for <9K. In the end if you want peace of mind, look for a decent one from auction and go thru it yourself...

 

[Suprman]

I have a few here in CT

 

[wandering neurons]

I've had an M35 (with "C" whistler motor) years ago, and now have an LMTV (M1081). The M35 was very inexpensive to operate, ran on nearly any kind of fuel, and was simple to maintain, with tons of M35-specific parts available. The LMTV, on the flip side, is more expensive to operate as it is more complicated and must have diesel as fuel, not "goat-piss" that the M35 would run on. And parts are more complicated to find.
BUT! The LMTV does us many commercial parts that are readily available (brakes, engine, transmission, electric) from NAPA and other truck part suppliers. Manuals are all online and available, and with the growing number of operators/owners, answers for strange problems are more forthcoming.
Comfort-wise, there's no comparison, the LMTV wins! Power steering, air brakes, automatic transmission, more modern diesel engine, relatively air-tight cab, and lots of options for improvements.
I got my LMTV second-hand for dirt cheap (<$5000). The original owner bought it at auction and had neither the time and experience to make it road-worthy. Besides the usual relays to be properly installed or replaced, I had to rebuild all of the air brake cans (cheap but tedious). There were a number of air valves that had to be replaced due to failure, mostly because of water contamination. Some smaller air lines were replaced as well. Big thing, which I think was unique to my truck, was a messed-up steering - the steering knuckle pivots were not properly shimmed, and the steering was nearly locked up tight. Oh, and even though I supposedly had the upgraded drive shafts, with 11k miles showing on the odometer, I dropped about $1k on fully rebuilt shafts. Both had significant wear at the slip coupling and had to be rebuilt with new couplings and yokes. That made a HUGE difference in comfort (and reliability).
CTIS is a nice-to-have if it works. If not, it's easy to convert to a manual setup or disable entirely. Again, manuals and parts are available.
Good LMTVs will be more $$, and fully-sorted ones pretty expensive. But if you get an M35 that's sorted with power steering, modern engine, and automatic transmission, it'll probably be nearly as much.
Neither truck will go much over 50 mph, or get better than maybe 5-6 mpg. Both have open differentials that allow you to get stuck. The LMTV is much easier to drive and park because of the cab-over design, power assist, and shorter length.
So, if you aren't afraid to read, troubleshoot, and get your hands dirty, I'd go for an LMTV over an M35. Keep in mind, if you want/need to keep a low profile, are a shy person, or scare easy, neither is a good choice, get a Hyundai...

 

[Awesomeness]

I put two narrow MRAP seats in the middle, for my kids (7 and 3). They love it. I have a thread around here with pictures. I also still have the CAD drawings for the metal mounting plate, and there just happen to be a couple of those seats left on eBay.

There is only ~31" between the stock seats, so two of these 16" wide MRAP seats just barely squeeze in (compressing the cushions a bit). I had to go measure all the kid booster seats at stores to find some that were also 16" wide (the one in the passenger seat in the picture).

 

[fuzzytoaster]

How much do the nice A0 and A1 fetch at an auction these days? How much time and money (in parts) does it take to get one 100% functional, assuming no cosmetics is done?

I can take this one. Usual auction prices for running A0's range from 6,500-10,000 before fees. A1's will range from 8,500-14,500 (runners bring over 10K usually). Define "nice", nicer looking units will bring 20% more so it seems. 100% functional is hard to say as well but drivable safely will vary by vehicle. Any truck can take your time and/or wallet for issues but if it starts, runs, and stops 90% of your battle is won. A1's are generally newer so theoretically better shape but not always true. Expect to drop a grand for batteries and services at minimum for any auction truck. Alternators are a key failure point and costly (new units are over $2100). A1 engine ECM's are a grand + programming if they fail. Wiring/electrical issues will require time so what's it worth to you?

All in all prioritize what you're wanting in a truck and make the decision of A0 vs A1. Mechanical vs computer. ABS/Non-ABS. Etc.. They each have their pros and cons.

 

[CoryDSP]

You can definitely fit 2 seats in the middle position. Guys generally use middle seats from a pickup or 2nd or 3rd row seats from SUVs, pickups.

My family grew, I have 2 kids (ages 5 and 2) and the truck is for camping "expeditions". Not like a real expedition camper, something more local and less expensive. I currently own a well sorted m923a2 with 3 air ride seats in the cab. I don't feel like butchering the cab to get 2 more seats for kids. Is it possible to have 4 seats in fmtv/lmtv, with 2 of them suitable for kids aged up to about 12-13?

I heard that A1 (later model) FMTV trucks are more reliable, but how bad are the A0? I used to work as a Porsche tech in my younger years, so I consider myself a reasonably competent mechanic. I was once trained to operate foreign heavy equipment with air brakes, but only did regular maintenance and light repairs on it. I am in a completely different line of work now, with little spare time for mechanical projects.

I read some horror stories about the A0s, from the time they were first released. How bad are they now? What are the typical problems, and what should I check when looking at FMTV? Based on reading this forum, looks like air drier is a problem child, CTIS and air brakes will need to be gone through. What scares me is the engine and transmission. Anything in particular to check with them, other than the usual checks for blow-by, leaks and shifting? Should I pay someone to pull the fault codes on the Allison trans?

Should I follow the "used Porsche buyer method" of buying the best condition truck that fits my budget? Not the fanciest or the most powerful, but the one in best shape? Or are the issues with these trucks exaggerated? How is the parts availability?

P. S. I am better equipped than some auto repair shops, with plasma cutter, MIG and TIG welders, metal lathe, small mill, sizable collection of air and hand tools. The thing I am short on is time, I work long hours.

 

[Nomadic]

Keep in mind, if you want/need to keep a low profile, are a shy person, or scare easy, neither is a good choice, get a Hyundai...

What do you mean?

 

[wandering neurons]

Heh. You get lots of attention driving a large ex-military vehicle like the LMTV. Lots of folks want to ask questions, or regale you with stories of their experiences involving military vehicles. Hence, if you are not comfortable talking with strangers who approach you and your truck and want to talk, you might want something a little more mundane than an LMTV (or HEMMT, Mk48, HMMWV, M-35, M900, etc). It's part of the fun of having a unique vehicle!

What do you mean?