Converting your CUCV into a High MPG power diesel! (and solving emissions)

[Jake59]

All,

I have been facinated by engines my whole life. Managing fuel consumption has become an important element in my research ever since I was 10y old nd because I could barely aford buying a few liters of gasoline every week for my off-road use only, 1954 VW Beetle 1100cc and thus I've been tinkering with engines ever since to make them better... and I keep on doing so at the age of 62. However, I am not an engineer and I do not have any design or manufacturing facilities, but I have had plenty of hands-on and trial and error.

This is the best and final stage of what I have learned and I want to share this here with yall:

• I find the group of folks here in SteelSoldiers the best and foremost helpfull, wise, well-mannerd, and of course there are numerous fellow men in uniform, of any group anywhere on www.
• Further development of these designs should not remain in the hands of a single person, nor get lost or perish.

The information herein can be implemented on GM 6.2 diesel, but can also be used on many diesel engines which have mechanical pressure operated injectors (and also on gasoline engines, see further below) . This does not work on electromagnetic or piezo electric injectors as these will be destroyed due to the temperature.

Only fuel vapors burn, all droplets will go out the exhaust, be oxydized without delivering power to the engine, generate soot and ash, emissions, etc... .
Diesel fuel evaporates 100% at 400° celcius or 750° Fahrenheit. I have tried numerous methods for reaching this temperature and one of the obvious methods is by using the principles as found in the Charles Pogue carburettor, which actually makes very good sense: use the exhaust heat, which is definitely higher than 750° F to evaporate your fuel. The problem is however that it takes time before this temperature is rachead in the exhaust and more so, before this heat can be projected, transferred into a fuel vapor system. Also, admittedly, maintaining 750° in the exhaust is not always obvious.

Reaching the vaporising temperature must be very fast, if not instantaneous to be practical and useable on a daily basis. So how do I get fuel vapor quickly? I have been searching for quite a while for an easy, feasible, cost effective, DIY, reliable, ... solution and this is what I found.

The solution is all around us and readily available. Simply use either one (or two) 12VDC or 24VDC and sufficiently heavy ZVS (induction heating element), about 2000W, which power 4 or 8 small coils, one for each injector or you can use a smaller but robust ZVS mounted for each individual injector. The fuel heating coils should be 1.5-2" long and centrally positioned around the high pressure fuel injection line and as close as possible to the injector. A temperature switch which opens once 750° F or a little more is reached must be mounted on the fuel line and after the coil to keep fuel temperature near the injectors at a controlled temperature. Temperature variation (Delta t) between opening and closing (=ZVS on-off switching) must be kept as little as possible to prevent injector dripping, due to pressure increase caused by temperature rise.

Thus the temperature driven pulsing on-off cycle of the ZVS will allow your fuel to be kept at evaporating temperature in the fuel line. However, the diesel fuel will not evaporate in the high pressure line, since the fuel is under high pressure (below 125Bar but still high nevertheless).

When an injector needs to inject, obviously it receives the high pressure pulse or push from the IP, the nozzle needle will lift off the seat at 125 Bar and liquid diesel will spray into the pre-chamber cup. This fuel however, will virtually instantaneously vaporize in the hot air medium of the cup, where the surrounding medium pressure is considerably lower then in the fuel line. Because of the complete fuel evaperation, the oxydation of the fuel with air/oxygen will be much better, actually complete.

This results in a total and clean burn of the injected fuel in the cylinder and no "afterburn" in the exhaust, no soot and no carbon emissions, exhaust temperatures will drop. In consequence, less fuel needs to be injected since now all the fuel does the work in the cylinder, which in turn will increase your gas mileage and power massively.

There are a few things to consider.

• The injector nozzles, of the type, such as on the GM 6.2 and 6.5 engines which have only one single injection opening, with the needle tip protruding are the only suitable diesel injectors for this setup. The protrusion of the needle tip has a cleaning action when moving up and down, preventing the spray hole to get clogged up. Neveertheless, these injectors will require more maintenance, as there will be more carbon build up on and just around the needle tip. No doubt there are a lot more diesel engines using this type of injectors, but mostly these can be found in the older diesel engines, since modern diesels all have multiple spray hole injectors and most are CR, with electromagnetic or piezo controlled injectors, of which the elecrtonics will fail in no time, as said.
• If you use e.g. injectors with multiple tiny spray holes, these will very quickly clog up due to carbon, as the fuel starts to burn as soon as it gets past the needle tip and comes in contact with oxygen. So these nozzle types will not work well or only have a short lifespan.
• The ZVS will put additional stress onto your alternator and electric system. Count with an extra 30-50A continuous power consumption, so wire accordingly. Providing continuous and sufficient alternator power to the ZVS should not be an issue in most cases however.
• A glow plug system will no longer be required, as the fuel will burn instantaneously when injected. But you will still be facing the usual "diesel preheating waiting time". Indeed, once you turn the ignition on, the ZVS will start heating up the fuel inection lines and only after the preset temperature has been reached the engine can be cranked. It takes less than 30 seconds of pre-heating before the fuel line is truly glowing red hot, (which is already too high a temp) so no issues there, ask me how I know.
• The temperature in and of the injector bodies, nozzles and needles will obviously increase considerably. Needles may need some "Honing" to assure smooth operation when "hot". Also keep in mind when torquing things down. Cylinder head temperature may increase some due to the "hot injector" bolted in there.
• The fuel flowing into the return line will be hot, too hot for the rubber hoses to handle. You will need to consider copper/metal return lines and no o-ring or any synthetic materials to be exposed to the hot diesel fuel. Anything above ~250° F will kill all synthetic materials, unless anyone here knows of a synthetic high temp seal or hose? A different type of return hose connection on the injectors must be considered.
• The return lines must first run the fuel through a cooler, before this fuel is allowed to return to the IP, fuel pump,.... to avoid damage to IP, synthetic, rubber lines, seals,....
• Where the coil is mounted on the high pressure line, the line should be made of a material which responds well to induction heating, preferably be corrosion resistent and suitable for repeated and sustained high temp heating and cooling etc...
• The glow plugs are to be removed and replaced by non-protruding plugs. The glow plug tips may otherwise be consumed in the combustion.
• The IP idle setting will have to be lowered considerably to reach a normal idle again, which will be with a much smaller injected dosage of fuel then before.
• Also max rpm must be adjusted to stay within limits of the engine.
• Advance may need some retarding, because of the now much more "all at once bang".
• Needless to say that you can use even a wider range of fuels now, for your engine to burn.
• NOx will relatively increase.
• You will have better throttle response and considerably more power and extremely clean exhaust.
• There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that this entire concept is a by long well known secret in the automobile and oil industry! But the above approach is definitely within reach and feasable for any DIY mechanic!!

For gasoline engines, the same principles apply, however:

• Pre-heat gasoline to 210° Celcius or 410° Fahrenheit, to get 100 evaporation. Again, use an ZVS and coil to vaporize the gasoline. You will only need 1 point of heating to vaporize the fuel and from there the vapor fuel must be mixed with air in the intake.
• Gasoline injectors will melt down at such temperatures, since these are electromagnetic injectors, so these are not usefull. This system works well with carburettors however.
• You may consider using an LPG type carburettor to mix the vapor with the intake air.
• For best efficiency the amount of gasoline passing through the vaporising coil must be delicately dosed to optimise fuel consumption.

I'm sure there are more things that need mentioning, but off the top of my head this kind of covers the most important ones for combustion engines.

And let's face it, we do not need those electric (toy) cars to save the planet!!

Jake

No doubt there will be more interested forums and groups within SS whom may have an interest in this information.

 

[patracy]

I have seen others use the idea, but differently, using heating element wire on the injector lines and injectors to help heat the fuel before the injectors. This was for WVO operation. They still used the glow plug system as well of course. I do have some concerns though with the idea. Induction heating will likely play havoc on injector tolerances or possibly leading to injector seizing at worse, which could lead to catastrophic engine failure by hydrolock. Also there's the no free lunch side of things. Powering something like this will certainly require more from the electrical system, which will place a load on the engine. Will the net gain in fuel combustion outweigh the power load requirement? The WVO heating setup is useful because the fuel is "free", so it's not a big issue if the MPG drops. (Both from the fuel BTU's and the load) Also consider the 6.2/6.5 engine family is a IDI design.

 

[Jake59]

I have seen others use the idea, but differently, using heating element wire on the injector lines and injectors to help heat the fuel before the injectors. This was for WVO operation. They still used the glow plug system as well of course. I do have some concerns though with the idea. Induction heating will likely play havoc on injector tolerances or possibly leading to injector seizing at worse, which could lead to catastrophic engine failure by hydrolock. Also there's the no free lunch side of things. Powering something like this will certainly require more from the electrical system, which will place a load on the engine. Will the net gain in fuel combustion outweigh the power load requirement? The WVO heating setup is useful because the fuel is "free", so it's not a big issue if the MPG drops. (Both from the fuel BTU's and the load) Also consider the 6.2/6.5 engine family is a IDI design.

Agreed!

And I am familiar with the WVO heating elements in various forms. They generate heat, yes, just enough to make the WVO sufficiently fluid for filtering, pumping and pushing through the IP, but nothing even close to what I am talking about here!! Do not confuse these two systems, with very different objectives please.

And as for the injectors, that is precisely why I do point out that the needle may need some honing to assure free movement when operated at 750 degrees. Obviously the complete injector will be hot, but will at the same time also get some degree of cooling on it's outside surface, while the needle remains deeply hidden inside the injector, emerged in 750° F hot diesel fuel. So the needle may expand just that little bit more and thus could tend to jam.
Some "needle tuning" is likely necesary, depending on model and exact build of the nozzle/injector.
Static heating of your nozzles to 750° and checking for free needle movement is the way to verify this and an indicator if and when more honing is required to assure trouble free high temperature operation.

As for the power needed to feed the ZVS, really not an issue, this is peanuts compared to the efficiency and power gains. This is not a WVO system, but a "+200MPG system"!

Jake

 

[patracy]

The systems I'm speaking of use the heating element wire wrapped around the injector lines POST injection pump.

You're asking for a precision machined part that runs at a certain tolerance to be heated through induction to retain the same tolerance. From a machining perspective, that's just not going to work. Also pulsing isn't going to work out given the 6.2's in these trucks (let's say a M1008 ) could be running up to 3K rpm, that means you'd be cycling these induction coils ~60hz. Hardly enough time in between cycles for it to cool/heat. And then there's the timing perspective. You'd want this system to only cycle before the injection event. And off during it (to prevent seizing). And then there's the problem with heating the actual injector before the event to the levels you're speaking about. It's effectively a sealed vessel (from IP, to the nozzle tip). You're asking to heat a fluid 750F and not have expansion? The fluid expansion will cause the mechanical injector to open. Yes, it could be adjusted by having the IP reworked to retard it. But you've also got to address the fluid that left the system from this. Causing the subsequent injection event to be lacking in fuel volume. Now for another thing you're going to have to address. Autoignition, 750F is well above the flash point of diesel fuel.

I completely agree that better fuel atomization will certainly help efficiency. But you're dismissing a lot of physics to this idea.

 

[Jake59]

OK, I do understand what you mean.
I must have poorly expressed myself, my appology!

The systems I'm speaking of use the heating element wire wrapped around the injector lines POST injection pump.
Check, but again, this does not apply to this system.

You're asking for a precision machined part that runs at a certain tolerance to be heated through induction to retain the same tolerance. From a machining perspective, that's just not going to work.
We're not talking about red hot glowing injectors here. It is not the injector which is induction heated, just the fuel line before and the fuel itself of course. The needle will be swimming in hot diesel fuel which in turn will obviously heat up the steel components, thats all.
The ZVS actually runs constantly but obviously should not overheat the fuel too far above the vaporising temperature. That is why a temperature sensor will briefly turn off the ZVS to avoid too high a fuel temperature. This is the only time when the ZVS is turned off during operation.

The ZVS heats up the high pressure fuel line and the fuel of course from just near the injector and up to into the injector. Obviously the injector body itself will never retain 750°, since quite some heat will be dissipated through air cooling and also into the cylinder head and surrounding metal. But for the sake of argument let us assume the injector maintains 750° F throughout. Assuming the entire injector body is heated to the same temperature, this will then cause no issues whatsoever from a tolerances point of view, since all components of the steel injector will expand proportionally as much or as little. It is however unlikely that all parts will have the same temperature and degree of expansion, which is why some needle tuning and honing is required, as stated... Worst case scenario, your needles will fit somewhat "sloppy" in the nozzle when the engine is cold. So what, this is just a one-time machining, grinding or polsihing process to get the "new high temeprature" needle tolerances and done!!

Also pulsing isn't going to work out given the 6.2's in these trucks (let's say a M1008 ) could be running up to 3K rpm, that means you'd be cycling these induction coils ~60hz. Hardly enough time in between cycles for it to cool/heat. And then there's the timing perspective. You'd want this system to only cycle before the injection event. And off during it (to prevent seizing). And then there's the problem with heating the actual injector before the event to the levels you're speaking about. It's effectively a sealed vessel (from IP, to the nozzle tip).
No pulsing of ZVS, just turning off and on, based on fuel temperature reading. So this does not play in any way.

You're asking to heat a fluid 750F and not have expansion? The fluid expansion will cause the mechanical injector to open. Yes, it could be adjusted by having the IP reworked to retard it. But you've also got to address the fluid that left the system from this. Causing the subsequent injection event to be lacking in fuel volume.
At startup, the fuel is heated up and from there on and until the engine is shut off, the fuel in the high pressure lines maintains the same temperature, so there is no significant variation in expansion nor pressure, except when injection occurs of course.

Now for another thing you're going to have to address. Autoignition, 750F is well above the flash point of diesel fuel.
There is no auto ignition whatsoever in the fuel lines. Rest assured this is not just some story telling here, fuels will heat up way above their flash point without autoignition, because of the lack of oxygen!! This is fact!!

I completely agree that better fuel atomization will certainly help efficiency. But you're dismissing a lot of physics to this idea.
[/QUOTE]

Instinctively one is to believe the automotive industry gives us their very best, right?!?! So why are we still consuming so much fuel? Yes HP has increased, but fuel consumption has practically stayed at the same level for the past 80 and more years... .
When you take your one gallon of fuel, diesel or gasoline and look at the amount of BTU it contains and then compare to the enegry you get from your engine, yes of course, after deducting the huge percentage of losses by heath and friction and, and and,.... then still it does not add up!!! We are still burning +30% of fuel in the exhaust in stead of in the cylinders!!!

But I understand there will always be yea and nay sayers. I am simply offering what I have discovered and learned in 50 years and yes done quite some of my own testing on fuel vaporizing, to all here, free to use or disagree.

Best regards,
Jake

 

[patracy]

We're burning 30% of the energy out the exhaust because it's a ICE and we'll, again physics. That's also why turbochargers help with efficiency by turning the lost thermal energy into boost to help airflow.

The automotive manufacturers are trying to increase mileage, because they're mandated to do so. The 2020 and 2021 I own are built with a lot of aluminum to reduce weight. Also my truck is a 3.0L diesel that makes twice the power than my turbo 6.2 and doubles its milage.

A better approach to all of this would be using a extra injection event for cooling and reduce emissions. Effectively one could reduce or eliminate the cooling system volume. And use that wasted heat for more thrust. Also trying to get a modern level of performance out of a 40+ year old engine design is a tough order from its own limitations coupled with the physics to be addressed.

 

[frank8003]

All,

I have been facinated by engines my whole life. Managing fuel consumption has become an important element in my research ever since I was 10y old nd because I could barely aford buying a few liters of gasoline every week for my off-road use 1954 VW Beetle and thus I've been tinkering with engines for ever to make them better... and I keep on doing so at the age of 62. However, I am not an engineer and I do not have any design or manufacturing facilities, but I have had plenty of hands-on and trial and error.

This is the best and final stage of what I have learned and I want to share this here with yall:

• I find the group of folks here in SteelSoldiers the best and foremost helpfull, wise, well-mannerd, and of course there are numerous fellow men in uniform, of any group anywhere on www.
• Further development of these designs should not remain in the hands of a single person, nor get lost or perish.

The information herein can be implemented on GM 6.2 diesel, but can also be used on many diesel engines which has mechanical pressure operated injectors (and also on gasoline engines, see below) . This does not work on electromagnetic or piezo electric injectors as these will be destroyed due to the temperature.

Only fuel vapors burn, all droplets will go out the exhaust, be oxydized without delivering power to the engine, generate soot and ash, emissions, etc... .
Diesel fuel evaporates 100% at 400° celcius or 750° Fahrenheit. I have tried numerous methods for reaching this temperature and one of the obvious methods is by using the principles as found in the Charles Pogue carburettor, which actually makes very good sense: use the exhaust heat, which is definitely higher than 750° F to evaporate your fuel. The problem is however that it takes time before this temperature is rachead in the exhaust and more so, before this heat can be projected, transferred into a fuel vapor system. Also, admittedly, maintaining 750° in the exhaust is not always obvious.

Reaching the vaporising temperature must be very fast, if not instantaneous to be practical and useable on a daily basis. So how do I get fuel vapor quickly? I have been searching for quite a while for an easy, feasible, cost effective, DIY, reliable, ... solution and this is what I found.

The solution is all around us and readily available. Simply use either one (or two) 12VDC or 24VDC and sufficiently heavy LVS (induction heating element), about 2000W, which power 4 or 8 small coils, one for each injector or you can use a smaller but robust LVS mounted near each injector. The fuel heating coils should be 1.5-2" long and centrally positioned around the high pressure fuel injection line and as close as possible to the injector. A temperature switch which opens once 750° F or a little more is reached must be mounted on the fuel line and after the coil to keep fuel temperature near the injectors at a controlled temperature. Temperature variation between opening and closing (=LVS on-off switching) must be kept as little as possible to prevent injector dripping, due to pressure increase caused by temperature rise.

Thus the pulsing on-of cycle of the LVS will allow your fuel to be kept at evaporating temperature in the fuel line. However, the diesel fuel will not evaporate in the high pressure line, since the fuel is under high pressure (below 125Bar but still high nevertheless).

When an injector needs to inject, obviously it receives the high pressure pulse from the IP, the nozzle needle will lift off the seat at 125 Bar and liquid diesel will spray into the pre-chamber cup. This fuel however, will virtually instantaneously vaporize in the hot air medium of the cup, where the surrounding medium pressure is considerably lower then in the fuel line. Because of the complete fuel evaperation, the oxydation of the fuel with air/oxygen will be much better, actually complete.

This results in a total and clean burn of the injected fuel in the cylinder and no "afterburn" in the exhaust, no soot and no carbon emissions, exhaust temperatures will drop. In consequence, less fuel needs to be injected since now all the fuel does the work in the cylinder, which in turn will increase your gas mileage massively.

There are a few things to consider.

• The injector nozzles, of the type, such as on the GM 6.2 and 6.5 engines which have only one single injection opening, with the needle tip protruding are the only suitable diesel injectors for this setup. The protrusion of the needle tip has a cleaning action when moving up and down, preventing the spray hole to get clogged up. Neveertheless, these injectors will require more maintenance, as there will be more carbon build up on and just around the needle tip. No doubt there are a lot more diesel engines using this type of injectors, but mostly these can be found in the older diesel engines, since modern diesels all have multiple spray hole injectors and most are CR, with electromagneti or piezo controlled injectors, of which the elecrtonics will fail in no time, as said.
• If you use e.g. injectors with multiple tiny spray holes, these will very quickly clog up due to carbon, as the fuel starts to burn as soon as it gets past the needle tip and comes in contact with oxygen. So these nozzle types will not work well or only have a short lifespan.
• The LVS will put additional stress onto your alternator and electric system. Count with an extra 30-50A continuous power consumption, so wire accordingly. Providing continuous and sufficient alternator power to the LVS should not be an issue in most cases however.
• A glow plug system will no longer be required, as the fuel will burn instantaneously when injected. But you will still be facing the usual "diesel preheating waiting time". Indeed, once you turn the ignition on, the LVS will start heating up the fuel inection lines and only after the preset temperature has been reached the engine can be cranked. It takes less than 30 seconds of pre-heating before the fuel line is truly glowing red hot, (which is already too high a temp) so no issues there, ask me how I know.
• The temperature in and of the injector bodies, nozzles and needles will obviously increase considerably. Needles may need some "Honing" to assure smooth operation when "hot". Also keep in mind when torquing things down. Cylinder head temperature may increase some due to the "hot injector" bolted in there.
• The fuel flowing into the return line will be hot, too hot for the rubber hoses to handle. You will need to consider copper/metal return lines and no o-ring or any synthetic materials to be exposed to the hot diesel fuel. Anything above ~250° F will kill all synthetic materials, unless anyone here knows of a synthetic high temp seal or hose? A different type of return hose connection on the injectors must be considered.
• The return lines must first run the fuel through a cooler, before this fuel is allowed to return to the IP, fuel pump,.... to avoid damage to IP, synthetic, rubber lines, seals,....
• Where the coil is mounted on the high pressure line, the line should be made of a material which responds well to induction heating, preferably be corrosion resistent and suitable for repeated and sustained high temp heating and cooling etc...
• The glow plugs are to be removed and replaced by non-protruding plugs. The glow plug tips may otherwise be consumed in the combustion.
• The IP idle setting will have to be lowered considerably to reach a normal idle again, which will be with a much smaller injected dosage of fuel then before.
• Also max rpm must be adjusted to stay within limits of the engine.
• Advance may need some retarding, because of the now much more "all at once bang".
• Needless to say that you can use even a wider range of fuels now, for your engine to burn.
• NOx will relatively increase.
• You will have better throttle response and considerably more power and extremely clean exhaust.
• There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that this entire concept is a by long well known secret in the automobile and oil industry! But the above approach is definitely within reach and feasable for any DIY mechanic!!

For gasoline engines, the same principles apply, however:

• Pre-heat gasoline to 210° Celcius or 410° Fahrenheit, to get 100 evaporation. Again, use an LVS and coil to vaporize the gasoline. You will only need 1 point of heating to vaporize the fuel and from there the vapor fuel must be mixed with air in the intake.
• Gasoline injectors will melt down at such temperatures, since these are electromagnetic injectors, so these are not usefull. This system works well with carburettors however.
• You may consider using an LPG type carburettor to mix the vapor with the intake air.
• For best efficiency the amount of gasoline passing through the vaporising coil must be delicately dosed to optimise fuel consumption.

I'm sure there are more things that need mentioning, but off the top of my head this kind of covers the most important ones for combustion engines.

And let's face it, we do not need those electric (toy) cars to save the planet!!

Jake

No doubt there will be more interested forums and groups within SS whom may have an interest in this information.

Gee, 30-50 amps 2000 watts with injectors at 125bar.
This treatise is really cool.

And, where is Kaggevinne?

Top 10 Quickest Mitsubishi AWD Evo - Drag Import News

(Updated Jun 2020)

www.dragimportnews.com

A look at English Racing's World Record holding 7-second Evo 8 making 1400+ awhp

A look at English Racing's World Record holding 7-second Evo 8 making 1400+ awhp

www.boostaddict.com

 

[Jake59]

We're burning 30% of the energy out the exhaust because it's a ICE and we'll, again physics. That's also why turbochargers help with efficiency by turning the lost thermal energy into boost to help airflow.

The automotive manufacturers are trying to increase mileage, because they're mandated to do so. The 2020 and 2021 I own are built with a lot of aluminum to reduce weight. Also my truck is a 3.0L diesel that makes twice the power than my turbo 6.2 and doubles its milage.

A better approach to all of this would be using a extra injection event for cooling and reduce emissions. Effectively one could reduce or eliminate the cooling system volume. And use that wasted heat for more thrust. Also trying to get a modern level of performance out of a 40+ year old engine design is a tough order from its own limitations coupled with the physics to be addressed.

The (~complete) ceramic engines, built in one piece and with virtually 0% heat losses exists and has much better thermal properties than the traditional engines. Virtually no heat is lost, to the point that the cabin heating actually becomes an issue....
Sure thing, but it's not going to come on the market... ever!!

So we all can only do with what we have and what is feasable on a small scale and DIY as much as possible... the above system is within just about everyones reach!!! But it requires preciesely the old style diesel or carbureted gasoline engines, as the modern engines are no longer suitable for this conversion... almost as if it has been done deliberatly to eliminate all possibility for an effective DIY solution.

I am nearly there, just missing a few more parts, but if and when I get things completed, I'll report back and yes, rest assured, I will let you know for better or for worse, of course!! ...

Jake

 

[frank8003]

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[Jake59]

Gee, 30-50 amps 2000 watts with injectors at 125bar.
This treatise is really cool.

And, where is Kaggevinne?

Top 10 Quickest Mitsubishi AWD Evo - Drag Import News

(Updated Jun 2020)

www.dragimportnews.com

A look at English Racing's World Record holding 7-second Evo 8 making 1400+ awhp

A look at English Racing's World Record holding 7-second Evo 8 making 1400+ awhp

www.boostaddict.com

Hi Frank,

... Kaggevinne is a small village in, by now turned nearly completely socialist (=actually meaning communist) belgium.

Not much relevance here, other than socialism will most likely soon forbid or even prosecute me for doing this research and work on my model ultra clean high efficiency diesel engine...

Note 1: the 6.2 injectors are normally calibrated to open and start spraying diesel fuel into the pre-chamber once the line pressure reaches 125 Bar.

Note 2: WIth one of those very cheap ZVS PCBs which run at 120W max, I did some tests on metal fuel lines with gasoline and it takes less then 30 seconds to get the line red hot glowing. The numbers I am giving you above are with a safety margin and slightly overdimensioning, to assure logevity of the ZVS

Note 3: I made a mistake, it is NOT LVS but ZVS induction circuits, my appology!!

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Looks interesting. I have thought about this matter of heating the fuel for a few decades now.

Sometimes a partial solution is a better solution. We don't necessarily need 100% vaporization to get significant improvements. I say that because I think you are underestimating the electrical power requirements and the load that will put on the engine. TINSTAFFL.

But the proof is in the pudding. I''l be very interested in seeing your results. I have to admit I'm skeptical, but curious.

 

[Jake59]

Looks interesting. I have thought about this matter of heating the fuel for a few decades now.

Sometimes a partial solution is a better solution. We don't necessarily need 100% vaporization to get significant improvements. I say that because I think you are underestimating the electrical power requirements and the load that will put on the engine. TINSTAFFL.

But the proof is in the pudding. I''l be very interested in seeing your results. I have to admit I'm skeptical, but curious.

MarcusOReallyus,

We are thinking very much alike!!
In the back of my head I am indeed keeping the option of heating up as much as possible but not necessarily to 750° F in case such may cause unpredicatble or other complications.
Any notable level of fuel preheating will likely translate into an improvement of fuel economy, and a cleaner burning engine, which is the finality.

I am not worried too much about the electrical strain on the charging system, to be honest. After having played with a series of these ZVS systems and various power levels, from 100W to 2000W, it is clear that with very little effort \ input power a ZVS will rise the temperature of a steel pipe in seconds... after all, that is what your wife's induction cooking plate is expected to do!!.

Cheers,
Jake

 

[Jake59]

The systems I'm speaking of use the heating element wire wrapped around the injector lines POST injection pump.

You're asking for a precision machined part that runs at a certain tolerance to be heated through induction to retain the same tolerance. From a machining perspective, that's just not going to work. Also pulsing isn't going to work out given the 6.2's in these trucks (let's say a M1008 ) could be running up to 3K rpm, that means you'd be cycling these induction coils ~60hz. Hardly enough time in between cycles for it to cool/heat. And then there's the timing perspective. You'd want this system to only cycle before the injection event. And off during it (to prevent seizing). And then there's the problem with heating the actual injector before the event to the levels you're speaking about. It's effectively a sealed vessel (from IP, to the nozzle tip). You're asking to heat a fluid 750F and not have expansion? The fluid expansion will cause the mechanical injector to open. Yes, it could be adjusted by having the IP reworked to retard it. But you've also got to address the fluid that left the system from this. Causing the subsequent injection event to be lacking in fuel volume. Now for another thing you're going to have to address. Autoignition, 750F is well above the flash point of diesel fuel.

I completely agree that better fuel atomization will certainly help efficiency. But you're dismissing a lot of physics to this idea.

In addition to your concerns for heat expansion and tolerances, please note:
Sorry, I can only give you the values in metric, but the principle stays the same

• The thermal expansion factor for steel is: 0.0000072.
  Note that this is the value for regular steel.
  Injector nozzles and needles are made of special hardened steel, so the thermal expansion factor will be less.
• To find the expansion, one must multiply the temperature differential by this factor to determine how much the size increase of a piece of steel will be. The temperature differential is: we are increasing the temperature from 90° C as the "normal" operating temperature to 400° C, so Delta t is 310° C.
• The GM 6.2 diesel needle has a room temperature diameter of 6mm exactly.
• Calculation: 0.0000072 x 310 = 0.002232 expansion between 90° C and 400° C.
• Needle diameter after thermal expansion: 6mm x 0.002232 = + 0.013mm.
  This means the needle diameter will have increased by 0.013mm from 90° C to 400° C or 750° F
• We know that with Bosch injectors, the Needle-to-Nozzle body gap tolerance is consistently held to +/-0.5 microns or 0.005mm.
  The needle bore in the nozzle will however also have expanded to a larger size when heated to 400° C, but possibly or likely the needle will need some honing - or perhaps even "valve lapping" to garantee proper operation at 400° C... to be tested as I progress...
• Note that already with a normal cold engine start, let us say from 10° C or 50° F and until the engine fully warms up to 90° C, the size of the needle changes as follows: 6mm x 0.0000072 x 80 = +0.003mm increase.
  This temperature change in itself, nearly takes away the total needle to nozzle gap... so if only the needle was to expand, we would already be seeing numerous needle lock situation in normal engine use... Lucky both the nozzle and needle expand proportionally to the temperature increase.
  In fact, if you were to start your cold engine in an outside temperature of -26° C or -15° F and run it up to normal full hot temperature, the thermal expansion of the needle eliminates the needle to Nozzle gap completely... but in reality no needle-nozzle problems occur under these thermal conditions, because the entire injector assembly thermally expands as it heats up and vice versa of course.

Best,
Jake

 

[Barrman]

Interesting idea. I had a bell ringing in my head that I had heard it before While reading the above post. I had:

What Ever Happened To Smokey's Hot-Vapor Engine? - Hot Rod Magazine

What Ever Happened To Smokey's Hot-Vapor Engine? Well HOT ROD finally has the answers you need. Only at www.hotrod.com, the official website for Hot Rod Magazine.

www.motortrend.com

This engine raised the temperature of the air and doesn’t mention the fuel. Same basic idea though.

 

[Jake59]

Interesting idea. I had a bell ringing in my head that I had heard it before While reading the above post. I had:

What Ever Happened To Smokey's Hot-Vapor Engine? - Hot Rod Magazine

What Ever Happened To Smokey's Hot-Vapor Engine? Well HOT ROD finally has the answers you need. Only at www.hotrod.com, the official website for Hot Rod Magazine.

www.motortrend.com

This engine raised the temperature of the air and doesn’t mention the fuel. Same basic idea though.

Good evening Barrman,

I remember coming across that Hot Rod magazine article very well, I think it was in the early '80s and I actually made a copy and must have it stored here somewhere. I was very impressed by this approach... also because at the time I drove a Chevy Monza, with that same exact engine in it, the Iron Duke 2.5, not a performant engine but pretty solid and reliable.

Anyway, it is with all of those inputs and background such as Smokey Yunick, Charles Pogue, and many other designs that I worked to extract what seems to me as a compact and feasable solution.

It goes without saying that the gasoline solution, using just one primary ZVS and an LPG carburettor is technically the easiest to DIY, but the diesel version is also definitely within our reach!!

Cheers,
Jake

Note to Barrman: In all fairness, all the good help I had received from a number of people here in SS, such as CUCVRUS and others and yourself last week regarding timing the GM 6.2, pulled me across to share with all of you, this information.

 

[wheelspinner]

Hi Frank,

... Kaggevinne is a small village in, by now turned nearly completely socialist (=actually meaning communist) belgium.

I was stationed at Florrennes BE in 1984/85 I loved the people and the country. Sad to hear that it has devolved so far…..

 

[Mullaney]

Good evening Barrman,

I remember coming across that Hot Rod magazine article very well, I think it was in the early '80s and I actually made a copy and must have it stored here somewhere. I was very impressed by this approach... also because at the time I drove a Chevy Monza, with that same exact engine in it, the Iron Duke 2.5, not a performant engine but pretty solid and reliable.

Anyway, it is with all of those inputs and background such as Smokey Yunick, Charles Pogue, and many other designs that I worked to extract what seems to me as a compact and feasable solution.

It goes without saying that the gasoline solution, using just one primary ZVS and an LPG carburettor is technically the easiest to DIY, but the diesel version is also definitely within our reach!!

Cheers,
Jake

Note to Barrman: In all fairness, all the good help I had received from a number of people here in SS, such as CUCVRUS and others and yourself last week regarding timing the GM 6.2, pulled me across to share with all of you, this information.

.
That is really impressive. Funny how going fast on gas was one of the things that Smokey was really good at. I remember too that we used a super fine mist of water into the intake ports on the manifold to actually cool the gas and made more power that way. Nitrous done the same way - not the quickie kit - but directly metered into the intake manifold helped produce more power because it too cooled and made the air more compressible.

I guess that is a measure of your age. Getting that monthly Hot Rod magazine in the mailbox was exciting!!

 

[Jake59]

I was stationed at Florrennes BE in 1984/85 I loved the people and the country. Sad to hear that it has devolved so far…..

I believe my M1009 originates from the Florennes air base... you may likely have driven it there and then..?!?
It seems to have been largely painted yellow as far as I can see underneath the multiple paint layers... would that make sense to you?

Cheers,
Jake

 

[Jake59]

.
That is really impressive. Funny how going fast on gas was one of the things that Smokey was really good at. I remember too that we used a super fine mist of water into the intake ports on the manifold to actually cool the gas and made more power that way. Nitrous done the same way - not the quickie kit - but directly metered into the intake manifold helped produce more power because it too cooled and made the air more compressible.

I guess that is a measure of your age. Getting that monthly Hot Rod magazine in the mailbox was exciting!!

Very correct Mullaney!!!

And just because the intake air should be as cool as possible, I have come up with this ZVS Induction PCB and Coil system to heat up only the fuel, and then release it in the air intake or combustion chamber!!

Cheers,
Jake

 

[wheelspinner]

I believe my M1009 originates from the Florennes air base... you may likely have driven it there and then..?!?
It seems to have been largely painted yellow as far as I can see underneath the multiple paint layers... would that make sense to you?

Cheers,
Jake

The yellow? No all of ours were 3 color camo. Chances are good that I did drive it there (I was in Security Police there) it’s actually why I own one now. Every time I drive it I’m 21 again