Coolant acidity

[emmado22]

All,

I'm trying to understand the coolant PH level stuff. I drained, flushed, and refilled my deuce's coolant with Fleet Charge with SCA, http://www.fleetchargeantifreeze.com/fleetchrg_spec.htm and added water at 50/50 ratio of distilled water to coolant.

My Cooltrack test strips http://www.cooltrak.com/default.asp say ACID CORROSION PROTECTION (RESERVE ALKALINITY UNITS) they come in at a "3" which is Unsat as per the guide on the bottle. I'll take pics of the bottle tommorrow. seems a 6-10 is Ok, as per the bottle.

So do I need to drain some coolant thats in there, and add more water, or more straight coolant???? Next time I'll use the premixed stuff so I dont need to play mad scientist trying to get this all right, but for now, whats the solution? Chemistry class in high school was NOT my strong point.....

The rest of the cooling system is fine. Radiator and heater core was pulled, cleaned, flushed, all new hoses, etc... Everything is good to go expect for the chemistry stuff...

 

[Armada]

Did you thouroghly and completely mix the two by running the truck long enough? What is the freeze point of the mixture?

 

[emmado22]

it's between -10 and -30, and the truck has been run for a few hours, so everything is well mixed...

 

[doghead]

A 1:1 ratio is not going to give you the ph you need. For the best heat removal and metal protection, 50% water and 50% antifreeze is desired. The proper mix is determined by checking the coolant level; -35 degrees equals 50/50. The problem comes when the Ph of water 7.0 to 7.2 and antifreeze Ph is 10.5 right out of the container. A 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze would have a Ph factor of 8.75. This level is too acidic for today's cooling systems. The recommended Ph level should be between 9.8 and 10.5; this level greatly reduces the acid content, that together with electrochemical reaction of dissimilar materials causes electrochemical degradation.
Once antifreeze is added to the system to bring it to the desired -35 degrees throughout the system,then add a pH concentrate while still circulating the coolant to evenly reach a pH of 10.5 throughout the system.

 

[emmado22]

So what do I do, Dog? Drain it out and refill it with the premixed stuff?

Perhaps I was confusing inmmy first post....

I put in 1 gal of the antifreeze, then 1 gal of water, the 1 gal of antifreeze, and so on...

 

[doghead]

About a 60/40 mix should give you a ph of 10. I would think a truck shop or good auto shop should have the correct additives to correct your ph. Do you have pool chemicals? (could probably adjust it with them). Maybe ask your Napa what they have, or wherever you bought your test strips from. What is the PH level at now?

 

[Bill W]

As I understand it 7.0 is neutral Ph, anything below that is acidic and anything above it is Alkaline., Is there a different scale with coolant. I also thought that to bring Ph in you coolant up you add more SCA

 

[cranetruck]

Cooltrak test strips have a limited shelf life and may effect the result. A pH of 3 is very acidic almost like vinegar right out of the bottle, something ain't right.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Sodium Bicarb will raise the alkalinity of the coolant. If it were mine I'd play mad scientist and add small quantities of baking soda until the PH was above 7.6.

 

[doghead]

3 does not sound right to me either. Did you "flush " your engine just prior to this? If so what with and did you "neutralize" it well with straight water afterward? Might try measuring strait coolant and strait water to see if the strips are reading correctly.

 

[cranetruck]

Testing the strips in liquids with known pH is a good recommendation.
Also, how much coolant did you replace, the radiator alone is 5 gallons and its drain will not drain the engine itself, which may also include a heater core (personnel heater)?

Kenny, don't know if you are kidding or not, but that's the kind of stuff we'd like to filter out from the coolant. Baking soda is an abrasive, like in tooth paste....
I say, do it right the first time, glycol, distilled water and additives..

 

[emmado22]

I just flushed the whole system out with plain old tap water... Im going to call the CoolTrak people today and get more info on their numbers...

I removed the rad and heater core from the truck, took off ALL the hoses (even the2 little short PITA ones that very few people ever change), and put the garden hose to the engine for 20 minutes, moving the hose to all openings on the block. There was NO old coolant left in that block, thats for sure.

 

[houdel]

I'm trying to understand the coolant PH level stuff. I drained, flushed, and refilled my deuce's coolant with Fleet Charge with SCA.....My Cooltrack test strips say ACID CORROSION PROTECTION (RESERVE ALKALINITY UNITS) they come in at a "3" which is Unsat as per the guide on the bottle.

A little known fact is that not all brands of test strips work with all brands of coolants! A test strip will give invalid results if it is not the proper test strip for the coolant you are using. Go back to the Fleetcharge site and see what strips they recommend for their product.

 

[cranetruck]

RE: Re: Coolant acidity

Very true Lee. Cooltrack works for gycol/water, figured that's what Fleetcharge was also...

 

[emmado22]

Well, that may be part of the mystery..

As taken from their site.

11. Can I test Fleet Charge to see if the system is "Ok"?
Sure! We recommend the use of a refractometer or a Penray test strip. (Just don't use automotive coolant test strips or hydrometers.)

 

[cranetruck]

That's what you get for messing with the "new" stuff.

 

[emmado22]

Yeah, I guess so.....

 

[rosco]

Go to an equipment dealer - Cat or John Deere, and get a little test Kit & a quart of radiator conditioner. This is not rocket science. Just test the stuff with the strips, and add the conditioner for the desired neutral results. There is some real expensive equipment out there and they don't throw away bunches of gallons of coolant, every time the PH gets off. They don't replace it either. They may filter it (run it through panty hose), add conditioner, and re-use the stuff. Its expensive to buy - its expensive to get rid of too.

I run as sweet a mixture as possible - pushing -60f. That gives maximun rust/corrision protection too.

Lee in Alaska

 

[ygmir]

Bill W:
Ph is a scale from 0-10.
5 is chemically neutral. I think the 7.0 figure you use is in relation to living organisms. that is where they like to be, specifically humans. So, a change from there is acid or base related to our bodies.
This is all, IIRC, of course.........

good luck

 

[houdel]

Can I test Fleet Charge to see if the system is "Ok"?
Sure! We recommend the use of a refractometer or a Penray test strip. (Just don't use automotive coolant test strips or hydrometers.)

Problem most likely solved. Get the correct test strip and try again!

Ph is a scale from 0-10. 5 is chemically neutral. I think the 7.0 figure you use is in relation to living organisms. that is where they like to be, specifically humans. So, a change from there is acid or base related to our bodies.
This is all, IIRC, of course..

ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT!!!! pH is a measurement of how many hydrogen ions are in a solution. It ranges from 0-14. Acids have a pH less than 7; while bases have a pH more than 7, and neutral substances, like water, have a pH equal to 7.

Incidentally, the pH scale is an inverse logarithmic representation of hydrogen proton (H+) concentration. Unlike linear scales, which have a constant relationship between the item being measured (H+ concentration in this case) and the value reported, each individual pH unit is a factor of 10 different than the next higher or lower unit. Thus, a solution with a pH of 5 is 10 times more acidic than a solution with a pH of 6, a pH of 4 is 100 times more acidic than a pH of 6, etc.

Thus, to address Emaddo22's original post, a pH of 3 would be 10,000 times more acidic than a neutral solution! NOT good stuff to have in your cooling system, if the reading were accurate (which it does not appear to be so).

I guess being a PE allows me to spout off on a lot of highly technical topics of little or no practically significance...... Although I guess there was some useful knowledge transferred in this thread.....