Cucv extreme rattle noise

[AZDeuce]

Gentlemen/Ladies:

I know some of you will cringe at this, but the glowplug system has been fried for the last 5+ years on my M1009. Being electronically challenged, I ran a hose from the air cleaner's inlet through the firewall and mounted it next to the ashtray where the lighter would go.

I give it a small wiff of starting fluid, and start her, if I give it a little too much you get a rattle noise, so I have learned to give it enough to start but not enough to rattle.

Been working great for years, but yesterday when I gave it a (LITTLE) wiff and started her, she rattled forever, and extremely loud, my first thought was wow I finally blew the engine, but when I reved the engne speed up, the rattleling would go away.

I had to drive it about 10 miles yesterday, and going down the road I couldn't really tell if it was making the noise, but when I hit a light/stop sign it definitely made the noise.

This morning I planned on changng the oil, so when I started it I gave it the usual small wiff of starting fluid but when it started it sounded like I gave it the whole can!

But yet if I put 3-400 RPMS on it it would quite down, ........BEATS ME!

I moved it on to my concrete pad, and watched all the belts, everything seemed normal, but the noise was so loud and distracting that I couldn' isolate the noise, so I shut her off and checked the alternators and power steering for looseness, but everything seemed ok.

After I changed the oil, and restarted it without ether as it was warmed up, it still sounded like I over fed it with ether. But I didn't use any.

I'm a bit perplexed as usually if something is screaming at you it will usually be self evident, but I can't find anything to pin this on.

I did see the current thread regarding "6.2 Detonation," and some of thoe issues sound like mine, except I believe his sound doesn't go away, it gets louder with more RPMS, mine gets quite with more RPMS.

I may have to pull the inpection pan and check the Torque Converter bolts, but I did that late last year and they were still tight, I'm pretty sure I lock tighted those weasels as I read on SS that they do come loose. Besides I doubt is would get quiter with more RPMS, it would probably get louder.

Anyway I'm stumped and at a loss, my current plan as it's my only daily driver is to drive it until what ever is making that noise gives up the ghost, and leaves me stranded somewhere.

I'd rather head it off at the pass, but I have no idea what/where the pass is at!

Thank in advance for any ideas.

 

[Cucvnut]

No my noise stays the same. mine almost sounds like vavle train chatter.

 

[ranchhopper]

Sounds like the timing is off a bit I had a 1009 you couldnt stand to have the hood open when you first started it the engine rattled so bad. After it got to a certain temperature it would go to normal like the timing backed off a bit.

 

[pigfoot63]

May be piston slap due to worn wrist pins and cylinders, starting fluid in excess is bad
on these parts.

 

[dependable]

Have to admire the farm style ingenuity with the tube for either. My understanding is that either can cause instant damage if any glow plugs are active. Damage can also occur if you use more than a whif of either. even with glow off. Another possibility is that your old glow plugs have dropped their tips into the combustion chambers. Old glow plug tips will wreck the piston wrist pins when if they fall in. Agree with above post, that makes a rattle. May be that other engine noises hide it at higher rpm.

 

[AZDeuce]

Well anything is possible, but the noise just disappears at higher RPM the engine actually gets quiter. That's why I'm so perplexed. The engine noise does not mask this rattle, it actually goes away, and I can here the engine running.

The glowpugs are still in the engine, I pulled them out a couple of yeas ago, just to see if they had swelled up, and they all came out easily.

The wires are disconnected just to eliminate any possibility of them igniting any starter fluid.

I'm going to keep looking but, I have to drive it, so I'm sure if it's important it will break when I need it the most......but at least then I'll know what the issue is.

Hard way to find out though.........

 

[dependable]

This may sound off, because you are obviously know your way around a cucv, if you did not have the warm up timing and throttle advance circuit working, and it got reconnected after all these years...it would have a uncharacteristic rattle for a few minutes. I'll stop guessing now, hard to do over the phone, as we used to say.

 

[firefox]

How do you verify that your warm up timing and throttle advance circuit is working?
Bruce

 

[cucvcan]

Check your flexplate. Its either cracked or you have a loose bolt to the torque converter.

 

[AZDeuce]

Don't know anything about the "timing and throttle advance" circuit.....but when it's cold you press the throttle pedal once and give it a small wiff of starting fluid and she'll start up and idle fast until warmed up........so I'm GUESSING that's ok.

I drove her to work today, if I make it back home, I plan on pulling the inspection plate/pan and check out the flex plate, torque converter bolts. I'm right now leaning toward the flex plate/loose bolt theory. When I drove it this morning everytime I slowed and approached a stop sign or red light, it made the rattle noise while idleing, but once I took off it would become quite. But while at different stop signs it felt like possibly it was coming from the transmission, so that's what I'm going to check next (hopefully tonight).

I'm still perplexed as to why it makes a racket at idle but goes away at higher RPMS, but I've never had a flex plate let go, so I have nothing to compare it against, but hopefully this evening I'll know whether its the flex plate and or TC bolts.

I'll let you know what i find.

 

[cucvcan]

Centrifugal force. As the rpms increase everything tightens up, until it finds the next gear and get really loud again. Am I right? If so I'll bet a donut hole its a broken flexplate. You probably hear it as soon as the starter engages.
If I'm right don't drive it till you get this fixed. I butchered my crank end and had to replace the whole engine as it was cheaper than a rebuild.
My question is why does the flexplate break all of a sudden?? Why is it so susceptible, at least in my truck anyways.

 

[ken]

Any white smoke? A injector drippling can dump liquid fuel on top of the piston. Making the cylinder fire when i shouldn't, slamming the rod into the crank. Test each exaust port with a heat gun. And see if one one more is colder than the others. After the engine is at operating temp.

 

[AZDeuce]

No white smoke. After my drive this morning I'm leaning more towards the flex plate. If I make it home tonight I'll tear into her and see whats happening down there.

Assuming it is the flexplate.......where can I get a new one? Is this a routine item I can get locally through AutoZone or NAPA?

I would think that it would be in my best interest to buy a new one, as opposed to sticking an unknown used one in yhere that may crack again after a couple thousand miles. I just need to know were to look for a NEW one.

 

[transman]

An injector with low "cracking presure"will create a low rpm knock that goes away with higher rpms and fuel demand. At idle loosen each fuel line one at a time . if the knock goes away you have found the culprit.

 

[AZDeuce]

Transman, I never heard of that before, THANKS, if the flexplate isn't broken that will be the next thing I check.

 

[blitzengine]

No white smoke. After my drive this morning I'm leaning more towards the flex plate. If I make it home tonight I'll tear into her and see whats happening down there.

Assuming it is the flexplate.......where can I get a new one? Is this a routine item I can get locally through AutoZone or NAPA?

I would think that it would be in my best interest to buy a new one, as opposed to sticking an unknown used one in yhere that may crack again after a couple thousand miles. I just need to know were to look for a NEW one.

If you are going to need one, you can get a flex plate from autozone for $37.
Pioneer/Flywheel - Automatic Transmission
Part Number: FRA-142

Cheers,

 

[blitzengine]

An injector with low "cracking presure"will create a low rpm knock that goes away with higher rpms and fuel demand. At idle loosen each fuel line one at a time . if the knock goes away you have found the culprit.

I agree with Transman, I would do try this method first.

Cheers

 

[AZDeuce]

I made it home safely, and parked her on my cement slab, went in had dinner, came out jacked her up, pulled the pan, shined a flashlight up in there, and found a severly cracked but still intact flexplate!

I KNOW what I'll be doing this weekend! At least I can drive the Deuce to work!

Blitzengine, I just called my autozone here in bBuckeye, Az and they said that the Turbo400 flexplate was a discontinued item.....but they could get me one for the Tubo700

I'll have to run that number past them and see what they say. Thanks for the information.

And you were all correct in guessing the flexplate, and I was wrong.......but NOW I know what to listen for! So as long as something was learned I guess it isn't a total loss.

Thanks - Az Deuce

 

[transman]

A6.2 flexplate is the same between the two trans. glad to hear that was your problem as its cheaper than the injector problem that I suspected.

 

[watkinssr]

I got mine from Oreilly. They still have them.

While you're there, pick up 4, 4 inch 3/8-16 grade 8 bolts. Replace the bottom bolts on the bell housing with these, and you can slide the transmission back enough to get the flywheel out while keeping the tranny aligned. I just got through doing one of these.