CUCV Starter problems

[Reyracn]

I have a 85 CUCV that the stater goes out once you start it about 20-30 times. When you start the truck the starter sounds like it is grinding and it make a whining noise but it starts. This even happens with a new starter. I have checked to make sure that it is meshing up with the flywheel and it seems fine. Can anyone give me some ideas?

 

[pc3nmcb]

It sounds like there isn't enough clearance between the starter gear and the flywheel you might need to shim it. Just a thought

 

[Reyracn]

Ive tried w/andwith out shims and get the same results.

 

[JB]

Is the flywheel missing any teeth? Or are they worn down possibly?

 

[steelsoldiers]

The way I was taught to check for proper gear mesh is as follows:

1) Disconnect the main starter power wire at the 24V buss bar on the firewall, but leave the solenoid actuator wire connected.
2) Remove the inspection cover from the tranny
3) Crawl under the truck with a paper-clip
4) Have a friend, spouse whatever, turn the ignition key to the start position
5) If the bendix gear is properly spaced in relation to the ring gear on the flex plate, then you should be able to slide the paper-clip between the peak of the bendix gear and the valley of the ring gear. If not, then add or remove shims until the spacing it correct. I believe the manual will actually tell you what gauge of wire to use if you want to get really technical.

Does your starter have the brace on the back of it that attaches it to the engine block? If not, you run the risk of breaking starter bolts, the nose-cone, etc... It can also lead to bad tooth alignment if not properly torqued.

Also, as JB said, check the teeth on the ring gear. If they are worn excessively then you will have too much lash in the gearing and a new starter will do nothing to fix it. I had to replace the flex plate on my 1009 when I got it because several areas of the ring gear were badly worn.

 

[pc3nmcb]

I was reading this topic
CUCV solenoid & starting problems...again
Half way through he described grinding noise in solenoid and what he did to fix. Maybe this will help. This is from his posting:

Figured it out: bad glow plug solenoid. Simple fix. Here are the symptons for future reference:

Turn the key one click, buzzing noise in solenoid, glow plug light dim. Turn the key to start, grinding noise from solenoid

 

[Reyracn]

I tried different shims to get the starter aligned with the flywheel prperly as mentioned above and I still get the grinding noise. Any more ideas?

 

[JB]

As Chris said above. Did you check the front of the starter? there should be a support bracket there to hold the front up. Otherwise it may be moving around eventually it will weaken the 2 main bolts and strip the threads in your block. (This happened to me) If this isn't it I don't have a clue except a bad fly wheel, did you check it?

 

[CCATLETT1984]

also i would change out the main power feed wire from the buss bar to the starter, a bad wire could cause low voltage and that will eat a starter quick. also replace the engine to chassis ground.

 

[beanman1]

hey man check your starter bolts mine is doing the same thing even a slight bent on will do it

 

[beanman1]

ok put new bolts in and still doin it even with out shims the clearance is way to much had my starter guy look at it we checked the nose cone correct part number we too the old cracked 1 that i had and put them side by side new 1 is bigger (shimless starter) so we took the thickness of the shim that came with the oem and shved that much off the nose cone works likea champ and no shims

 

[Wolf.Dose]

The Army dropped the original starter model due to never ending problems and poor reliability.
The new starte number is 6598N which comes with a testing certificate.
I installed that new starter model to my 6.2 l Diesel and so far it works well.
Wolf

 

[Mudstone]

i put in the odiron starter last week... it sounds bizzare gear reduction style. it works great.. and seems to do really well with weak batteries IMO

 

[bimota]

Thanks all for this post - I'm working thru the same issue now. Original starter shim was lost as truck was under resto. New starter grinds and can't turn over motor properly - I even get some type of kick back that locks up the starter and motor. I turn it over manually and then it works again. Starter guys replaced burnt solenoid but grinding and poor performance continues. So I want something solid - Delco units are like $280 at Napa and the eBay and Amazon market is like $98 with free shipping. Would like to be sure and not pay $280 but also pay more than $98. $98 and free shipping is crazy low cost - smells bad.

Suggestions?

 

[Warthog]

I have seen the $98 unit last years and some not even last a week. Almost all new ones are made in China.

New starter bolts, proper shims and support brackets make a big difference.

 

[huggy]

I have had 5 of these trucks M1009's n. M1028 that I have had all the common starter problems that have been discussed on this sight!!! I have NEVER HAD GOID LUCK WITH THEVORIGINAL STARTERS... N once ya hear that nasty grinding when the sarters don't mesh right with the flywheel, ya might as well just stop n get ready to replace the Flywheel!

 

[huggy]

Once it it's bad one time, the damage is done!!! PROMISE YA So, after ya replace the flywheel n use lock tight on the bolts cuz they will come loose, if ya don't. Then DON'T "EVER PUT THE STOCK 27MT ORIGINAL STATER BACK ON OR EVEN A NEW 27MT... I have and it's always a joke!
But, with a little bit of time n not much effort or brains, you can do the "DOG HEAD RELAY CONVERSION" n BUY A NEW 28MT AFTER MARKET STARTER FROM A PARTS STORE OR EBAY. Chinese or not it's gonna work with no shims or pains in the butt And, if ya do double start it by chance with the way these engage into the flywheel, they have NEVER DAMAGED A FLYWHEEL OR "FLEX PLATE" whateverrrr ya want to call it on me. Yes, they don't spin as hard but they work just fine and I live in the Midwest n yes Iowa winters are usually pretty dang cold.

 

[Hasdrubal]

That's a great sales pitch for chinese starters. What a joke. Sorry, man.. but the original 27MT direct drive is the way to go. Its a reliable heavy-duty design. I'm on my 2nd re-build after 11 years. Never had a problem.You have other issues if your starter grinds the flex-plate. The end bearing can wear so much that the armature shaft starts dropping, that causes flex-plate grinding. But, you should have noticed the starter was cranking slower, before that, and rebuilt it. Frankly, to post what you did, is misinformation.

 

[bimota]

So what we are saying here is we don't know as a community what to add to the CUCV Wiki on this topic? Sounds like we need an expert panel to get in the loop and add to the Wiki - people willing to back up what they say. All us green beans trying to survive these resto projects need the help. I'd happily pay for solid backed up solutions advice but get frustrated with misinformation.

 

[huggy]

Whatever! I have worked on a ton of these trucks n they all do it!!! Yeah, the 27MT WORK GREAT, " when they work" but are way too picky about voltage drop n burning solenoids or sticking them HIW ever ya want to say it.... Don't want ya to get to picky on my wording
I have to friends here in two different cities here in Iowa who have been rdbuilding starters n alternators for over 40 years n they both say it, that these 27MT STARTERS WERE JUNK AS 12 VOLT STARTERS N THESE HOPPED UP 24 VOLT ONES ARE EVEN MORE CRAPPY! We had rebuilt them COMPLETELY AND EVEN TURNED A 12v 27MT INTO A 24v starter n they still do the same crap. But, I put new flex plates in the trucks after they got chewed up n did DOG HEAD CONVERSION WITH NEW 28 MT starters n NEVERRRRRR HAD TO SHIM THEM, cuz they don't require any stupid shims, AND THEY HAVE ALWAYS WORKED JUST FINE N NEVERRRRRR CHEWED UP A STARTER BENDIX OR FLEX PLATE. (Even when I accidentally double started the truck). You would have been screwed if ya double started a 27MT, PROMISE YA!!!! No sales pitch here for any starter but I know what I am talking about n got nothing to gain by telling the truth... Just trying to help or stop another person from going through the crap I have of changing flex plates because the instant ya start the truck after installing a 27MT N IT RIPS THEVTEETH OFF THE FLEX PLATE IT SUCKS TO DEAL WITH