CUCV: Won't Start; NO FUEL... How to bleed out air?

[MuddWeiser]

1985 CUCV/M1009 6.2 etc... (all stock electrical)...

Bought it 1 week ago. Changed the fuel filter, and drove it the first week with no problems. Then all of a sudden it got parked over night and would not start the next morning. I figured it wouldn't start because it was cold - but have tried several times since to start and no dice. No smoke - except an occasional PERFECT SMOKE-RING comes out and it doesn't really smell like FLOODED Diesel out the exhaust.

I am pretty sure the cause of my problem is FUEL RELATED. Or rather, lack thereof. I DON'T THINK IT IS GETTING FUEL? I turn the key to the on position and hear the solenoid click on/off, the wait light turns off, then the solenoid goes on/off, on/off... I measured the orange wires at the solenoid and I have 23.7volts. I measured the voltage at 2 different glow plugs. BOTH at right about 22-24volts.

I can open the air bleed screw (or fuel drain whatever it is?) on the TOP of the fuel filter housing and fuel comes SQUIRTING OUT as the motor turns over.

When I changed the filter it went like this: Removed old filter, put on new filter. Cranked motor over for 10 secs. Walked around and opened the air bleed screw (the fuel drain etc...) and then when no more air and a steady stream of gas were coming out I closed it up. Within 30secs the motor fired back up - ran fine for 5 days after (about 150miles).



I think the problem is that I am not getting fuel to the motor. Can somebody suggest all the things that could have happened here?

THANK YOU !

 

[gasser]

Have you tried to 'fool' the fuel system by putting Cetane booster or diesel fuel down the intake? By doing that, you are bypassing any leaks ... see if the engine will run for a few seconds with diesel down the intake.

If you are ballsy, you can get the truck started by using Ether ... but you have to make sure your GP system is disconnected. You don't want your GPs on with ether in the cylinders.

I had similiar issues, where the truck wouldn't start without a shot of Cetane down the intake after sitting for 4+ hours. I thought I had a fuel air-leak or something. Turned out my GP system wasn't working at all. Totally tricked me another other folks - who shall remain anonymous . Even though you are getting volts to the GP themselves, they could be faulty. Have you changed them?
If you do the Ether thing, and it fires right up and stays running ... you may have a GP issue rather than a fuel issue.

Anyhoo, try the diesel and/or cetane booster down the intake to see if you can get it started/running on that. Hopefully that can give you an idea on what to do next.

-graham
86 M1009

 

[mangus580]

Ok, try all this, and report back...

• Turn on your ignition, go to the injection pump. Unhook the large pink wire leading to the pump and reconnect. You should hear a click when you do this. This is the fuel solenoid clicking in and out.

• You said the glow plug solenoid is clicking. how long is it staying on? it should be longer than 2-3 seconds cold

• Grab a test light. Unhook each glow plug, connect the one end of the light to 12+, touch the other end to the terminal on the GP. If it lights, the glow plug is working. Do this for all 8

• With someones help, have them crank the truck while you open the bleeder screw. You should get a steady stream of fuel

Report back on each item, and we can go from there.

 

[MuddWeiser]

Turn on your ignition, go to the injection pump. Unhook the large pink wire leading to the pump and reconnect. You should hear a click when you do this. This is the fuel solenoid clicking in and out.

Is this the FADED RED wire that looks pink - the big fatty with the spade style attachement at the end? I also have a green wire running to my pump under the adjustment screw?



You said the glow plug solenoid is clicking. how long is it staying on? it should be longer than 2-3 seconds cold

Glow plug solenoid has about a 5-7 second interval first time in the morning. Then each additional time I turn the ignition on/off it stays on for 3-4 seconds...

Grab a test light. Unhook each glow plug, connect the one end of the light to 12+, touch the other end to the terminal on the GP. If it lights, the glow plug is working. Do this for all 8

So I clip the alligator clip on my glowplug (to the terminal) and then touch the light probe to the positive side of a battery? Since the batteries are wired in series won't that be 24volts going through the test light? Are there any TRUE 12v supplies under the hood I could go to instead of the battery?


With someones help, have them crank the truck while you open the bleeder screw. You should get a steady stream of fuel

10-4!!! TONS OF FUEL COMES OUT OF THE TOP DRAIN VALVE. Even after the car is shutdown, I can go over and quickly release and tighten the valve and it still has enough pressure to squirt fuel out...


Waiting for clarification on the Injector Pump lead and the Test light 24/12volt question prior to testing those items!


THANKS

 

[mangus580]

Is this the FADED RED wire that looks pink - the big fatty with the spade style attachement at the end? I also have a green wire running to my pump under the adjustment screw?

Yes, I think it is actually supposed to be pink. Its the big fat one. the green wire is the one that handles the high idle, and cold advance.

Glow plug solenoid has about a 5-7 second interval first time in the morning. Then each additional time I turn the ignition on/off it stays on for 3-4 seconds...

Ok, that sounds a little shorter than mine, but I think it also depends on ambient temperature.

So I clip the alligator clip on my glowplug (to the terminal) and then touch the light probe to the positive side of a battery? Since the batteries are wired in series won't that be 24volts going through the test light? Are there any TRUE 12v supplies under the hood I could go to instead of the battery?

It will be easier to connect the alligator clip to the battery. Hook it on the positive terminal of the front battery. This will supply you with 12v.

10-4!!! TONS OF FUEL COMES OUT OF THE TOP DRAIN VALVE. Even after the car is shutdown, I can go over and quickly release and tighten the valve and it still has enough pressure to squirt fuel out...

Ok, just for clarification the top valve is the bleeder valve, its not a drain

 

[MuddWeiser]

Okay below is the results of your suggestions:

Turn on your ignition, go to the injection pump. Unhook the large pink wire leading to the pump and reconnect. You should hear a click when you do this. This is the fuel solenoid clicking in and out.

When the pink wire is unhooked I didn't hear it click - putting it back on it clicked. I repeated the procedure to double check - definite clicking. Sounds like a solenoid.



You said the glow plug solenoid is clicking. how long is it staying on? it should be longer than 2-3 seconds cold

Wait light stays on for 6 seconds then turns off - but the solenoid continues to cycle on/off for a good 15-20 seconds after the light turns off.




Grab a test light. Unhook each glow plug, connect the one end of the light to 12+, touch the other end to the terminal on the GP. If it lights, the glow plug is working. Do this for all 8

I couldn't get the wire pulled off the spade connector on the glowplug for fear of snapping the small spotweld. Do you have ot do anything(push a little tab, stick a screwdriver in a slot?) to the black connector or just pull it straight off? can I pull on the green wire or will it ruin the connector? I proceeded to do your test with the green wire still connected.

Don't have a test light. If I did the light would turn on. I have a voltmeter. I get 12.3 volts when doing your test.



With someones help, have them crank the truck while you open the bleeder screw. You should get a steady stream of fuel.

Fuel comes out the air bleed forcefully - (jet stream). IS THIS THE ONLY BLEED FOR THE WHOLE FUEL SYSTEM?



IS IT POSSIBLE MY FILTER IS CLOGGED?

What wire do I disconnect when I want to "prime" my fuel system after I swap in ANOTHER new filter?

Are there any other possibilities? I read somewhere the gas cap for gastank was a problem, I opened and closed mine. The seal is good.


Thanks for your prompt responses.

 

[mangus580]

I couldn't get the wire pulled off the spade connector on the glowplug for fear of snapping the small spotweld. Do you have ot do anything(push a little tab, stick a screwdriver in a slot?) to the black connector or just pull it straight off? can I pull on the green wire or will it ruin the connector? I proceeded to do your test with the green wire still connected.

Don't have a test light. If I did the light would turn on. I have a voltmeter. I get 12.3 volts when doing your test.

I suspect that with all the wires hooked up, this will give you false readings. For example, if you have 1 good plug, it could show that all of them are good with the wires all hooked up. Not sure about a locking tab on these, hopefully someone else can pipe up with this.

 

[85-m1028]

If you have a volt meter set it to ohms and put one point on the glow plug spade and one point on the side of the plug "the part the socket goes over" it should read about 1.5 ohms. If you get no reading then its probably dead plug, I wouldn't worry about breaking the connector that attaches to the spade of the glow plug you can get new spade connectors at the autoparts store cut the old one off and crimp on a new one 1/4" should work for most plugs, just make sure its insulated.

 

[MuddWeiser]

OKAY FOR SURE I HAVE 2 DEAD GLOW PLUGS. I pulled the harness (all the glow plug feed lines) and tested each glowplug individually - only tested 4. 3 were dead - no light - the other 1 had 12.3 volts so I assumed it was good and that is what they all should read.


WHAT REPLACEMENT PLUGS DO I GET FOR BONE STOCK 6.2L ???? I get 24volts at the glow plug harness (the glowplug would get 24volts...)

 

[gasser]

I had a hunch it was more of a GP problem; your symptoms where just like mine only to find out that my GP's weren't even coming on.
I posted in your other listing on what plugs to buy.

-graham

 

[gasser]

Also, can you get the truck started and running on a shot of Cetane boost or Ether? Remember, if you use ether, don't use a lot and make sure there is no power going to your GP relay.

-graham

 

[derby]

I do not claim to be a diesel mechanic ,and am not farmilliar with your truck.but on my farm my tractors start without any start assists(ether,glow plugs)at 40 F and above.i am not shure of your cliamate there. you did not say what the temp was.how did the filter look?were there slimy deposits,how long did the truck sit before you bought it,diesel can break down as soon as six months.and the lower the fuel gets in the tank ,the more chance you have of picking up water,dirt ,wax or some other crud that has ben waiting to ruin your day.do you have a secondary filter or strainer right at the injection pump?have you cracked the injector lines to see if fuel is getting there(use caution can be 2000lbs or more pressure use rag around fitting )or remove your glow plug and see if there is fuel coming out crank engine for 5 sec with throttle part way.if you have fuel,compression,and air all at the right times it should run.check your exhaust for leaking or fuel soaked joints,or for blockages and restrictions(that tree stump you ran over or the old banana in the tail pipe trick)also does your engine oil smell strong like diesel?use extreme caution putting anything in the intake side of your engine. too much ether can pop your intake or head gasket and raw fuel worked well on the old gas farm truck, but can cause you major trouble on a diesel.diesel is meant to be injected as a fine spray in to a precombustion chamber where it swirls around and from friction and pressure it detonates.fuel drawn into the combustion chamber threw the intake can cause a liquid slug,and can bend a rod or break a ring. i hope my rambelings can in some way help you out! good luck!

 

[Dieselsmoke]

What part of Tahoe you in? I've got to meet one of our contractors in South Shore next week and am in Truckee all weekend. Be more than happy to come help you get it running....unless it's snowing again like it did today

 

[mangus580]

Derby, the 6.2 diesel in the chevys will NOT start without the glow plugs unless its like 90 out. Nature of the beast...

 

[K10A]

take out all your gps .
unplug the pink ip wire .
crack all the injetors .
crank till fuel seeps from injectors.
put a temporary clear line on the fuel return to check for air.

 

[BKinzey]

I had 2 problems, bad glow plugs and less than 2 gallons of Diesel in the tank. On a u-turn it sucked up air and then the bad glow plugs kept it from starting.

For glow plugs you can look on eBay. Even if you don't buy 'em you know a decent price.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

get the plugs from www.ssdieselsupply.com

 

[MuddWeiser]

HERE IS THE LINK TO PICTURES:

ftp://steelsoldier:cucv@72.47.20.138

She Runs. New set of Glow Plugs and had to rewire the feed wire to the solenoid. New feed comes from front (+) lug of front battery straight to solenoid. I now get 12.7V at the solenoid, 12.7V at the glow plug harness, and after I put the new GP's in - the truck fired right up.

DieselSmoke: I am in Truckee. I got it running but could still use a 2nd opinion on the tranny issues im having - or if enough are around, might be fun to meet up and convoy around the lake!!!

 

[CCATLETT1984]

seems like a lot of us our having issues with the resistors on the firewall, wonder if anyone knows a source for NOS ones.

 

[paraclete comes]

im taking this for action also, I had my m1009 just not start on me one day. I had redone the fuel spin on mod and pretty much all the lines. So i assumed the mechanical pump went out since its what came on the old girl. Threw in a block off plate and an electric I had sitting around, no joy on cranking. So later today I will try the tips you guys listed thanks! Will report back see if I can get her started.