Cummins Powered 5Ton Trucks

[WillWagner]

Just a heads up for all the people out there that have the NHC. After a mess of research trying to find parts for Wreckerman, I have run into some good and bad news.
Good news is that from Cummins, cylinder kits are still made and available at around $300.00 for the piston, liner, liner packing, wrist pin and clips and rings.
Bad news is that they are NOT compatable with the old stuff, meaning that the new pistons CANNOT be mixed with the old ones due to being 3 ring instead of 4 and a different weight. You can put all 6 in and all will be fine, but you can't do just one, ya gotta do all 6.
There are aftermarket ones available, I have personally had bad experiences with Clevite, so I do not like them.
IMHO, all of the people out there scrappng the NHC should remove the pistons. Rings can be had fairly easy, rods can be changed out to the big cam type and bearings are readily available, but the pistons are getting to be made of unobtainium. The pistons you take out can be cleaned and reused without an issue.
Just my

 

[papabear]

I seem to remember someone recommending to Wreckerman that he keep his old 250 engine.
Oh heck...that's right...that engine fell prey to the infamous Offroadfabworks..and got scrapped!

I agree Will...if it ain't required for a core turn in...keep that rascal cause you're gonna need something off it sooner or later

 

[m16ty]

I've thrown away atleast a pickup truck load of them it the past. Whenever you buy a liner the piston comes with it so I never kept them. I may still have one or two laying around. I'll look.

Will, Do you know if pistons from say a NTC400 would work? I'm almost sure I have one of them.

 

[WillWagner]

NHC 250 vs NT400, nope, different. I'm tellin ya, the innards for the older engines are getting as rare as hens teeth. We, the people in the hobby, NEED to keep these parts to help each other and keep the hobby alive. Heads, pumps...but the people that know thes are going away too.., compressors, oil coolers and the external parts can and most likely will continue to be rebuilt. The innards, pushtubes, cams, crossheads, injector links, lower followers, upper rockers and the SMALL parts will start getting harder and harder to find. I'm just sayin' we need to cubbyhole some of this stuff instead of scrapping it. I've seen it in the past. Cummins will stop making the replacement parts. In a traning vid 15 or so years ago, it actually said that planned obsolessense is one of the GOALS of CECO. It helps promote their continued survival as an engine manufacturer by creating a need for consumers to buy a new product.

 

[wreckerman893]

Will...thanks asssisting my parts search for the 250.
I was at a trucks parts place today and they had a bunch of NOS Cummins parts but Murphy was dogging me and they had everything except what I needed in respect to the 250.
I did manage to get an air tank and fuel cap for the 915.

 

[WillWagner]

Still persuing the obsolete parts guys, but it doesn't look too promising. There is another place, S&R sales. I think they are in In. I'll do some more digging tomorrow

 

[OPCOM]

creating a need for consumers to buy a new product.

Dang it I don't need some goode ole boys "creating" a "need" for them to put their hand in my pocket. Things cost enough already.

where is the correct "vomit" smiley?

that training tape would be good youtube fodder.

 

[Desert Deuce]

Will, that really is some valuable info!! Thanks for posting this.

Will & Richard, try Jacks Gov Surplus down in Tucson. I know he's got 250's on the ground and maybe in cans. He may have the parts as well. I know they had a 250 apart about a year and a half ago. I believe it got a piston or two, maybe it was from a donor that's on-site.

Good luck and thanks again Will.

 

[steelsoldiers]

That's definitely good and bad news. Is there any cross-over between the NHC-250 and the 855 Cummins engines used in civi trucks? It seems like there has been a bunch of different 855 versions, NA and TA, small cam and big cam. I'm just wondering if pistons could be sourced from a truck salvage yard engine... if you could find one without a million miles on it

 

[Armada]

Thanks for the heads-up Will!! When did they stop using the 'old' style, and would there be any way to identify by the engine number which ones it had? Would recent depot rebuilds maybe have the new style already? I'm sure there's no way to know, but thought I'd ask.
Thanks again for your digging!

 

[m16ty]

That's definitely good and bad news. Is there any cross-over between the NHC-250 and the 855 Cummins engines used in civi trucks? It seems like there has been a bunch of different 855 versions, NA and TA, small cam and big cam. I'm just wondering if pistons could be sourced from a truck salvage yard engine... if you could find one without a million miles on it

Chris, The NHC-250 is a civilain engine used in a bunch of civi trucks but it hasn't been used in many years. I think that's what Will was getting at, Cummins is phasing out parts used with older engines. Yes, old NHC-250s can be found in junk yards mostly in '60s and early '70s trucks. I don't know if the CPL number is the same as the military version though or whether it would make any difference on some parts.

 

[WillWagner]

Thanks for the heads-up Will!! When did they stop using the 'old' style, and would there be any way to identify by the engine number which ones it had? Would recent depot rebuilds maybe have the new style already? I'm sure there's no way to know, but thought I'd ask.
Thanks again for your digging!

The original number, an OLD one and starts with AR-XXXX, supercedes about 6 times to a 3 million part number, that supercedes to the Tri-Tech number. Like I said, THOSE are still being made, you just can't mix the three and four ring pistons due to wt. differences. How Cummins works is the engine is built to a CPL, Control Parts List, Critical Parts List, just depends on how old the guy you are talking to is as to which term is used. All those CPL's are puilt with specific performance parts, pistons, injectors, cams...although there are only a hand full of different cams for the SC engine..timing codes, turbos, blah, blah, blah. If you mix and match different CPL parts, you end up with an engine that won't work as it is supposed to. It can smoke..black, white, grey..have chronic low power, chronic heating issues, a power band like a CR125, wipe cams out every other week, all kinds of goofy and very annoying issues, not to mention an engine that isn't EPA compliant...like that matters . Yes, I know the 250 doesn't have a turbo! There is no way of knowing what pistons are in the engines after rebuild, but, there are P/N's on the top of the piston. IIRC, all the 4 ring ones can be intermixed...it has been a LONG time, but I think i'm correct. You can't intermix the small cam and big cam rods due to wt. differences. Bearings are the same.

 

[mckeeranger]

The original number, an OLD one and starts with AR-XXXX, supercedes about 6 times to a 3 million part number, that supercedes to the Tri-Tech number. Like I said, THOSE are still being made, you just can't mix the three and four ring pistons due to wt. differences.

Do you know if the weight difference is great enough that they can't be machine balanced?

 

[WillWagner]

Dunno if you could do that. REmember, these arent little gassers. Tehre is alot of pressure in the cylinder. All the meat is around the pin bores and around the area under the crown. If enough material was removed, it would most likely cause a piston failure. I know the wt. difference is signifigant, but I do't have numbers. Out old parts guy had a stroke Monday. The other guy won't know where to look. Let me see if I can remember how to look that info up.

 

[Desert Deuce]

Very sorry to hear about the Parts Guy.

 

[jwaller]

I know if I have any issue with my 250 it's getting a 400 or more.

 

[Csm Davis]

this would be why about 150 pistons got junked at drmo a few months ago, sorry but i only got 6

 

[Armada]

Just a heads up for all the people out there that have the NHC. After a mess of research trying to find parts for Wreckerman, I have run into some good and bad news.
Good news is that from Cummins, cylinder kits are still made and available at around $300.00 for the piston, liner, liner packing, wrist pin and clips and rings.
Bad news is that they are NOT compatable with the old stuff, meaning that the new pistons CANNOT be mixed with the old ones due to being 3 ring instead of 4 and a different weight. You can put all 6 in and all will be fine, but you can't do just one, ya gotta do all 6.
There are aftermarket ones available, I have personally had bad experiences with Clevite, so I do not like them.
IMHO, all of the people out there scrappng the NHC should remove the pistons. Rings can be had fairly easy, rods can be changed out to the big cam type and bearings are readily available, but the pistons are getting to be made of unobtainium. The pistons you take out can be cleaned and reused without an issue.
Just my

OK, it happened. Murphy found me. Great way to end a deer hunting trip.
I'm hoping we have some parts engines squirreled away out there. I'm in need of 1 piston. What came out is a Clevite 4-ring design, p/n 224-2342. Can anyone help? TIA!