D298ER mep005 "smokin"

[weisskr]

I have Just breathed life into the latest genset and so far I have had to replace many things on it to get it up and running. One of the items was the injection pump and not sure if it is related to the problem.
Anyhow, I got it up running and makes power fine and the engine runs great! The engine makes a lot of smoke and smells of unburned fuel or at least I think it smells like fuel but it could be motor oil? I think it could be either a valve seal leaking by or a vale seat not sealing up. So I have decided to pull the head and send to the machine shop and have it hot tanked, valves grinded, valve seats grinded, new seals installed and have the head pressure tested.
The question I have is does anyone out there know if an injector or the pump would cause this condition? The only fear I have is the rings could be blowing by to cause the condition.

Any thoughts out there?

Kevin

 

[Isaac-1]

If the injector pump is installed out of time it can smoke a lot, also did you have the injectors flow tested when you replaced the pump?

 

[jbk]

have you tried to adjust the valves yet? i was having pump trouble also, freed it up for now but would like a lead on one if i can. were did you find yours? how much? but as ike said the pump is probly out a little. jim

 

[PeterD]

IMHO, many do this, especially if unloaded. Did you have a good load on it? When cold mine smokes (smells of diesel) and I know that in the past it wet stacked (cylinder number 1 mostly).

I'd suggest getting it under load (10KW if you can) and run until it warms up and see if the smoke 'goes away'. I'm thinking it probably will. (BTW, when warm out, my set smokes much less than when cold.)

 

[weisskr]

Well, The pump was removed from a running set and I dont recall it smoking any. Now it did seem like the smoke was less when it was warm out. I have not loaded the gen up yet since I have had it running.
The head is off and will be at the machine shop come Monday and hopefully I can eliminate the top end as the culprete. The exhaust ports were heavy with carbon so maybe after a hot tank bath and some new seals it will fix the problem. If not I will be suspect of the pump or the injectors. I have not had the injectors flow tested but they were heavily carboned up. I was able to take a scotch bright pad to them and clean up a little.
Kevin

 

[patracy]

Once you get it buttoned back up, make sure to place a load on it. Best way to do that is with simple space heaters.

 

[Isaac-1]

Did you have someone that knows what they are doing install the pump? Alignment of the injection pump is critical to it being in time, it is not a simply bolt it up and its automatically right. I also suspect wet stacking problems here, an hour or two under 80%+ load might clear up a lot of the problems. In the case of the injectors you generally see 2 types of problems, reduced fuel flow from clogging, or increased from the springs in the injectors being weak. One thing you have not mentioned, what color is the smoke, white, black or blue?

Ike

 

[weisskr]

The smoke I have been seeing is a grey kinda white smoke on start up and then changes to a darker color after it is up and running. As for the installation of the pump when you remove the pump I found that the shaft is slotted similar to a flat head screw driver. When I removed it I found a mark on one of the slot of the pump shaft and the found a mark on the recieving end of the gear of the engine side and those two were matched when I removed it. I then installed the the two marks of the new pump and it does not have any problem starting or running. So are you thinking that the two marks could be 180 degrees out of time and still allow the machine to operate?
It just seems to me that the smoke is greatest on start up and then again on heavy throttle that would indicate bad valve seals maybe?
I have the head off and sending it to the machine shope this week and I am seeking a place that will perform a flow test on the injectors just to eliminate any problems and to help the performance of the machine. I did find a lot of carbon build up on the exhaust ports of the head so all of the top end work is not wasted.

Hmmm?

Kevin

 

[Isaac-1]

I am no big expert on diesel injection pumps, however that keyed slot will get you close to correctly timed, but there is still some roational variation in the final locked down position the pump is placed in. It is normal for diesels (particularly older ones) to smoke upon throttle increase.

Ike

 

[PeterD]

The smoke I have been seeing is a grey kinda white smoke on start up and then changes to a darker color after it is up and running.

IMHO, this may be normal. Remember these engines don't have glow plugs, don't have a heated air intake, and so are temperature sensitive. As well, they are incredibly old technology, and not nearly as efficient as newer diesel engines.

As for the installation of the pump when you remove the pump I found that the shaft is slotted similar to a flat head screw driver. When I removed it I found a mark on one of the slot of the pump shaft and the found a mark on the recieving end of the gear of the engine side and those two were matched when I removed it. I then installed the the two marks of the new pump and it does not have any problem starting or running. So are you thinking that the two marks could be 180 degrees out of time and still allow the machine to operate?

180 out and run. Not likely! The main issues is the adjustment of the IP on the mounting bolts which can affect (effect?) timing.

It just seems to me that the smoke is greatest on start up and then again on heavy throttle that would indicate bad valve seals maybe?

Again, black smoke on throttle application is not unusual. Do check your air-filter (maybe try a test run with it off) and make sure it is still passing enough air--that will do this. On startup, absolutely you will get smoke.

I have the head off and sending it to the machine shope this week and I am seeking a place that will perform a flow test on the injectors just to eliminate any problems and to help the performance of the machine. I did find a lot of carbon build up on the exhaust ports of the head so all of the top end work is not wasted.

Hmmm?

Kevin

I found a lot of sludge and carbon on my #1 and #2 (D-19 engine. I suspect the first two cylinders are cooler due to the fact that they get water from the radiator first... A good (hour or two) full load run to get to a good hot temperature will clean a lot of the wet stack stuff out of the passages and exhaust manifold.

 

[refloyd]

Hello,

There is a plate on the side of the fuel pump that when you take it off and the the engine to number 1 cylinder TDC there will be to lines that line up perfectly. If they dont then you are a little bit out of time and that will cause some smoking. Also on the original pumps the shafts didnt have a slot or keyway, they had to be timed the way I just described.

The first time I changed one of these pumps out it took me several tries to get it right because since there is no keyway the shaft will sometimes turn a little when tightening the nut down.

 

[weisskr]

Just an update on the situation..... I received a call from the machine shop yesterday about the head and they explain that at least four of the valves need replacing, all valve guides need to be replaced, and all the springs will need replaced. I did not ask how far out of tolerance the items were so I am not sure if this could contribute to my problem. So I will completely go through the head and after it is installed I plan to try and time the pump a little and I think I should be able to get a hold of the "smokin" problem.
After reading some of the responses of this post I think the head was a small problem in the matter and the real problem was the timing of the injection pump. Although I am not mad at going through the head because now I know what I have now. This machine should be able to go another couple thousand plus hours without problems.
Would like to check with everyone to find out if there is another source for parts for my machine other than Hercano Propulsion? They are treating me well but I would like to make sure that I am getting the best price is all.
Kevin

 

[weisskr]

Just an update on my situation: The machine shop has found at least half the valves were worn and all the guides were out of spec and all springs were needing replaced. Almost all of the seals were worn and needed attention also. Total price from the shop for labor was 375 bucks. The shop seemed to think that this head needed enough attention that it could have been a large part of my smokin problem. Parts were 320 bucks, lets hope things get better with this poor little head?

Kevin

 

[PeterD]

The parts price seems reasonable (labor is not bad either, valve guides are a PITA to do...) When I rebuilt my D198 (4 cyl) head last summer, it took about two hours to do, but I didn't have to replace valve guides. Parts in my case were just the gasket/seal kit (so less than yours), but overall that price you give seems to be about right for the amount of work being done assuming they do the job properly.

 

[weisskr]

Update- I have found the time to work on this machine again. I have installed the rebuilt head and fired the machine up. The machine did smoke as much as when I tore it apart. I did make an adjustment to the injection pump, rotated it aprox 5 degrees + or - and it cleared up the smoke and ran like a champ. Probably did not need to rebuild the head but now it is and I think I should get many more hours from this machine. Thanks for the help from everyone!

 

[andyindy]

Just curious, how many hours are showing on the clock? I realise the meter might have been changed, but in light of the bad valves and guides, trying to get an idea on engine life. Andy....

 

[weisskr]

This machine has about 3500 hours on it from what the clock indicates. Hopefully I get as many if not more from it.

Kevin