detroit locker on m1009 front diff

[res0wc18]

anyone hear put a detroit up front in their blazer? Or had one put in?

 

[steelsoldiers]

I was going to have a shop put a Detroit up front, but a couple of the guys encouraged me to go with a limited slip like the Detroit TrueTrac instead. They said the locker would snap u-joints and axle shafts with 35" tires, especially when turning in the rocks. An Air Locker would work because you could turn it on and off selectively but that's a lot of bucks to put into a 10-bolt. A cheap way to go would be a Lock-Right. It uses your original open carrier so you can install it yourself without worrying about having to reset the gears. It's still a locker so you run the same risks to the axles shafts and joints. I had good luck with the Auburn HD limited slip. It was easy on the drive-train and was much tighter than an open front end.

 

[DMgunn]

I wouldn't be too afraid of the Detroit with up to 35s. As long as you put full-circle snap rings on your u-joint caps, that will eliminate the cause of most breakage, and if you don't have the discipline to avoid the nasty combination of full throttle and full lock, you could always turn the stops out a bit. The beauty of having the front locked up is that you can simply unlock the hubs, and all your new-found handling irritations (wet pavement, dry pavement, etc) go away until you need it again. A rear Detroit will rear its ugly head in your short wheelbase toy when you least welcome it. Try pulling a trailer on icy curves once.
I agree, though, that a tight limited slip is a better choice almost 100% of the time, unless it is a dedicated crawler, in which case you've got the wrong axles anyway.
I haven't had good luck with the Lock-Right, although they do stand behind their warranty. The need to fit inside the carrier obviously limits the area of engagement for the teeth, and I've personally stripped probably three of them completely.

 

[steelsoldiers]

Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front diff

unless it is a dedicated crawler, in which case you've got the wrong axles anyway.

True, a set of 1008 axles would do the trick nicely.

I haven't had good luck with the Lock-Right, although they do stand behind there warranty. The need to fit inside the carrier obviously limits the area of engagement for the teeth, and I've personally stripped probably three of them completely.

Good point. Forgot to mention that.

 

[res0wc18]

RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front diff

yes some truck axles would be nice but unless you all know where to get some around here id be fighting through local junkyards to no end. These axles are popular with the lesser educated crowd and so they are hard to get, unless you know where to get some cheap?

 

[steelsoldiers]

RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front diff

No leads on axles, sorry. The Dana 60's usually sell to the Jeepers, etc... for $1200-1550 so I know what you mean.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front diff

you should be able to get a d60 front for around $700-800 if you look for a while.

 

[steelsoldiers]

RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front diff

Yeah, but it'll be slap wore out and need $500 worth of ball-joints, u-joints, carrier bearing, brake rotors, calipers, etc... I shopped for a D60 for a while when I had my M1009 and there were some real turds out there.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front diff

Yeah, but it'll be slap wore out and need $500 worth of ball-joints, u-joints, carrier bearing, brake rotors, calipers, etc... I shopped for a D60 for a while when I had my M1009 and there were some real turds out there.

No ball joints to worry about, and kingping rebuild kits are cheap.

rotors are $40 ea. calipers are prolly good.
ujoints are $65ea for genuine spicer.
I'd replace the hub bearings anyways, cheap insurance.

biggest factor is making sure it has the gears that you want to run, so you dont have to swap out the carrier.

 

[steelsoldiers]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front diff

Ball-joints in the Ford HP D60. I drive a Furd so I had ball-joints on the brain.

I'm sure there are a few decent D60's to be had out there for less than a grand, but when I used to hang out on CK5 all the time there were countless stories of guys getting that mythical "cheap" D60 in a barn and then having to pump $4-500 in parts into it.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front diff

Ball-joints in the Ford HP D60. I drive a Furd so I had ball-joints on the brain.

I'm sure there are a few decent D60's to be had out there for less than a grand, but when I used to hang out on CK5 all the time there were countless stories of guys getting that mythical "cheap" D60 in a barn and then having to pump $4-500 in parts into it.

Only the newer 97+ iirc ford axles have the ball joints.
craigslist is great for finding stuff like that. my buddy sold his front and rear matching set (rear even had disc brakes) for $1200.

 

[steelsoldiers]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front di

1992-99 F350. $1200 is a screaming deal! Maybe the prices have come down since a lot of the people who were running D60's have moved on to breaking Rockwells.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front di

Less educated crowd?

Guess I don't understand that comment.

The less educated crowd in my book are the guys on half tons trying to run big tires in the mud pits and wondering why they keep breaking stuff with their 400hp big block...



Consider a Detroit TruTrac limited slip up front. It's gear driven with no clutches to wear out like the other brands of LS's.

That said I wouldn't touch the front. You have a ticking time bomb of a rear limited slip so I'd address that and the gearing before I spent money on a front traction adder.

 

[steelsoldiers]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front di

AJM, I agree with the TruTrac as you can see from my post above.

Here's an interesting blurb I found on OffRoaders.Com about the Gov-Pop. It gives a good description of how it really works.

Gov-lock(G/L) Used by General Motors in 73 & newer trucks that came with an option locking / limited slip differential. It was used in 7.5", 7.625", 8.5", 8.6", 8.875" 12 bolt truck, 9.5", 10.5", and now in the new 11.5" differentials. The smaller designs are fairly weak and the 8.5" and 12 bolt truck designs are especially weak. The 9.5" and 10.5" 14T units are fairly strong and will hold up well to towing and moderate abuse. The Gov-Lock is designed to act as an open differential during normal driving with no force being applied to clutches. This fact that no force is applied to the clutches keeps the clutches from chattering during normal every day driving. When either wheel slips and spins approximately 100 rpm faster than the other a governor assembly senses the difference in speed and activates a ramp system. The ramp system causes the clutches to engage and transfer power to the wheel with traction. One other feature of the Gov-Lock is that it will not engage at vehicle speed above 30 mph. This no lock-up feature keeps the vehicle more stable at higher speeds where both wheels spinning could cause an inexperienced driver to spin out or slide off of the road. This is a great design in theory and works as designed in a stock vehicle that is not abused. The problem is that most of us modify our trucks and many of us abuse them. When this unit is asked to deliver under extreme conditions it tends to self-destruct. The force generated by the ramp system that is used to lock-up the clutches works well, except that same force has to be contained by the case and the case is not always up to the job.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front di

The funny part is they seem to fall apart with age as well. I personally know two people who had them blowl apart under well maintained but decade old vehicles with stockish tires. Neither vehicle was wheeling at the time.

I lock everything and drive carefully.

 

[DMgunn]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 front di

Chevy and Dodge D60s are much cheaper than the Fords. More plentiful, for starters, but also much less desirable because of their low pinion. Ground clearance at the driveshaft suffers, and also strength, to a point, because the gears contact on the "coast side" under power. Of course, driveline angles are more severe. Also, just about all the OEMs have gone to driver's side front outputs, so the Ford is just the natural choice, esp. the '78-79 version with the narrower spring spacing.

"Less educated crowd"? Maybe less educated in golf and winemaking. Some people just have different interests. Try not to judge them - or at least use some punctuation if you are trying to appear educated yourself.

Yes, the "Gov-Pop" is a great concept, but I think one of the big issues is slow engagement. By the time it locks, the spinning wheel is at 14,000,000,000 rpm (since so many people are unable to resist full-throttle in a spinning situation), and the engagement is very violent at that point.

 

[steelsoldiers]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009 fron

By the time it locks, the spinning wheel is at 14,000,000,000 rpm (since so many people are unable to resist full-throttle in a spinning situation), and the engagement is very violent at that point.

So true. My 1009 gov-lock committed suicide whilst I was pulling donuts in a muddy field. It still worked OK in a straight line, but going around corners it went pop, pop, pop The little weight from the gov-lock and pieces of spider gears were found in the bottom of the diff. It was ugly, but it failed because I abused the pee out of it.

I understand the 14BFF model is quite a bit stouter, which is not surprising considering how much stronger the rest of the diff is. I have an open-carrier 14BFF sitting in my shed waiting for the day when I get a new CUCV. It'll get a Detroit.

 

[res0wc18]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: detroit locker on m1009

wowza! i was gone on vacation sorry. what i meant was what some of you already know, rednecks in half ton chevy's that have broke their 10 bolts many times with their boggers and have finally got some correct information and the they buy the decent junkyard axles and beat the piss out of them to start the cycle all over. are the 10 bolt 8 lug version fronts any stronger? What about the 14 bolt semi floater?

 

[AJMBLAZER]

The 8 lug D44 or 10 bolt is no stronger than a 6 lug version. Every part aside from the wheel mounting specific ones is the same as the 6 lug version.

The 14SF is a good rear axle. It's only downside is that it is, obviously, semi floating so if you pop out a c-clip your rear tire and axle go for a walk. It's about 75% as strong as a 14FF and a good replacement if you get a deal on one and are going 8 lugs or if you can find one of the 6 lug versions and want to run not so big tires and keep your 6 lug front.