Deuce as a tow-rig? Am I crazy?

[ecostruction]

Poor ATC. All he wanted was some feedback from some of us with our experiences and instead has to put up with this square off. hobie, just reading your posts it seems to me that you aren't much of a deuce fan. Which is fine. But this is the deuce hot rodding and mod forum. Ya kind might expect people in this forum to push the deuce.

ATC: as has been stated, there are advantages and disadvantages to owning a deuce and thus using it a towing vehicle. If they were that bad for towing, people wouldn't do it. I tow with it and while a 2000 F250 Ext Cab 4x4 with a 7.3 would be great, the pocket couldn't handle it along with the fact that I need to be able to moblize equipment in some pretty nasty areas. Deuce works great in that situation. Sucks to get passed by everyone on the highway, but you get used to it. I towed one deuce home with another so that's 13k lbs on the back and while slow up the hills at about 40 mph max, I was able to easily hit 50 on the flats and because it was on the hook, I took it easy. Could have hit 55 with ease.

Just judging from your posts, while the deuce is not going to be perfect, and i'm sure you realize that, if you did decide to purchase one, I don't think you would ultimately regret it. This whole thing is for pleasure anyway, you'll have fun just owning the deuce.

 

[rmgill]

I have a more complete trip report up in the Road Trips section with more metrics on drive time and distance and such. I was pressed for time so I didn't do a stop for a Cat Scales to check exact weights. The big difference over the last trip with the dingo was the smaller weight of my Honda on the trailer vs the Daimler. The honda weighs under 2000 lbs wet so the trailer and deuce didn't even feel it.

 

[hobie237]

Poor ATC. All he wanted was some feedback from some of us with our experiences and instead has to put up with this square off. hobie, just reading your posts it seems to me that you aren't much of a deuce fan. Which is fine. But this is the deuce hot rodding and mod forum. Ya kind might expect people in this forum to push the deuce.

Actually, I LOVE the deuce. I'd LOVE to be able to justify owning one (thought I made that clear, several times over), but I'm already up to my ears in projects and don't need more. I know that this is a deuce section, and therefore the responses will be pretty much pro-deuce (although not all of them have been), but I think it's a good idea for prospective buyers to get both sides before they jump in with both feet. It's a pretty common disease on forums- an inability to see beyond their focus vehicle(s).

 

[TBigLug]

ATC- For what it's worth, I say get one. Worst case scenario, you can usually sell it for almost what you paid for it if it turns out not to be for you.

 

[TommyG45]

I was in somewhat of a similar situation but different in the fact that I wanted the deuce for the farm.

Actually, I will be honest, I was just looking for a way to justify buying one, and this was a great excuse.

Short story, I love the deuce and will never part with it, I justified buying it as a low cost solution to help out around the farm with the big stuff.

I sold my old F250 to make room for it, actually plenty of room but just didn't want to have 5 vehicles registered and insured.

Now, havng it for a short time, it's loud, uncomfortable, rattles, vibrates, strong arm steering, you just can't park in anywhere, it doesn't lock, hard to manipulate unless your on the go, wipers suck, 55 MPH top end, NDTs suck in the snow, all the normal deuce stuff.

What it will do is haul a butt load of hay, wood, pellet feed and fuel, six yards of mulch in one shot. (big stuff)

Every OTR trip in the deuce is planned, why - pre trip inspection, tires, engine oil, transfer case, transmission. Quick brake test, pedal feel, ebrake and so on. Fluids all checked. Tools are inspected prior to make sure they are all still there as the box has no lock.

IF you drive it for two hours at a time, it wears on you and your passengers.

There have been several times I could have used the deuce to do something but opted not to based on the destination, roads, traffic, and so on.

In my honest opinion, you just don't jump in and go. I am not saying you can't, but it isn't like driving an F250/350/450

I am looking into an NPR HD or equiv, something a little more civilized for regular use

Buy a deuce for the love of the vehicle, if you end up using it for other things, thats a +

If your buying it because it's cheap, and it can do the things you spoke of, you may get mixed results and feelings.

I am in no way shape or form sorry I purchased my deuce, I get a significant level of enjoyment out of it, plus I love this fourm !

I hope this provided you with a different prospective.

Best Regards

TommyG

 

[ATC]

Thanks again for all the replies (both helpful and not...lets me see both sides of the story).

Just to make myself clear, my biggest concern is the reliability of the dravetrain (Engine, tranny and T-case specifically). Creature comforts and the like are a moot point, as my '85 Toyota is pretty rough as well.

It takes forever to start and warm up in the cold (needs carb rebuild), rides worse than a brick going down stairs, has major air leaks in the cab (ie: cold in winter, hot in summer....no A/C and minimal heat), very loud (exhaust dumps under my seat), Manual steering, leaks everything, and will barely do 60mph on flat ground with a tail-wind (seriously ).

Sounds like I already have a Deuce...but in a much smaller package

 

[ATC]

Well I met "rampli" today to check out and test drive his M35 he has for sale. Very nice truck he's got. I have never driven, or even rode in one before, but was very suprised at how smooth everything was. It rode better and was quieter than my 'Yota (thanks to the muffler he installed). It seemed underpowered to me, but I really have nothing to compare it to. I just figured it would have a little more get-up-and-go. Is this the norm? It runs smooth and sounds great with no smoke however...

I'm just concerned about running 20-25mph up hills while towing (or empty...but I was in 5th). 35-40mph would be suitable for me. Hmmmm....decisions, decisions...

 

[yellobronc]

It isnt a race truck. You get used to the slow travel. I have traveled many roads in my F250 and the duece and am suprised in how much scenery I have missed while driving the F250. Although you are passed a lot, the looks you get usually make up for it in a hurry.

I pull many steep grades at 29 MPH and am not always the slowest. They all seem underpowered....not really, just not zippy, they have plenty of torq.

 

[rmgill]

The speed is a function of the gearing. That is very low. You could hook 20 4x4s on a trail up to a deuce with enough weight in the back and pull them all. They're QUITE stout for their size and engine power. Again though, set it up right, get a pyrometer, set the IP correctly and you'll have more get up and go, but be watchful on the EGTs.

 

[Alex400]

The speed is a function of the gearing. That is very low. You could hook 20 4x4s on a trail up to a deuce with enough weight in the back and pull them all. They're QUITE stout for their size and engine power. Again though, set it up right, get a pyrometer, set the IP correctly and you'll have more get up and go, but be watchful on the EGTs.

Has anyone increased the size of the exhaust on a deuce? maybe to a 4 or 5 inch header/turbo back would help decrease the EGT's and make it less susceptible to high EGT's

 

[TBigLug]

Has anyone increased the size of the exhaust on a deuce? maybe to a 4 or 5 inch header/turbo back would help decrease the EGT's and make it less susceptible to high EGT's

I've often wondered about his myself. Never seen an M35 with a big ole 6 or 7 inch straight pipe...

 

[Flea]

I couldn't see going too much larger on the exhaust on a non-turbo making much difference. You would lose exhaust velocity, and that might drop torque accordingly.

For a turbo, I don't know if you would get too much more out of it; if you managed to get another 2-3 psi out of the turbo, I would imagine the intake charge temps would start getting a bit higher, and the added pressure could get close to compromising the head gaskets.

That being said, this is all speculation, and it could be the magic key to 250/500 out of the old multi.

 

[hobie237]

Larger exhaust should help turbo spool if nothing else. For a non-turbo engine, the solution for more power is a turbo. If equipped with a turbo and power is still insufficient, a bigger, better turbo can be substituted, in which case the freer exhaust to improve spool is greatly necessary to mitigate the lag of the larger turbo, and/or a variable vane turbo could be employed, at additional expense, or multiple sequential turbos, one to supply low-lag boost in the low RPM ranges, and another to get spooled up and feed the engine when little brother runs out of steam.

This is all contingent, however, upon the limits of the engine, and I'm not sure what the old multis could handle in terms of boost, power output, etc. Pushing the engine harder, of course, opens the door to additional failures and maintenance expense, which is likely why the Army elected to go with a lower-output motor that was (theoretically) operating well within its limits, and make up the difference in hauling capacity with deep gearing. Logical enough for the Army's usage (low speed off road heavy hauling), less so for a street driven vehicle.

 

[KaiserM109]

I cannot speak to the legal issues, but I can tell you about towing a Bronco from Ft. Riley, KS to Denver, CO., it went great! I appologize in advance if I am repeating something someone else said on this thread; it is a bit long and I'm at work and couldn't do more than skim it.

The biggest issue when towing a vehicle on a towbar is how well does the towed vehicle caster. If you have left the tires, alignment, etc original it usually works well. I have logged lots of miles pulling Jeeps, Broncos etc on short tow bars, the kind you see folded up on "hunting buggies". From the pic's above, I doubt that you have done anything to adversly affect it; the only thing is that moving your wheels outward will increase the 'scrub radius' a bit, no problem.

I would suggest that you use a pintle instead of a ball because you may be towing into an off-road spot where the Bronco will twist a good bit. You can get pintle adapters at trailer places for about $100. That is what I built my bar to tow my '69 Bronco. Mounted one way it has a 2" ball or a 3" pintle eye if mounted the other way. I found out the hard way at Ft. Riley that the deuce takes a 4" eye. I had to grind the pintle on the deuce down to make the trip home.

I made the tow bar 5' long so that it would not scrub as much on tight turns. It also made it much less likely to jack knife when backing.

I have a receiver hitch that EXACTLY matches the frame on the back of my deuce and I plan to mount it. It will wind up a little hign, compared to civilian hitches, but I already have a drop hitch because my Jeep J20 mount is high.

RECAP: DO IT! Make your tow bar long and use a pintle.

 

[Alex400]

I couldn't see going too much larger on the exhaust on a non-turbo making much difference. You would lose exhaust velocity, and that might drop torque accordingly.

For a turbo, I don't know if you would get too much more out of it; if you managed to get another 2-3 psi out of the turbo, I would imagine the intake charge temps would start getting a bit higher, and the added pressure could get close to compromising the head gaskets.

That being said, this is all speculation, and it could be the magic key to 250/500 out of the old multi.

I agree with you on the N/A engine.

Well thinking about it, the deuce has a 3.5" exhaust and the engine is around 475 c.i (I think that is close) That is the same size exhaust that the 5.9 (359c.i.) Cummins uses in the dodge pickups. Actually 3.5" i think is the stock size for most factory diesels.

One of the first upgrades most diesel guys do is the exhaust. the flow and reduction in back pressure allows the exhaust to flow more easily away from the turbo, which would allow more boost and lower EGT's. At least that is my understanding.

 

[ATC]

Now, there was a bolt sticking through the floor under the throttle pedal on this truck. I just noticed it when I was climbing in. I'm not sure if it is limiting the pedal travel, or is still allowing 100% throttle input...but it is there. It's definately something I'll look into.

The forklifts at work have this type of "governor" on them, and while still allowing them to get to full speed/redline...it does take a slightly longer time to get there.

I would add a pyro and turn up the fuel to the max level I'm comfortable with too.

 

[pevrs114]

ATC,

I live in Farmville, I'm familiar with the route you're planning on taking (460 to 60) and I know where you're headed, although this year will be my first trip to Bodacious personally.

I'd say a deuce will do just fine in terms of traversing the roadways. I've driven to Roanoke via 460 many times, and I've driven M35's, M800's, M900's, and M1000's (and M1009's, M1008's, M998's, M1025's etc) on 460 many times as well. In fact I think anyone who's ever been in the VA National Guard has driven MV's on US460.

I'm also a 4 wheeler, I own a 1980 CJ-7 and an M1028 CUCV. My buddy has an 85 F250/350 hybrid (F250hd with D60 front and F450 leafs).

I'd say a deuce will do you great for the trip, and an M109 will provide the perfect camper shelter for when you get to the bog. However, if your group goes up to GWNF or Shoe Creek/Crabtree Falls, a deuce will be a bit more hairy on some of the roads there. Certainly not undoable, just a bit of a white knuckle drive, mainly for the turns, as there isn't much drop in elevation on most of those roadways.

I'd say go for it, they're sweet vehicles. I'm contemplating getting one myself to make a tow rig out of, but I'd want to swap on a modern crewcab body (heresy, I know), with power steering mods and a 6BT/NV4500.

What are the specs on your bronco?