Deuce matchmaking

[cattlerepairman]

After lurking for a while, this is my first posting. This is a great web site and I have read a lot.

I would like for those that have considerable experience with Deuces to suggest what would be best for me and talk me into or out of stupid things.

• I like MV and would like to own and drive one. I have served (but not in the US) and driven MV's (but no M35).
  I have been driving tandem trucks, mostly fire service related, for the last 20 years.
  I think that the 2 1/2 ton is the ideal size.
  I am 6ft3in and hope I can get comfortable in a Deuce...
  I do not need a show queen but I am not looking for a workhorse to run into the ground.
  I want to be able to drive the truck regularly ('cause it's fun) and use it to haul stuff for the house (at least that is what I pretend).
  
  I have never owned a full size truck.
  I am mechanically capable, but not a trained mechanic. I worked on turbo diesels. I can pull and replace half shafts, swap a clutch, do brakes...you get the idea. I can fix things but I am not looking for a salvage and restauration project at this time.

Up here, North of the border, the M35 is rare. The Canadian variant is a license-built M35A2/A3 (dare I say "bast*rd") from the early 1980'. These are still in service and not being surplussed at this time. I would therefore need to get my M35 from the US.

- GL is out because I am not a US citizen and most of the trucks cannot be exported
- I can buy private or from a vendor
- I want to pick it up and drive it home

Easternsurplus has caught my eye; my impression is that they have Deuces in acceptable condition and pick well what they buy.

Here are the conclusions I have reached:

- I am unsure as to how useful a regular cargo bed is, especially if it is not a dropside; I am eyeing to convert it to dump. If I had the cash, I'd zoom in on an M342. I want to be able to haul soil, gravel etc. Yes, I searched and read articles on the conversions. I still do not know whether the bed frame is sturdy enough or needs to be beefed up for dumping. I do know that the rear bumperettes and hitch have to be lowered.

- I understand the "original" sprague type (and I am not sure I want the headache), air shift fronts are plenty, but what about the manual front wheel drive engagement? It seems to be less common. Can it be used in all gears, shifted on the fly? Is a manual engagement a "turnoff" compared to an air shift?

- I want a winch, a cab heater and a hard top

- 1C sound aside, is there a marked driveability difference between the LD and LDT? It alsmost seems as if it was more important to upgrade to super singles than to worry about turbo or naturally aspirated.

- what should, realistically, my budget be? I know - the sky is the limit and perhaps this question is stupid (one can drop 35k for a fully refurbished M35 from Memphisequipment..).

If you have read my posting all the way to here - thanks! Now, keep it coming.

 

[rockman]

northern deuce

Cattlerepairman, I have had a M35A2 cargo version without dropsides for 8 years. i have hauled 2 to 4 tons of dirt, sand or mulch and 2 cords of firewood with the racks on. just last weekend,I hauled 5,005 pounds of topsoil and shoveled it off in about 30 minutes. Getting material out of the bed is easy if you a a little bit fit.

within a couple of year, I bought a heater ($75), bought a project truck ($550) for the winch and parts, and small changes since then. You can get a good solid truck at a reasonable price so check the ads and get one.

Bill

 

[motorolanut]

RE: northern deuce

Well Said!!!!

 

[cattlerepairman]

Thanks, rockman, for sharing your experience. Sounds reasonable.

Ok, what about non-turbo versus turbo driveability? The turbo seems to add a bit of oomph at the very top of the rpm band, but is it a buy/do not buy issue (sound preferences aside)?

What about manual front axle select versus air shift? Can they both be shifted "on the fly" or from a standstill only?

 

[houdel]

The air shift can be shifted on the fly, as can the transfer case.

The only problem with a Canadian purchasing a Deuce is that the seller would have to be the second owner since it was sold by the US Gov't. The first buyer, either a private party or a reseller like Eastern, Memphis, Oshkosh, et al, have to submit an End User Certificate (EUC) to complete the purchase. The EUC is an agreement between the buyer and the Gov't which includes a provision that if the vehicle is ever resold, "The property will not be sold or otherwise disposed of for use outside of the United states or to non-US Citizens/Nationals in the United States" (exact quotation from the EUC). There is a provision to allow resale out of the US or to non-US Citizens/Nationals, but that requires an export license and approval by the US Department of State. Not an expensive hurdle, but the paperwork is a PITA and approval can be an iffy thing to get.

Therefore, if I (or a commercial reseller) sell a truck we got directly from the US Gov't., we essentially have to sell to a US citizen or go through the pains of trying to get approval for an export sale. However, if I or they sell a truck to citizen "A", the chain of control of the EUC is broken and citizen "A" can sell the truck to anyone he chooses since citizen "A" was not a party to the original EUC.

The other thing to consider once you buy a truck in the States is how you can legally bring it into Canada at get it titled or otherwise documented there. I assume Canadians frequently purchase vehicles in the States and bring them back to Canada, so I would imagine there is a process for doing so. But you may want to find out before you plunk your cash down on a Stateside Deuce.

 

[Recovry4x4]

The exception to Lees statement are the GSA deuces. Usually somewhat civilianized but often a fair deal. No EUC or export restrictions on those sales.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Yes, I have that angle covered. Import into Canada is easy enough, due to the age of the vehicle. If the truck was plated in the US, it really is a non-issue.
As you stated, it has to be a vehicle that can be legally sold to a non-US citizen; this is something the seller has to bear in mind as there is no way for me to know whether a seller is the first or second owner, after the government.

Thanks for answering the front end question. How about turbo versus non-turbo driveability?

 

[houdel]

there is no way for me to know whether a seller is the first or second owner, after the government.

How about turbo versus non-turbo driveability?

First issue is not your problem (you could always ask first), except in the case of purchasing from a primary commercial seller (i.e., Eastern, Memphis, et al). IF the seller was the primary purchaser from the government, and IF they ask your citizenship status, and IF they know the regulations and follow the letter of the law, they will not sell a truck to you. However, if none of the above is true (they were a repurchaser from the primary purchaser, don't care about your citizenship, or are unaware of the regulations), then they will most likely sell you the truck. Once you have the truck and title in hand then you just do what you have to do to bring it home. The US Gov't is NOT going to track you down and demand you bring the truck back to the states. H***, they can't even keep track of US purchasers selling surplused F4 Phantom jet components to Iran!

Second issue is a non issue. Depending on what TM you trust, the non turbo vs turbo engine horsepower difference varies between 0 and 10 HP, a difference you will not be able to feel. The turbos were added NOT to increase HP, but to reduce visible smoke emissions. Non turbo engines smoke a lot, turbo engines smoke a little. The only difference you will notice, IMHO, is that smoke = unburned fuel. This may translate to more dollars (either US$ or CAN$, you figure the currency conversion) literally going up in smoke. How much I cannot quantify, but if you really want a turbo truck but can only find a non turbo, the turbo is a very simple add on.

Actually, haven driven the non turbo trucks while in the military, and owning a "C" turbo truck now, the non turbo trucks are a more pleasant drive as they were equipped with a muffler while the turbo trucks have a 31/2" straight through exhaust. In the non turbo trucks I could actually speak to and hear my co-driver; in my current Deuce I have to wear hearing protection lest I destroy what little is left of my hearind!

 

[nf6x]

Regarding the turbo sound, there are both "whistler" and "non-whistler" trucks, depending on which kind of turbo is on the engine. The whistlers have a very loud turbo whine (much louder than the turbo whine you might hear from typical commercial turbo diesels), while the non-whistlers don't make much audible turbo sound at all. I haven't driven a non-turbo truck, but folks say that the power boost from the turbo is too small to feel. As stated above, the turbo was added to reduce visible smoke, in order to make the EPA dudes happier.

Regarding "manual front axle select versus air shift": Air shift is manual front axle select in the M44-series 2.5-ton trucks (including the M35A2). The two options available for the deuces are sprag type (which automatically engages the front axle when needed) or air-shift (where the operator manually engages the front axle with a little lever-type air valve on the dash).

Also, it's "sprag", not "sprague". It refers to the sprag type one-way clutches in the transfer case; it's not somebody's name.

The air shift can be engaged on the fly. Whether the truck has a sprag transfer case or an air-shift one, the front wheel engagement happens in the transfer case, and the front axles and driveshaft spin all the time (unless you add on aftermarket Selectro hubs).

In both types of transfer cases, the case has two ranges, with synchromesh for both ranges. The transmission has synchromesh for 2nd through 5th gears, but not for 1st gear. Some folks will downshift from 2nd gear/high range to 2nd gear/low range when approaching a parking space, but I personally find it easier to double-clutch into 1st gear/high range rather than bending over to push down the transfer case shifter.

I don't know if a sprag type transfer should be considered a "headache". If it's not broken, it just works, and you don't need to think about it except that you must always shift into 1st gear after being in reverse to change over the sprag direction, even if you will be driving off the line in 2nd gear. This is true on all deuces with sprag transfer cases, where the shifting linkage between the transmission and transfer case is mechanical. Even if you get an air-shift deuce, you'll see a little shaft that moves in and out of the top of the transmission at the rear. A sprag type truck would have a linkage between this shaft and the transfer case.

The M39-series 5-ton trucks all have sprag type transfer cases (there's no manual engagement option), but the shifting linkage from the transmission to the transfer consists of a pair of poppet valves on the transmission which drive an air cylinder on the transfer case, rather than a mechanical linkage like the deuces have. The 5-ton trucks also need to be shifted through 1st gear after being in reverse, just like the deuces with sprag type transfers, but they make a soft little "pfft-thunk" sound when you shift into 1st or reverse.

You might consider a 5-ton instead of a deuce, if you happen to run across one that you like at a good price. They're bigger, but they're not much bigger.

I don't have any experience with dump beds to offer you.

Good luck finding your new truck, and welcome to the forums here!

Hmm, it seems that most of the Iltis vehicles in North America are hiding up in Canada. I wonder if you might want to trade a nice Canadian Iltis for my nice US M35A2C, so I would have somewhere to install my German radios (we'd just pretend it's a German Iltis)? I can always buy myself another deuce later... they're as common as dirt up here! Oh, waitaminute... I got that truck from GL, so I'm not supposed to sell it outside the US. Drat!

 

[cattlerepairman]

I wonder if you might want to trade a nice Canadian Iltis for my nice US M35A2C,

....yes, yes, yes, YES!!!!

I can always buy myself another deuce later... they're as common as dirt up here! Oh, waitaminute... I got that truck from GL, so I'm not supposed to sell it outside the US. Drat!

OHHHHHHHH.........AND I ALMOST FELL FOR THAT ONE! lol


Thanks for the background info; thanks to this site, the helpful people on it and reading many, many...did I say MANY?... ads, I have learned a lot. I also downloaded the operator's manual and read that. I believe in doing my homework first before I jump into putting down the cash.

Getting an Iltis is absolutely no problem. A nice drive-home-and-enjoy one runs for about $4000 CDN (which is almost $4000 US...whistle, whistle...)

 

[nf6x]

So, anybody in the US wanna buy my deuce, and then sell me an Iltis for the same amount later... wink, wink, nudge, nudge?

 

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

I am not sure of the part of the Great White North you are in but there is a place in the northern tier states that sells military vehicles and parts I think it is in Montana or Idaho. Someone here will know I just don't have it as one of the favorites here in Korea I had at home. If they are close to you that might be a possible source for you.

 

[steelsoldiers]

You might consider a 5-ton instead of a deuce, if you happen to run across one that you like at a good price. They're bigger, but they're not much bigger.

Here's a picture of my 923A2 5-ton next to Gilbert's M35A2 for size reference. The 809-series sit just a couple of inches lower. I happen to think my truck is quite sporty, but if you've never owned a large truck before, you'll be shocked. I don't know about Canada, but here in the states there have been SS members who have had some trouble with licensing issues because of the GVW of the 5-tons. Just some food for thought. Good luck!

 

[rockman]

Idaho Motorpool

Northern truck dealer....


http://www.idahomotorpool.com/


course you can always go GSA...and sell what you have left...

Bill