Deuce Rear Hub Runs Hot

[gringeltaube]

Hey, glad if it helped!

Actually the only reason I had posted bearing#s was for someone "really interested" to look up their exact size in the catalogs.....
Now, if I had only suspected that it would cause that much trouble, by suggesting obsolete parts... sorry but I just couldn't avoid LOL...

It's that I would never buy a NEW cup to be used as a tool...! Instead, I do keep a box - not too far from my hydraulic press, containing the wildest collection of used cups and cones from every imaginable source. More than often that stuff comes in very handy, used as dies; or spacers, or expander - or installer tools, etc. And for solving problems like this seal I just pickedout what came closest and eventually turned/ cut on the lathe, down to the desired size.
You have heard it before: reduce - recycle - reuse..!


G.

 

[silverstate55]

Either way, I appreciate your help with the cup part numbers...the cups, bearings, and parts I have on hand are for much smaller vehicles (1-ton pickups and smaller!), so I needed to go out & purchase these. I don't mind, as it makes saving the future labor of having to change out seals and clean up that nasty greasy mess each time worth the cost of buying cups new to use as tools!

If someone does what I did and purchases the cups to use, then I thought it might be helpful to list an alternative for the one that is now listed as "obsolete." I'm sure it didn't look obsolete to you when you found it in your parts bin & discovered how well it fit over the seal!

I tried making a homemade one from some leftover parts out of my destroyed rear Deuce axle, but it failed miserably....so I resolved to just purchase the cups new, and have a complete set on hand for modifying the outer seals when needed. Much better now!!

I have an older lathe, it needs to have the motor rewound & rewired, and a little TLC applied to get it running again...it was my Great-Grandfather's and is in good shape for its age.

Thanks again!

 

[CommoChief]

Greetings All...I have a perplexing issue I sure could use your help with. One of the rear hubs on the
Deuce has a very warm hub after even short runs. We torn the hub down, repacked the bearings (with
high-temp grease, no noticeable wear markings on the bearing or race), reinstalled the hub and received
the same results. We then replaced both bearings and races with new, packed bearings. Again, the same results. We checked the hub where the brake shoes are located thinking it may have been a dragging brake however that area is cool to the touch. The remaining hubs are warm after a 30 mile run however this particular hub is much warmer.

Any thoughts.....??????

Thanks in advance....Bill

 

[simp5782]

What is the temperature showing with the IR temp gun? Would verify the actual temp vs the others before chasing anything. Rear axle hubs will run slightly hotter then the front tandem hubs due to the weight the bogie uses while driving. Loaded in the bed the bearings should have about equal temps between the 4 rears.

Did set the bearings load to spec? Or did you do it the old timer way? Tighten the nut, spin, feel for tightness in the bearing till its good then back off a quarter turn and install everything else?

 

[CommoChief]

Thanks for your timely response....I don't have an IR thermometer (may have just found another reason to get one) however going by touch it is much hotter than the other 3 rears. We have used both methods - we used the TM spec of torqueing the inner nut to 50 ft/lbs and the outer to 100-200 ft/lbs for the old bearings but used the "by touch' method for the new bearings as 50 ft/lbs on the inner nut would barely allow the hub to turn by hand.

With both methods we spun the wheel while tightening.

 

[simp5782]

verify with the IR gun. it is best it also helps determine other failures building up heat you can't hear or feel while driving especially in a deuce.

 

[CommoChief]

Thank you....I see that many others have had the same issues and it look as though that cheap seal between the outer bearing and the nut is the culprit. gringeltaube has pictures and an explanation in his response in that thread and I will try that this weekend - removing the outer seal, going for a ride and check the temps. If the temp is not as hot then I need to either find some OEM seals or modify the poor quality controlled after-market seals.

 

[cattlerepairman]

It is easy to go a bit overboard, especially when one is somewhat detail oriented. How hot is "hot"?

Here is my suggestion: If you go for a high speed drive, about 30-45 min, (highway is best so you are not on the brakes all the time) and then check the hubs and you can leave your bare hand on the "hot" hub for longer than 10 seconds (count out loud), then you are ok. Yes, the one hub might run warmer and, yes, outer seal friction is a possible reason. Unless the hub overheats to the point of grease liquification and subsequent bearing failure - at a temp where you cannot leave your hand on the hub, trust me - it is nothing more than a warm hub.

Over time, the assembly tends to "settle" a bit as well and the difference between hubs will be less and less.

I am not advocating sloppyness or not caring. I am advocating for seeing things in perspective.

 

[simp5782]

Your hand sensing 7 to 10 degrees warmer is very noticeable. Are bodies detect hot and cold differently and even a slight temp difference seems alot

 

[CMPPhil]

Hi Bill

Getting an IR thermoeter is a very good suggestion. To this I would add one question and one suggestion. First the question which hub is running hot. Now to the suggestion start a log book with temps of important assemblies wheels, hubs, transmissions etc. gives an intersting set of bench marks.

Cheers Phil

 

[Lovetofix]

The IR thermometer should be on the short list of tools to carry for any large truck, FMV or not. I once saved a drive line u-joint and have discovered other potential failures by just pointing that thing at any critical or moving parts every time I fuel up while waiting for the tank to fill. It can even alert you to a tire that is failing internally before it flies apart. If your memory is failing like mine then make a list of the “normal” temperatures like others suggested and when something spikes check it out before it lets you sit.
As to the hub that is running hot. I had the same thing on my 1972 M817 when I bought it. One rear hub running 100-150 degrees hotter than the other three. When I went through all the hubs for a repack and seal change that “hot hub” was the only one that had an outer seal that was not cracked where the rubber is molded to the metal. After putting in the replacement seals they were all running hot, around 250 degrees after just 20 minutes, so I just tried to take it easy and not make long, fast runs till I could figure it out. Until one day last week I had to get a load of gravel 50 miles round trip and I decided to just see how hot they would get since I am planning to open them back up to replace the brake cylinders. The one hub got all the way to 370 degrees! (I have 560* grease in them) Then just yesterday I went on a 180 mile round trip and had 14,000 lbs in the bed and was pulling a trailer weighing 15,000 lbs and the hubs never went over 170 degrees. I don’t know what happened but I think the seals just needed to get broken in.


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[orren]

Sometimes if the cork plug is missing or leaking rear end gear oil will get mixed in the wheel bearings and wash out the grease.
Make sure cork plug is OK and don't fill the rear end too full; maybe about an inch below fill hole. Also, check axle pressure relief
to make sure it is clear.

Greetings All...I have a perplexing issue I sure could use your help with. One of the rear hubs on the
Deuce has a very warm hub after even short runs. We torn the hub down, repacked the bearings (with
high-temp grease, no noticeable wear markings on the bearing or race), reinstalled the hub and received
the same results. We then replaced both bearings and races with new, packed bearings. Again, the same results. We checked the hub where the brake shoes are located thinking it may have been a dragging brake however that area is cool to the touch. The remaining hubs are warm after a 30 mile run however this particular hub is much warmer.

Any thoughts.....??????

Thanks in advance....Bill

 

[Floridianson]

I really can not believe that a rubber seal would heat up a hub. Bearing pre load or weight on the axle would make more sense to me.

 

[simp5782]

Sometimes if the cork plug is missing or leaking rear end gear oil will get mixed in the wheel bearings and wash out the grease.
Make sure cork plug is OK and don't fill the rear end too full; maybe about an inch below fill hole. Also, check axle pressure relief
to make sure it is clear.

The washing away the grease would not have any effect on that. I run wet hubs on my M939 series truck and the hubs run cooler. I would rather not pack those bearings and let oil do the job over grease.

 

[77 AMG]

Details on this?

 

[Lovetofix]

The washing away the grease would not have any effect on that. I run wet hubs on my M939 series truck and the hubs run cooler. I would rather not pack those bearings and let oil do the job over grease.

Definitely agree to that. When I got my truck the one wheel had a small amount of oil in it. On my recovery trip that wheel ran the coolest. I decided to keep the original greased bearing setup because I am using the truck on a road that definitely qualifies as “off-road” and I have to ford two rivers each way to and from town and want to protect my differentials.


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[Lovetofix]

I am not trying to say that what I experienced with my truck proves anything. Only time will tell, but when I change those seals again, if the same thing happens then I think that will give some evidence that rubber on metal can create heat. I have the temperatures readings documented and all the bearings were cleaned, inspected, repacked and preload set per the TM with the proper tools.


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[Floridianson]

I am not trying to say that what I experienced with my truck proves anything. Only time will tell, but when I change those seals again, if the same thing happens then I think that will give some evidence that rubber on metal can create heat. I have the temperatures readings documented and all the bearings were cleaned, inspected, repacked and preload set per the TM with the proper tools.
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After your 100 foot pound load while spinning then back off then setting preload at 50 foot pounds how far are you backing of that?

 

[simp5782]

Details on this?

I simply remove the rubber seal from the outer seal. As far as the inner seal goes I use CR seals from motion industries. It is rated to a higher pressure rating than the SKF seals. SkF seals are good to 450 degrees though. When I fill the differential I fill to the plug then install it. then I remove the axle housing vent and add 2 to 3 quarts more thru that bringing the level up in the hubs. It does not take much to keep them cool. I have run them this way for lots and lots of miles. My rear bearings on my truck have never been repacked or even inspected in more than 150k miles

Also when you put your hub back on prior to the outer bearings going on you can squirt some oil in the inner hub cavity after you have the seal proper against the spindle

 

[gringeltaube]

I really can not believe that a rubber seal would heat up a hub....

No? Not even if I say it loud? ... repeat it a dozen times?