difference between m998 and 1123 ?

[dhawks]

I'm being told not to sink money into my m998 that i just need to buy a 1123 . I'm trying to find the big difference other than motor . can you guys help me with what is so different ? thank in advance !

 

[kcobean]

the 1123 is designed for higher loads. Check the Operators manual for a good description and comparison of each of the variants:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/M998/TM-9-2320-280-10.pdf

 

[erasedhammer]

m1123 has a full A2 driveline. GVW is 10K. 6.5 NA 4l80... Most come with red dot a/c systems. Beware they are all barebones (except for the refurbished ones). No doors, roof, or rear seats sometimes... set of good x doors is at least 2500.

 

[riderdan]

From my research before I bought my truck, there's not much difference as far as "performance"--they have similar approach/departure angles, fording capabilities, and slope capabilities. The main difference is that the later trucks have been modified to carry the additional weight that came when they were armored. The original M998s were really just like other military trucks--intended to be used to haul cargo and troops (and infantry officers who didn't want to walk). Once we went back to the sandbox, higher-up realized that a soft-skinned truck was a deathtrap in low-intensity combat and armor was added. The original trucks weren't designed to haul all that plate around, so the newer trucks were designed with that in mind. That's the big difference.

For the NA versions, the four-speed transmission might matter if you're going to do highway driving. I decided the premium for a newer truck wasn't worth it for me, since I only ever drive my truck around town and in the countryside. No highway miles since I drove it home from Tennessee YMMV, of course.

 

[Wire Fox]

These guys nailed the big differences. There's a few subtleties that are scattered throughout that mostly don't matter until it comes time to buy small, replacement parts (if you want to stay "period-accurate"). You can go through the parts manual and look at the UOCs to see the differences on the various systems. My comparison has been to look for A13 (M998A1) and NNN (M1123) and see what's different.

 

[dhawks]

thank you guys !

 

[desmodromic]

I'm being told not to sink money into my m998 that i just need to buy a 1123 . I'm trying to find the big difference other than motor . can you guys help me with what is so different ? thank in advance !

I posted in the other thread, but I will throw in my .02 here. I have A0s. A1 and now an A2ish M1123. My feeling is that if you think that you will eventually want to upgrade to a 4L80e trans (extra gear for highway driving, plus park), then definitely bite the bullet and buy an M1123 or M1045. You will be getting a much newer mv that was likely reset in 2010/2011, has a heavier chassis, 6.5L engine and the 4L80e already in it. In my opinion, 85% of the the doors, and most of the tops on all these surplus Humvees are completely roached, so you will likely be buying a new top kit anyway. The AC kit can be a plus if you are into it, but I like to be uncomfortable (hence multiple Humvees, so I will be pulling the AC from my M1123). The other major difference is that most of the M1123s are in theory supposed to be super low mileage, but some of the wear indicators suggest otherwise. Lastly, the Marine HMMWVs come with clean SF97s which make on road titling easier.

Whatever you do, you can't go wrong with getting any Humvee. They are great.

 

[erasedhammer]

I posted in the other thread, but I will throw in my .02 here. I have A0s. A1 and now an A2ish M1123. My feeling is that if you think that you will eventually want to upgrade to a 4L80e trans (extra gear for highway driving, plus park), then definitely bite the bullet and buy an M1123 or M1045. You will be getting a much newer mv that was likely reset in 2010/2011, has a heavier chassis, 6.5L engine and the 4L80e already in it. In my opinion, 85% of the the doors, and most of the tops on all these surplus Humvees are completely roached, so you will likely be buying a new top kit anyway. The AC kit can be a plus if you are into it, but I like to be uncomfortable (hence multiple Humvees, so I will be pulling the AC from my M1123). The other major difference is that most of the M1123s are in theory supposed to be super low mileage, but some of the wear indicators suggest otherwise. Lastly, the Marine HMMWVs come with clean SF97s which make on road titling easier.

Whatever you do, you can't go wrong with getting any Humvee. They are great.

The problem with m1123 is they are unregisterable in pretty much most states because they are 2000+ for the year and do not meet emissions, even if they already have a title cause most states require an inspection for just entering the state (ex California)
Also you can get an m998 that was in service until recently. Mine was put away for storage in 2013, and its a 1994. They even rebuilt the 6.2 for some reason instead of replacing it...
Don't get me wrong, those m1123s look mighty cool, but the ones I've seen are either completely stripped down or have brand new doors and roofs (plan B).

If you are pulling the a/c from a m1123 I would be interested in buying all your tubing for that. I have most of a red dot kit but I am missing the tubes.

 

[desmodromic]

The problem with m1123 is they are unregisterable in pretty much most states because they are 2000+ for the year and do not meet emissions, even if they already have a title cause most states require an inspection for just entering the state (ex California)
Also you can get an m998 that was in service until recently. Mine was put away for storage in 2013, and its a 1994. They even rebuilt the 6.2 for some reason instead of replacing it...
Don't get me wrong, those m1123s look mighty cool, but the ones I've seen are either completely stripped down or have brand new doors and roofs (plan B).

.

Can you expound more on the emissions issue? I have not seen any chatter on that. I am not challenging you, but rather actually curious. I recently bought a 1999 M1123, but have not take delivery and run through the emissions. I will say in NY getting my 1995 to pass inspection was a joke - basically all older diesels pass here. Is the emissions cutoff you are referring to actually 2000, or was that a ballpark number you were using as a generalization?

 

[erasedhammer]

Can you expound more on the emissions issue? I have not seen any chatter on that. I am not challenging you, but rather actually curious. I recently bought a 1999 M1123, but have not take delivery and run through the emissions. I will say in NY getting my 1995 to pass inspection was a joke - basically all older diesels pass here. Is the emissions cutoff you are referring to actually 2000, or was that a ballpark number you were using as a generalization?

From what I've experienced in California, Oregon, and Washington is that anything 1998, 1997 or generally pre 2000 will be exempt from emissions/smog testing. All three states require the testing no matter what. Even the really relaxed dmvs/dols won't let ya slide by. I think I got the chillest dmv in california ever and they still needed to know the age of the vehicle for emissions...
I can't say for other states, but I have heard some chatter from other members about registration and emissions exemptions.

One day I will sink my money into whatever new humvee is being surplused and through in a dmax/cummins so that it can pass emissions testing. (I've been replacing old worn parts on my 998 for a while now and just about anything that moves seems a lot smoother, I envy the late 2000s trucks for their newness)

 

[MaverickH1]

Okay, so I wanted an M1123 because:

- Upgraded steering components
- Upgraded suspension components - although the uparmored suspension REALLY sucks. It is way too rigid.
- CTIS capable.
- 6.5L optimizer which can be pulled from the Humvee and placed in my '82 Suburban, in theory with a side mounted turbo. This will happen when I put a center mount turbo engine in my M1123.
- 4 speed transmission. The Humvee is already geared low enough as it is, having an overdrive transmission was essential to me.
- Likely less abused than most of the other surplus trucks out there.
- No "off road use only" restrictions in any paperwork ever.
- It came bare, and allowed me to do whatever I wanted with it. This included upgrading to tinted windshields, better LED lighting, etc.
- I believe it has better brakes.
- 12k halfshafts which are much more rugged off-road.
- Higher towing capacity. Higher payload.
- More history. (I think trucks that were among the first to ever be armor plated will end up being historically sought after and more collectible. Just a hunch. In civvy hands, there are maybe 50 M1123s out there, and maybe 7000 M998s.
- Some LED lighting already installed.
- Newer electrical system, dual volt alternator.
- Deep water fording kit already installed (I think). Just add snorkel and tail pipe.

When I added it all up when I was looking to purchase, it was between a $17,500 M998 from 1986 that had 30,000 miles and a $22,000 M1123 from 2005 and 81* miles. It was a no brainer to me. But I use it like a typical pick-up truck.

Plus, when you go out to eat at obscure restaurants you've never been to before, people somehow know it and reserve the best parking spots for you. Just look for the American flags when parking:

Can you expound more on the emissions issue? I have not seen any chatter on that. I am not challenging you, but rather actually curious. I recently bought a 1999 M1123, but have not take delivery and run through the emissions. I will say in NY getting my 1995 to pass inspection was a joke - basically all older diesels pass here. Is the emissions cutoff you are referring to actually 2000, or was that a ballpark number you were using as a generalization?

It probably varies by state. The state might dictate that it meets federal regulations of the year of manufacture or something. You'd have to look up state law or your local law that dictates what emissions are required.

 

[kcobean]

Having just researched this for my state (Virginia) here's what I found out. Other states will of course be different:

I called the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality (the DEQ) and they said that in VA, only diesel vehicles that are OBD-II compliant are subject to emissions testing because stations are no longer required to maintain an exhaust gas analyzer (tail probe) system. OBD-II I believe was mandatory in 1997, so anything pre-'97 is automatically exempt from emissions. Because my inbound M998 is a 1989, I didn't even think to ask what the deal would be for a post-97 vehicle without an OBD-II system on it. I can only imagine it would be exempt since it cannot be tested using the approved method. Of course, Virginia can be stuffy on vehicle related stuff, so they could just refuse to title such a vehicle.

 

[MaverickH1]

Having just researched this for my state (Virginia) here's what I found out. Other states will of course be different:

I called the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality (the DEQ) and they said that in VA, only diesel vehicles that are OBD-II compliant are subject to emissions testing because stations are no longer required to maintain an exhaust gas analyzer (tail probe) system. OBD-II I believe was mandatory in 1997, so anything pre-'97 is automatically exempt from emissions. Because my inbound M998 is a 1989, I didn't even think to ask what the deal would be for a post-97 vehicle without an OBD-II system on it. I can only imagine it would be exempt since it cannot be tested using the approved method. Of course, Virginia can be stuffy on vehicle related stuff, so they could just refuse to title such a vehicle.

I guess my first response would be that it doesn't matter what the person on the phone says. I've learned that the hard way too many times.

But secondly, from what you are saying then the HMMWV should be exempt since it was not required to be OBDII compliant.

That said, the only places that I know of that have emissions testing at all in VA are in northern VA and are county by county. Luckily I'm still in a "free" county, as most counties are in VA.

 

[kcobean]

I guess my first response would be that it doesn't matter what the person on the phone says. I've learned that the hard way too many times.

But secondly, from what you are saying then the HMMWV should be exempt since it was not required to be OBDII compliant.

That said, the only places that I know of that have emissions testing at all in VA are in northern VA and are county by county. Luckily I'm still in a "free" county, as most counties are in VA.

LOL I though you might chime in.

I'm in one of those icky northern counties (Loudoun) and that's why I did all the leg work regarding emissions. I think I'm doubly covered because based on age, the 1989 is an antique and as such is exempt from emissions anyways.

 

[MaverickH1]

LOL I though you might chime in.
I'm in one of those icky northern counties (Loudoun) and that's why I did all the leg work regarding emissions. I think I'm doubly covered because based on age, the 1989 is an antique and as such is exempt from emissions anyways.

Yeah, I think you'll be good.

My wife is from Clifton, so I'm up there often. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before emissions requirements are state wide, with the way things are moving.

 

[Wire Fox]

- Deep water fording kit already installed (I think). Just add snorkel and tail pipe.

Does it have the diverter valve assembly installed near your right knee labeled "VENT" and "FORD"? If it does, I think it's safe to assume that you have it all there (then again, I'd inspect for any open line prior to actually water fording). If it doesn't, the system is for-sure not complete. What you WILL have is the proper water fording dipsticks already installed (they both should have some form of locking seal at the top of the dipstick), as those seemed to become standard issue later down the line.

 

[MaverickH1]

Does it have the diverter valve assembly installed near your right knee labeled "VENT" and "FORD"? If it does, I think it's safe to assume that you have it all there (then again, I'd inspect for any open line prior to actually water fording). If it doesn't, the system is for-sure not complete. What you WILL have is the proper water fording dipsticks already installed (they both should have some form of locking seal at the top of the dipstick), as those seemed to become standard issue later down the line.

Yep, the valve is there. I think it's on all USMC trucks.

 

[erasedhammer]

Correct me if I'm wrong but all M1123 are usmc. There is no such thing as an army m1123. They have a different designation, I think it is the m1097 that is the army counterpart.

 

[MaverickH1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but all M1123 are usmc. There is no such thing as an army m1123. They have a different designation, I think it is the m1097 that is the army counterpart.

As I understand it, you are correct.

My statement was meant to mean that any truck made for the USMC was supposed to have the deep fording switch. Not that all M1123s made for the USMC were supposed to. If that distinction makes sense....

 

[Dmljohnson]

The difference is just the Powertrain on these rigs, but if you drive a 1123 it feels the same to me, as if your driving a tractor on the streets, My 2 cents, it don't matter m998,1123,1097....It it all depends on what you're doing to the rig, I have a 1986 m998 with 6.6 dmax and Allison 6 speed w/tune, 2" lift in front to level the rig, recaro racing seats, small momo steering, Ac, civilian door to make it civilize, alpha door mirrors, too much to list, I can go on and on, not the fastest thing on the street, but for a m998...it's quick, so it all depends how much money you dump into it, I've seen other members m998 in here and they are setup real nice, so it's up to you, once the body is in great shape that's what matters, you're going to eventually change it up anyway, I think everyone one here upgrades their rig in some way, that's the fun part in it, currently I'm building another m998 6.2 w/turbo and Allison 1k 5 speed transmission, with gearing, we started it up this week and I tell you, ppl on the block believe it's a cummins....haa, best toy I ever had....don't under estimate those 6.2's they are bullet proof...I preferred that than those 6.5's...will post the build on another thread..