Direction of M35 winch PTO?

[ballencd]

Guys, I have converted my M35 to a bobbed truck and installed a dump kit on it with a 12VDC pump and controls. I have trouble keeping the one battery it is hooked to charged and it is so slow to dump and drop. The pump is required both on lift and drop. No fun. I have a (not yet installed) PTO and winch and what I would like to do it convert the PTO to hydraulic and convert the winch to hydraulic and use the PTO powered pump to power the dump bed and winch.

Has anyone done this? When I search it comes back with zero hits.

I'm thinking of either 1) mounting the pump somewhere under the truck and shorten the drive shaft I have for the winch to connect it to the PTO or 2) build a bracket that will allow the pump to be directly mounted to the PTO with a coupler between like a married transmission to transfer case type connection. The second option is the desired option.....thinking have a custom machined bearing retainer on the output shaft that is thicker the the factory shaft and had a mounting plate for the pump with a sleeve between the two. The PTO has a 1.25" output shaft and the pump now under consideration has a 3/4" 11 splined shaft.

So I am looking for a forum where this has already been done if one exists and also the direction of rotation of the output shaft on the M35 PTO.

Information on converting an M35 winch from drive shaft to hydraulic would be helpful so I can get the correct pump for use for both winch and dump.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
ballencd

 

[Evil Dr. Porkchop]

The front output of the transmission PTO goes in both directions, you shift it forward or reverse to winch in or out. If I were you I'd get the rear accessory drive for the PTO so you can leave the winch stuff stock and run the pump off the rear output. That's how the factory deuce dump trucks do it.

 

[ballencd]

You are so right. What was I thinking. But I already have the winch PTO stuff! And I think the pump I already have is one direction since it has a larger input port then output port but I will look into that. I could go with just using one direction (i.e. forward only vs both forward and reverse) and use a hydraulic valve to swap the direction for both the winch and dump...... Back to drawing board I guess.

So....what direction does the output shaft of the winch PTO turn when the transmission is in forward?

Thanks

 

[rustystud]

Talk with "tobyS" about this. He has a PTO hydraulic pump already mounted for sell.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Output direction when truck is moving forward is still determined by the direction you choose on the PTO lever. Accessory drive would be the most streamlined install but it's your choice. If you decide to go full hydro, the M35A3 used hydro winch so there's an answer to running the winch. Another option is a transfer case PTO. Final option is a 24V motor for your electric over hydraulic setup. Sure, dumping is slower but it fixes your charge issues and can get you more power.

 

[gimpyrobb]

" I have trouble keeping the one battery it is hooked to charged"

That is because you have installed it wrong. Either get a dc-dc converter or a battery equalizer.

You are essentially killing your charging system the way it is. You might not know it but the other battery it boiling, you should check the water levels in both.

 

[porkysplace]

Talk with "tobyS" about this. He has a PTO hydraulic pump already mounted for sell.

The one tobys has is for a Allison trans in a M35A3.

 

[gringeltaube]

.... or 2) build a bracket that will allow the pump to be directly mounted to the PTO with a coupler between like a married transmission to transfer case type connection. The second option is the desired option.....thinking have a custom machined bearing retainer on the output shaft that is thicker the the factory shaft and had a mounting plate for the pump with a sleeve between the two.....

I doubt that there is enough room; your pump would probably hit the clutch housing... (see picture)

... the direction of rotation of the output shaft on the M35 PTO.

See it here... CW for forward H & L; CCW for reverse. (when looking at the front side of PTO)
That is always - as long as the clutch was engaged - and no matter if the transmission was in any gear or neutral. (the PTO is driven by the reverse idler gear, which is in constant mesh with the countershaft)

Information on converting an M35 winch from drive shaft to hydraulic would be helpful...

This thread: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?78933-Hydraulic-Conversion-of-PTO-Winch



G.

 

[rustystud]

The one tobys has is for a Allison trans in a M35A3.

Yes but the unit only needs the adapter to the PTO shaft. The hydraulic pump is the perfect size the OP needs for his truck.

 

[ballencd]

"See it here... CW for forward H & L; CCW for reverse. (when looking at the front side of PTO)
That is always - as long as the clutch was engaged - and no matter if the transmission was in any gear or neutral. (the PTO is driven by the reverse idler gear, which is in constant mesh with the countershaft)"

Gringeltaube,

From what i'm reading here: The reverse idler drives the PTO all the time (if the PTO is engaged and the clutch is out)...which means that the PTO output is always going the same direction and the direction of the winch is determined by the winch control???? IF this is the case then which direction is the PTO output turning.....CW or CCW????

And.....if I put the PTO on the opposite side of the transmission does it turn the same direction except that the output is now facing the rear of the truck?

 

[gringeltaube]

"See it here... CW for forward H & L; CCW for reverse. (when looking at the front side of PTO)
That is always - as long as the clutch was engaged - and no matter if the transmission was in any gear or neutral. (the PTO is driven by the reverse idler gear, which is in constant mesh with the countershaft)"

Gringeltaube,

From what i'm reading here: The reverse idler drives the PTO all the time (if the PTO is engaged and the clutch is out)...which means that the PTO output is always going the same direction and the direction of the winch is determined by the winch control???? IF this is the case then which direction is the PTO output turning.....CW or CCW?....

No, the PTO is like a gearbox in itself and its selector (shift)shaft has 5 positions: two forward speeds (L & H); one reverse- and two neutral positions, in between.
As I said before, in forward-H or -L the output shaft will turn CW; in reverse it turns CCW and in Neutral it doesn't turn; even if some of the PTO internals are spinning full time with the transmission.

So shifting the PTO into FWD or R is what determines what direction the winch drum rotates.
The winch itself only has a clutch, to engage or disengage; nothing else.

And.....if I put the PTO on the opposite side of the transmission does it turn the same direction except that the output is now facing the rear of the truck?

On the opposite side of the 3053-transmission? There is no provision for mounting a PTO there.
And if you meant same side but mounted upside-down, that won't work either because of the PTO's driven gear not being centered.

But may I ask why you want to "reinvent the wheel""...? Just get an auxiliary rear output unit AKA accessory drive (as suggested in post #5) and bolt it to the rear side of your PTO. Then mount your pump somewhere underneath the drivers side transfer case support - where there's plenty of space - and fabricate a short drive shaft to connect both. (see it here...)


G.