DIY Tire Balancing

[lowell66dart]

The balancer adapters posted above make things a little clearer now. I was right there at the balancer with the shop owner and another employee and the conventional adapters just don't fit the HMMWV wheels well. It's almost impossible to get it right. The wheels look bent when spinning. They tried way longer than I would of and I finally told them to give up.

 

[AOR]

Just reporting what the company told me. My balance situation was that one wheel was calling for 17oz at the local tire shop spin balancer. Centramatic said their balancer is rated for up to 12oz of compensation, if I remember right. But the tech person said, try them and see, they will surprise you what they can balance.
Also just as an FYI the reason they make a hmmwv specific balancer is the owner of the company owned an h1. So you can be sure they were made the best they can be for our application!

I do not claim to be an expert in anything I was posting to help people since I know what does work. I have owned an off road shop since 2002 and our average tire size is 35" we often see 37's as they have becoming more and more popular on the Jeeps and trucks that we work on. I have owned different traditional balancing machines and the end result was vehicles that vibrated and unhappy customers so I bit the bullet maybe three years ago and purchased the Hunter GSP9700 and we have had really good luck with it. The salesman told me it would balance a football. I found that the traditional machines had trouble with heavier assemblies. With the included collets that came with the GSP9700 We were not getting very good balances on the 8 lug trucks after spending 20k for a balancer it took awhile being a small low production shop to recover. The truck adapter set was close to 2k that is needed to properly balance the 8 lug factory wheels. We have had great results with this combination on these heavy assemblies. We have dealt with Centramatic balancers in the past they do help but in my opinion they do not work as well as a nice dynamic balance from the balance machine I have I personally had a set of the Centramtic rings on a Jeep I owned. I felt the balance was similar to Dynabeads which have been hit or miss for us usually resulting in vibrations around 45 mph. Balancing technology has come a long way and Hunter is the leading company for tire balancers. There is a web page you can punch in your zip code and find out who in your area has them but I suggest making sure they also have the additional truck adapter set I posted pictures of or you may not get good results

 

[AOR]

The balancer adapters posted above make things a little clearer now. I was right there at the balancer with the shop owner and another employee and the conventional adapters just don't fit the HMMWV wheels well. It's almost impossible to get it right. The wheels look bent when spinning. They tried way longer than I would of and I finally told them to give up.

The wheels may have not been properly centered on the cones or collets and its possible the wheels were bent. Its hard to get them centered without the proper adapter set. With the GSP9700 it allows the operator to measure wheel runout as well. We found NormB had a bent wheel and when we looked closer the wheel had been damaged from running into something. I have seen several steel wheels in general bend simply from side loading off camber. I will take more pictures when I can but that adapter with the scuffs on it from use fits inside the HMMWV wheel center bore perfectly without any movement and the finger plate with the fingers shown also fit in the lug holes with out any movement which results in the wheel being properly centered to balance if its not properly centered you will not get a good balance

 

[teletech]

I have nice things to say about the Snap-on WB-400. It's a computer-based hand-spin balancer and weighs under 150Lbs but will work out to a 50" tire weighing 500Lbs.
I don't know about the new cost, but I've seen many used ones out there for $300-500.
Finding the correct adapter for your wheel can be a chore or expensive of course so try to find one already so equipped.

 

[Skrilex]

I do not claim to be an expert in anything I was posting to help people since I know what does work. I have owned an off road shop since 2002 and our average tire size is 35" we often see 37's as they have becoming more and more popular on the Jeeps and trucks that we work on. I have owned different traditional balancing machines and the end result was vehicles that vibrated and unhappy customers so I bit the bullet maybe three years ago and purchased the Hunter GSP9700 and we have had really good luck with it. The salesman told me it would balance a football. I found that the traditional machines had trouble with heavier assemblies. With the included collets that came with the GSP9700 We were not getting very good balances on the 8 lug trucks after spending 20k for a balancer it took awhile being a small low production shop to recover. The truck adapter set was close to 2k that is needed to properly balance the 8 lug factory wheels. We have had great results with this combination on these heavy assemblies. We have dealt with Centramatic balancers in the past they do help but in my opinion they do not work as well as a nice dynamic balance from the balance machine I have I personally had a set of the Centramtic rings on a Jeep I owned. I felt the balance was similar to Dynabeads which have been hit or miss for us usually resulting in vibrations around 45 mph. Balancing technology has come a long way and Hunter is the leading company for tire balancers. There is a web page you can punch in your zip code and find out who in your area has them but I suggest making sure they also have the additional truck adapter set I posted pictures of or you may not get good results

Great info! So would this be considered a “road force balancer” or something else? I believe it makes a difference, I have a sports car that can have vibes unless road force balanced. And I’ve had the beads in another car and it was like you say, hit and miss. I’ll give the centramatics a try but if that doesn’t satisfy then I’ll search for your machine for sure thanks.

 

[AOR]

Great info! So would this be considered a “road force balancer” or something else? I believe it makes a difference, I have a sports car that can have vibes unless road force balanced. And I’ve had the beads in another car and it was like you say, hit and miss. I’ll give the centramatics a try but if that doesn’t satisfy then I’ll search for your machine for sure thanks.

Yes the GSP9700 is a Diagnostic road force balancer. No one is going to road force balance one of these tires because rotating the tire on the wheel to for lower rod force numbers would take all day since the wheels bolt together and sandwich the tires. I do like to run the road force roller to see where the road force number is at and it also helps seating new beads to the wheels. We have balanced several sets of 40" aggressive mud tires on this machine with good results I have seen road force numbers over 100 lbs- typically when we see road force numbers over 60 lbs on the truck tires if the tires are brand new we have called to warranty them. With the HMMWV wheels the road force numbers will be pretty high with the run flat etc. Also in general Goodyear tires tend to be about the worst to balance having the most road force and needing the most weight. BFG is pretty bad as well. As I said I am not an expert. I know there are three harmonics that the tire machine shows and when doing a static balance it only addresses one of the three harmonics. I am not sure how many harmonics the centrifugal type addresses because it was not discussed in the manual. I will need to ask my Hunter rep. In general we have had hit or miss results with this type of balancing. I became a Dynabead dealer and we tried that and I did not buy any more once the supply ran out the results were a gamble. A nice dual plane dynamic balance covers all three. The further the weights are mounted away from the center of the wheel the less weights are needed and from what I have seen the longer you can go before needing to rebalance.

 

[gringeltaube]

........... I know there are three harmonics that the tire machine shows and when doing a static balance it only addresses one of the three harmonics.....

Nice, but keep in mind: "perfect is the enemy of good..."
For practical uses, static balancing is all we need for our relatively slow moving trucks. Far from perfect - but good enough for the purpose. It sure does address >90% of the problem and the necessary equipment to achieve this is affordable for the average (low-budget) DIY-guy.

For best results just get a spare hub and mount it on some kind of improvised spindle by using ball bearings instead of the original tapered roller bearings.
Pics and description, here...

 

[AOR]

Nice, but keep in mind: "perfect is the enemy of good..."
For practical uses, static balancing is all we need for our relatively slow moving trucks. Far from perfect - but good enough for the purpose. It sure does address >90% of the problem and the necessary equipment to achieve this is affordable for the average (low-budget) DIY-guy.

I don't think the military had to high of expectations for tire balancing being what the HMMWV is used for and as I said balancing technology has come a long way over the past five years or so. I agree it is what it is and yes I got off subject on the DIY thread. I just assumed many were balancing their own tires not so much to save money but more because of the lack of being able to get them properly balanced or finding a shop willing to attempt balancing them. Since I have found a way that I know works I wanted to post it up to help people who are willing to spend a little to get them done professionally. On the Cummins forums there are threads hundreds of pages long on how the trucks vibrate at highway speeds and all the failed attempts to fix the vibrations and no one had found a solution until someone posted the adapters that I have shown in the pictures in combination with the tire balancer we have. I guess it all depends on each individuals threshold for vibrations if its worth it to them or not.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

The balancer adapters posted above make things a little clearer now. I was right there at the balancer with the shop owner and another employee and the conventional adapters just don't fit the HMMWV wheels well. It's almost impossible to get it right. The wheels look bent when spinning. They tried way longer than I would of and I finally told them to give up.

Not sure what you mean or which balancer you're talking about? Just got the first centramatic on. fits perfect. Did you try putting them on backwards?

 

[Action]

Not sure what you mean or which balancer you're talking about? Just got the first centramatic on. fits perfect. Did you try putting them on backwards?

Lowell66dart was talking about adapters on the balancing machine.

 

[WhoMe08721]

Drove about 300miles round trip yesterday to Red ball Military Vehicle Show & Swap Meet in Pa doing 75mph most the way. Humvee drove great with the new Centramatic that I install, the steering wheel has NO shakes in it. I also drove 200miles round trip today to Indoor Military Invasion in Wildwood NJ doing 75mph most the way. This is a great product so far and I would recommend them. I wished they had a pair I could put on my M35a2.

 

[Sharecropper]

I’ve been following this thread for a while and now feel compelled to share my opinions and experiences. I apologize in advance if any portion of this post offends anyone, because that is certainly not my intention.

I’ve been struggling with balancing large wheels and tires since building my first off-road truck in 1969. Back in those days applied lead weights were the only option, and because my 4-wheeling buddy owned and managed a Hunter tire center, we obtained as good of results as was possible for the equipment technology of the day. As the years rolled by the equipment and technology improved substantially until it was possible to obtain a decent smooth ride with the largest and heaviest tires and wheels available at the time. But one inherent problem that could not be overcome until recently was, once we came out of the mud bogs and our wheels were loaded with uneven mud residue, our wheel balancing was non-existent. We always had to drive slower going home due to the shimmy and shakes. So in essence, no matter how good the tire balancing equipment and/or efficiency of the tire technician, nothing could overcome the changes of balancing requirements once the weight of the wheel and tire was changed due to environmental causes. Nothing, that is, until static balancing technology began to be utilized.

I gave up all my 4-wheeling and mud-bogging back in the early 1990’s, when my wife said I finally “grew up”. Now fast forward to 2010 when I acquired and began a second childhood with my M1028. Having been successful in business and with adequate financial resources, I launched into a complete rebuild and restoration of this truck quite by accident (see my rebuild thread). I dug out my custom 20” Firestone split rims I had built in 1985 and mounted new 11.00/20 NDT tires, tubes, and flaps. Got these mounted and rediscovered the same old issue of balancing. So after reading up on the “new” technology of static balancing, I ordered a set of Balance Masters, which utilize a special heavy fluid inside a race tube to dynamically balance the entire wheel. I could not have been more dissatisfied with a product. The specific model of Balance Masters was the exact model for HMMWV tires and wheels, however with the great weight of my 11:00/20’s, it was as if I had forgotten to install them. So I took them off and sold them, and then installed exactly 16 ounces of Dyna Beads inside each tube. After installing the Dyna Beads my truck was as smooth as my wife’s Mercedes, no kidding. So in retrospect, 1 pound of Dyna Beads in each tube was able to do what tha Balance Masters could not do.

But with back and hip surgery looming, I then decided to lower my truck a little to ease the effort of ingress and egress to and from the thing. I took off the 20’s and stored them in my warehouse (I still have them), and installed a set of late model 12-bolts and BFG’s. Because I had lost faith in the Balance Masters, this time I purchased a new set of HMMWV Centromatics. I broke down the 12-bolts and removed the run flats, and purchased and installed a set of PVC inserts from Trail Worthy Fab. All new O-rings, lug nuts, tires, and valve stems. And I can go on the record and say that my truck drives and rides as smooth as my wife’s new Porsche. I am running Centromarics, which I understand have rotating steel balls inside a race, and I would not run anything else.

Just my 2 cents. Hope this helps.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Drove about 300miles round trip yesterday to Red ball Military Vehicle Show & Swap Meet in Pa doing 75mph most the way. Humvee drove great with the new Centramatic that I install, the steering wheel has NO shakes in it. I also drove 200miles round trip today to Indoor Military Invasion in Wildwood NJ doing 75mph most the way. This is a great product so far and I would recommend them. I wished they had a pair I could put on my M35a2.

Hope mine do the trick! Just started on the first one, LOL Been too busy doing house work. I would contact them and see as far as your big truck, they make them for semis.

 

[teletech]

Drove about 300miles round trip yesterday to Red ball Military Vehicle Show & Swap Meet in Pa doing 75mph most the way. Humvee drove great with the new Centramatic that I install, the steering wheel has NO shakes in it. I also drove 200miles round trip today to Indoor Military Invasion in Wildwood NJ doing 75mph most the way. This is a great product so far and I would recommend them. I wished they had a pair I could put on my M35a2.

They certainly make big-enough models, so the only sticking point would be that of bolt-pattern. That you could fix with a drill-press or send out to a machine-shop.

 

[ikoinu]

Another vote for Centramatic. I've been using these for six months.
Vibration was really annoying before, but these solve the problem. You can just swap on new wheels and tires and don't have to worry about balancing.

Worth the price.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Finally got all 4 on, took it for a ride. Another centramatic fan here. It eliminated 95% of the shaking, I still need to check all the ujoints and service the hubs yet. Very impressed for $300

 

[ikoinu]

Glad it fixed your problem.