Does This Exist? Trying to Find Diesel Fuel Transfer/Lift Pump & a Portable Generator

[Commander5993]

Does This Exist? Trying to Find Diesel Fuel Transfer/Lift Pump & a Portable Generator

Hi All!

I've been looking on GL a while for a Diesel Fuel Transfer/Lift Pump and a portable generator. But they don't ever seem to list to much info about these items in the description. I have tried to take models and Google them, but mostly I just come up with is NSN#, and not much else. I'm not limited to buying from GL, I would buy them from anywhere if it was the right type and good quality machine.

On the Diesel Transfer/Lift Pump, I don't want a massive pump (like one that needs its own trailer...) I was hoping to find something on the smaller size, and I was hoping to find one that was 24v. Might be to much to ask for... But the real kicker is I need a self priming pump that can Lift (suction lift?) Diesel fuel up 15-30ft from underground storage tanks. Does something like this exist in either GL or Civ Retail? The most I have really seen is 15ft I think. Don't need anything fancy, just something that works. I want this so if there is a power failure, which happens often here in the winter especially, or if there is a longer term power disruption because of some event. I can disconnect the Electric Pump and use this D/C pump to bring up fuel for the trucks and other equipment.

On the generator, Again nothing fancy. Just a 110 volt portable generator but I need one that runs on Diesel. Again GL has listed diesel generators, but usually they don't say much else about them, and most of them seem to be large in size. I can buy Civ Retail, however after researching several different companies and brands, there seems to be a pattern of negative to very negative reviews on diesel generators. So I'm not sure which brand or such I should be looking into.

Any Ideas? Does anyone use a Diesel Lift Pump or Generator like the ones above? What do you suggest?

Any Suggestions or info would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Beerslayer]

The perfect pump for your application does exist. Doc Farmall had a bunch of them a while back. He would be the first person I would ask.

Frequently there are some very nice single cylinder diesel generators on GL that are on skids that will make 120vac. Usually they are Yanmar powered. Often they have very few hours on them.

Good luck! Seems like your requirements are not too far out of the box.

 

[Isaac-1]

On the pump side, I suspect your problem is a matter of physics having to do with the maximum suction lift of a vacuum, I have not done the math for diesel, but if I remember correctly the limit for water is around 30 ft.

As to the generator, you don't give us much information to go on, like how heavy do you consider portable, or how many watts you need, how loud is acceptable (do you need one in an ASK, sound suppressing housing?).

The smallest commonly available surplus diesel generators are of the 3KW MEP-016 family, which includes the MEP-016b powered by a 1 cylinder Onan engine built in the 1980's, the MEP-701a which is a MEP-016b in an ASK housing, the MEP-016D which is modern 21st century Yanmar diesel refit of the older MEP-016c gasoline generator, and the MEP-016E which is a Yanmar diesel refit of the MEP-016b , these weigh between 350-500 pounds depending on model, and if they have electric start, ASK, etc. The current issue 3KW generator is the 3KW TQG MEP-831 these rarely show up on the surplus market, of course things go up from there.

Ike

p.s. you may think these are very heavy for the 3KW rating compared to the things on the civilian market, but remember these are designed for 24/7 operation at full load in extreme conditions (120 degrees vs 80 degrees) and are designed to be rebuilt every 5,000+ hours.

 

[Commander5993]

The perfect pump for your application does exist. Doc Farmall had a bunch of them a while back. He would be the first person I would ask.

Frequently there are some very nice single cylinder diesel generators on GL that are on skids that will make 120vac. Usually they are Yanmar powered. Often they have very few hours on them.

Good luck! Seems like your requirements are not too far out of the box.

Hey Beerslayer! Thanks for the info I'll pm Doc Farmall and ask him about the pumps.

I'll look for the Yanmar generators too. That gives me a direction. I think I had seen one or two on there already, but wasn't too sure about them.

Thanks!

 

[Commander5993]

On the pump side, I suspect your problem is a matter of physics having to do with the maximum suction lift of a vacuum, I have not done the math for diesel, but if I remember correctly the limit for water is around 30 ft.

Yes Exactly! It is a matter of physics, and yes its all to do with the suction lift. I can find a diesel pump pretty cheap, but to find one that can lift fuel from that distance has been the problem. I know I said 30ft, that is pretty much the maximum distance that I can see it being. But if I could find one that would do 25ft, I'd probably be Ok. I'm going to contact Doc Farmall as per Beerslayers suggestion and see what he can tell me.

As to the generator, you don't give us much information to go on, like how heavy do you consider portable, or how many watts you need, how loud is acceptable (do you need one in an ASK, sound suppressing housing?).

The smallest commonly available surplus diesel generators are of the 3KW MEP-016 family, which includes the MEP-016b powered by a 1 cylinder Onan engine built in the 1980's, the MEP-701a which is a MEP-016b in an ASK housing, the MEP-016D which is modern 21st century Yanmar diesel refit of the older MEP-016c gasoline generator, and the MEP-016E which is a Yanmar diesel refit of the MEP-016b , these weigh between 350-500 pounds depending on model, and if they have electric start, ASK, etc. The current issue 3KW generator is the 3KW TQG MEP-831 these rarely show up on the surplus market, of course things go up from there.

Ike

p.s. you may think these are very heavy for the 3KW rating compared to the things on the civilian market, but remember these are designed for 24/7 operation at full load in extreme conditions (120 degrees vs 80 degrees) and are designed to be rebuilt every 5,000+ hours.

Wow... a lot of options. Now that you mention it, I need one that is somewhat quiet, so I guess I need one with an ASK housing? From what you have said the MEP-016E I think sounds like what I need. Yeah the weight is a little more than I had expected, but like you said they are made to run 24/7 in extreme temps. I wonder how cold of temp they are rated to? In any case, like your saying they are a much tougher unit than civilian stuff.

Thanks for the Tips and the info That gives me a direction and some knowledge of what I am looking at in the auctions.

Thanks!

 

[Commander5993]

Well, I thought the MEP 016E was the one with the ASK sound deading case? But I guess it is MEP-016B?

 

[Beerslayer]

If Doc doesn't have any of them left, he will know where they went.

How much volume of fuel do you need to push? A 24vdc fuel transfer pump with the power cable taped to a flexible section of fuel line can be dropped into the tank and will work, but your flow rate with that setup will not fill a transfer tank real fast. Do you need a trickle or a flood?

Edit: I have one of the MEP-016b generators with the ASK, and quiet is is not. Need hearing protection when working around it.

 

[Commander5993]

If Doc doesn't have any of them left, he will know where they went.

How much volume of fuel do you need to push? A 24vdc fuel transfer pump with the power cable taped to a flexible section of fuel line can be dropped into the tank and will work, but your flow rate with that setup will not fill a transfer tank real fast. Do you need a trickle or a flood?

Edit: I have one of the MEP-016b generators with the ASK, and quiet is is not. Need hearing protection when working around it.

Well, I don't want a trickle, so I guess I need a flood. I would like to be able to do 250 Gallons in an Hour at least. Don't want to spend all day just filling up tanks. I figured from the GPM/H ratings I had seen on lower suctions lift pumps (like the 15ft lift), I thought if a pump was capable of lifting fuel 25ft-30ft, they would have a higher GPM/H output.
But Like I said before, probably asking to much out of a 24vdc Pump. I guess if I had the generator, I could go to a 110v pump. Didn't really want to do that, but if it is necessary to get the job done then so be it.

Good Point on the trickle or flood, that would make the difference between something I can use, or something that is just wasting my time.

Thanks for the input on the generator too!

 

[Commander5993]

I wonder if there is anything to prevent a person from building a sound deadening box around one of these generators?

If they weigh 300+ lbs, I would just have to mount it in the truck anyway. So I would think building a box around it, but of course having cutouts for access to the controls and an exhaust output, would work wouldn't it?

Wonder if it would cause a heat problem... since these things are air cooled I'm guessing it might...

Speaking of exhaust, I wonder if a I could add on a muffler and help with the noise as well... Hummmmm....

 

[Darwin T]

one trick is a foot valve at the end of the hose at the strainer. once it starts lifting it won't run back down it will keep it in the hose. the only problem is when you are through and pull the hose out it will still be full. you either have to pull it early and try to top of or pump it back into the source tank to empty it.

 

[Commander5993]

one trick is a foot valve at the end of the hose at the strainer. once it starts lifting it won't run back down it will keep it in the hose. the only problem is when you are through and pull the hose out it will still be full. you either have to pull it early and try to top of or pump it back into the source tank to empty it.

Kind of like how an non-submersible well pump works right? Hummm something to think about. Does that mean a pump that would normally not be able to lift from that depth, with the addition of a foot valve, it would then be capable of this? I'm guessing it would just take a while to prime right?

Have to do some research.

Thanks Darwin T for the idea! This may be an option that I will have to consider.

 

[Keith_J]

A foot valve only maintains prime when the pump is off. You would need a pump that is self-priming unless you have a quantity of fuel to do that.

Be careful discussing this TEOTWAWKI engineering as a few years ago, someone was stealing fuel from underground storage tanks by parking a trailer over the ports, opening a trap door on the trailer and sucking out the fuel without being seen. Even during power outages/evacuations, theft is theft.

 

[Commander5993]

They seriously were stealing fuel from gas station tanks? How were they not seen? I know you said they were inside a trailer, but it seems that someone sitting off a bit could see under the trailer. I assume they did get caught, otherwise no one would have known how they were doing it right?

I guess someone could use a similar setup to steal fuel, giving they were able to get the tank caps off. I thought they were locked? Unless there was help from the "inside".

 

[Isaac-1]

A similar thing was happening a few years ago in Houston TX, someone had a van fitted with fuel tanks, and a removable floor panel, they would park over the fill ports at one of the Houston city vehicles fuel depot sites (unmanned gas stations around the city that police and other city vehicles use to refuel). As a result of this incident the city added fences and limited access electronic gates to all their fuel depot sites.

On the generator note, I also have a MEP-701a, the ASK helps with much of the higher frequency noise, however it is a rather large one cylinder diesel engine running at 3600 rpms, meaning I can feel the vibration through my feet 20+ feet away, perceived sound is almost identical to typical push lawn mower.

Ike

 

[Commander5993]

Ok, so the ASK housing does help reduce the noise to a more "tolerable" level then. Well that's good to know when looking at the auctions. But if nothing else, maybe I can build a "box" around it and do the similar thing. Just have to make it breathable enough to keep it cool though. I don't know just an idea.

I'm just looking at this stuff to use as backup equipment and such. I'm not going out to rob gas stations or anything.

Thanks for the Reply!

 

[Commander5993]

Well if I have a generator with 110v access. Although Expensive, I found this pump. Fluid Transfer Pump # FR700V by Tuthill Corporation

And if I understand what is states in the description, It has a Minimum of 15ft Lift, and is designed to be used with underground tanks. Any Thoughts?

Additional Note:
They have a 24 vdc version of this pump too. But it does not list how many feet of suction lift it has. It is also a 1/4 hp instead of the 1/3 hp. I don't know. Going to try to find someone to email and ask them what the suction lift is.