doghead starter relay modifcation

[bigtruck]

Good deal. That'll make this even easier. Thanks for the help!

 

[1986Blazerk5]

I am planning on doing this soon good instructions

Thanks Doghead!!!

 

[ralbelt]

I did this as a preventive measure, probably a good 100 or so starts with no problems.All CUCV owners should do this before they have starter issues.

 

[doghead]

I did this as a preventive measure, probably a good 100 or so starts with no problems.All CUCV owners should do this before they have starter issues.

I agree

 

[2deuce]

I just bought mine tonight. $13.88 at napa. Preventive thats my reasoning. Thanks Doghead!

 

[Brad M]

For those that don't have a NAPA around or just want it delivered and not go to the store I found it on eBay for $12.94 shipped but you can also test the make an offer button and see if you can get it cheaper

Starter Solenoid, Fits Many, look at auction to see! - eBay (item 380155543914 end time Aug-29-10 20:32:30 PDT)

 

[Brad M]

For those that don't have a NAPA around or just want it delivered and not go to the store I found it on eBay for $12.94 shipped but you can also test the make an offer button and see if you can get it cheaper

Starter Solenoid, Fits Many, look at auction to see! - eBay (item 380155543914 end time Aug-29-10 20:32:30 PDT)

Ordered 8/1/10
Arrived 8/4/10
Installed 8/5/10

Took less than 30min if you plan ahead and have everything you need.

Makes a clear and distinct click now when the starter relay engages.

At $12.94 it is cheap insurance and well worth the time and monetary cost.

Thank you Doghead and Realm for this and anyone else who contributed great info.

 

[tamecrow]

Just picked mine up at the Kubota dealer today. Part # 33-334. Made by Oregon Outdoor Equipment Parts. Will install it tomorrow. Thanks to all involved with this mod.

 

[tamecrow]

For those of you that might go to your local power equipment company be advised that there are two types of this solenoid used. One has 1/4'' large posts the other has 5/16'' large posts. You want the one with the 5/16'' posts as the internal contacts are stronger. The 1/4'' will work the same as.

Good point. Good enough to make me change my mind and install a ford solenoid. Much heavier then either of the lawn tractor ones. I had to relocate it, and isolate the grounded mount, but that's no problem, lots of room under the dash. Now I can relax when I start my truck. Glad I read here about this problem before it happened to me.

 

[doghead]

Tamecrow, when you used a "Ford" starter relay, you did not need to "isolate" the ground.( you do realize there are dozens of relays that LOOK like a Ford starter relay, but are not wired the same or function the same or have a variety of capacities?) Without a part number, people can only guess what your talking about)

The automobile relays that are commonly refered to as a "Ford" starter relay, are typically rated for 250-450 amps(depending on manufacturer/quality)

The "pull in" coil on a "ford"relay draws more power than the relay I called for in the "Doghead" mod.

The relay in the "Doghead Modification" is rated at 200 amps.(The original AC40 relay is rated at 40 amps). Consider that the wires that are used in the relay starting circuit are only capable of about 60 amps.

There was a very good reason I chose the relay, that I did. If you use anything else, I suggest you NOT post it here, you will only confuse others that do not have the understanding needed to make good choices on their own. ( bigger is not always better)


Please re-read post #22

 

[tamecrow]

Doghead, I bought the ford relay at a starter shop. I did this after I couldn't locate a solenoid locally with 5/16 posts. No idea which vehicle it fits. I asked the guy for a ford solenoid, and he asked me one or two post. Both had a grounded mount. I used a diode to help prevent damage to the ignition switch.

The only reason I went with the ford solenoid was concern that the solenoid I bought was underrated, as pointed out by Ralbelt, even though the spec sheet shows it to be identical to the relay you used.

I wasn't trying to confuse anyone, and certainly wasn't trying to say the ford solenoid was an improvement to the one you used, it was simply what I had available to me at the time. After all, if it weren't for your mod, I'd be having an electrical meltdown at some point down the road. Thanks again.

 

[doghead]

Ralbelt, could you share the specs for the relays you mentioned?

iirc, the Relay I chose, is manufactured by Trombetta. It has 1/4" top studs and is 200 amp rated. ( there is also another relay that is similar but only rated for 100 amps and that still is more than enough)

I don't recall a choice with 5/16" studs.

I hate to add too much to this thread, that it confuses everyone!

 

[Matt65]

I have been putting this off for a while now. It's been tough for me to replace what's not yet broken in favor of a part off a lawn mower. In any event, it seems to be good PM with positive results.

I hope to make it to Napa and pick up Napa# 7-01860-1 (SME line) with the 5/16'' studs rated at 200Amps mentioned here. I will reply with an update when I get around to this.

 

[doghead]

If the original application of the modification relay bothers you, I'll find suitable relay used on the Space Shuttle.

It won't be readily available in all 50 states, it will cost a few thousand dollars, and it wont have billions of existing examples out there(best proven option).


Don't change yours before you have a problem, we'll all say "I told you so" as soon as your original over taxed under-designed relay ruins your wiring, batteries and starter.


btw, I have found relays with 5/16" studs that are only rated at 80 amps(don't be fooled)~!

Matt, your post above will confuse people, you listed the part number and the wrong size studs(for that part number). This is how threads turn confusing and useless!

 

[Matt65]

your post above will confuse people, you listed the part number and the wrong size studs(for that part number). This is how threads turn confusing and useless!

You make a good point. I was indeed a little confused by reading this thread. I thought that the: Napa# 7-01860-1 (SME line) with the 5/16'' studs rated at 200Amps was correct due to the information below:

You want the one with the 5/16'' posts as the internal contacts are stronger.

The relay in the "Doghead Modification" is rated at 200 amps

1. Buy Napa part# 7-01860-1 (SME line)

I just want to make sure I get the correct part. So to clarify: I need the 7-01860-1 rated at 200A with 1/4" studs

 

[doghead]

yes

 

[Brett09]

Thank you for posting this. I pulled the old relay apart after I replaced it and there was a point on one of the contacts where it started arcing into the other contact. It was only a matter of time before it failed and cost me some bucks and a whole lot of heartache.

 

[Sardot1]

If the original application of the modification relay bothers you, I'll find suitable relay used on the Space Shuttle.

It won't be readily available in all 50 states, it will cost a few thousand dollars, and it wont have billions of existing examples out there(best proven option).

And how log will it take for the EUC to clear for that?

My M1009 is arriving Friday (yeah!) and thanks to this site, the starter relay replacement will be one of the first things I do to it...already have the parts on the way.

I was thinking that while I'm in there also maybe putting in a switch on the 24V wire from the relay to the starter in case the relay does stick sometime down the road. Maybe it would be overkill though, if the relay replacement is done, but it would be there just in case. But then I thought that maybe this would also double as a hidden anti-theft kill switch. With the switch open (off), any attempt to start the truck would result in a click from the relay and no starter cranking.

See any problem with using this as a hidden kill switch? Or is there a better place in the electrical system for one?

 

[RedHeadTarn]

I did this to my 1028 and it works great. No problems, and I like the anti-theft aspect. There's no kill like overkill!

 

[doghead]

I was thinking that while I'm in there also maybe putting in a switch on the 24V wire from the relay to the starter in case the relay does stick sometime down the road. Maybe it would be overkill though, if the relay replacement is done, but it would be there just in case. But then I thought that maybe this would also double as a hidden anti-theft kill switch. With the switch open (off), any attempt to start the truck would result in a click from the relay and no starter cranking.

See any problem with using this as a hidden kill switch? Or is there a better place in the electrical system for one?

You do NOT need to add a toggle switch to protect your vehicle from having a starter run-on with the new relay. The whole purpose of the relay modification(using a relay rated at 200 amps) is to ELIMINATE the weak link(the original 40 amp relay)

Not only is there a huge amp rating increase in the relay with this modification, but by design difference of the original relay and the new relay, you will not experience the run-on. The new relay is internally built differently and DOES NOT commonly(ever that I have seen), fail in the on position.

If you were to add a toggle switch in-line with the relay, it will be your NEW WEAK LINK! Toggle switches are not rated for high amps(commonly 5-40amps)! That's what RELAYS DO(safely switch high amp loads). So,if you insist that you want a "Theft deterrent switch" install it on the PURPLE with WHITE tracer wire(key switch). That circuit(signal to the relay) is low amp and a 20 amp rated switch should not fail there. (but understand that this would not protect you if the relay stuck on,but the new 200 amp relay is NOT going to stick on)

I personally do not think adding a toggle switch as a security measure, is either needed or a good idea.

I would suggest you buy a new key cylinder and take your key out of the ignition, if you want more security than the original key.

If your confused by all this information, then you should not be adding to the original thread content or modifying your wiring without following proper instructions. (all posts since post#28, have only added confusion, in my opinion). Prior that that, it was factual and instructional

Let's try to keep the basics of this thread simple and easy to understand. I think maybe, further discussion should be added in a new thread with a link to it added here(if it's even needed).

I have been considering closing this thread, just to keep it simple and instructional.