• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

early-80's armor field ops

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
M48A5! Thought most of those went to National Guard units….
yes they did .. the particular ones pictured had left their batallion as M48A3's , were rebuilt , and came back as A5's with the M60A1 gun platform and the RISE standard.. At the time of these pics , this BN's A5's had been fitted with improved IR, stabilized M68 gun, and other updates which put them at equal gunnery footing with the M60A1 and they got increased armor protection via RISE updates.. In my experience in that BN, they were not a horrible tank and were much-better on fuel than any Abrams then and since. Although outdated and outclassed by todays armor, they were still an effective tank with a good crew, no different than the M60-series
 
Last edited:

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
Some even went to a few less fortunate south American governments, basically making them even more less fortunate...
why would you say less fortunate? The A5's certainly are better than anything older and their M60A1 gun system was a huge improvement over the M48A3.. The A5's in my pictures had IR sights/scopes and other updates which put them equal with the M60A1. Very late on, a few in the BN had LRF retrofit kits for training as they were to soon receive M60A3's.. Yes I am aware that not all A5's received all the good stuff, it depended on how critical a BN's mission was, and maybe that is why you perhaps have a poor opinion of the A5. In my experiences with that particular BN, although the A5's were outdated, they were not a horrible tank and both the A5's and M60's with the RISE engines and crossdrives have certain better mechanical attributes than any Abrams then and since. Although the A5 and M60 are obviously outclassed by the 120mm version of the abrams, the A5's are still an effective tank with a good crew. The follow statements are based on my memories of situations discussed during NCO meetings in the early-late 80's .. The A5's were a "Poor man's M60" , a budgetary and defensive decision to upgrade a large number of M48A3's to M60A1-RISE standards, becoming the M48A5, beginning late 1975-76 in response to the heightened Threat in europe at the time, instead of active units losing a chunk of their M60 inventory to the NG or having to "buy" new M60's during a time when the country was in deep recession and suffered severe military budget cuts. Not a lot was known about the improved soviet T72's, and soon after that came the "Scary T80," but of what was known, it was feared the latest Soviet versions made even the M60-series seem outclassed and obsolete. Development and testing of what would become the Abrams was still at an iffy state by the mid-1970's, of particular concern was that never-before-tried turbine engine. Most of you know the M1 was not fielded until 1980 and yet it still had problems. Thus, certain critical NG armor units slated for planned activation/deployment to West Germany trained hard with the A5's in the states with its M68 main gun platform, the idea being that crews could easily switch over to the M60A1 and vice-versa and be just as effective. The creation of the M48A5 is what standardized tank ammo and critical parts acquisition as well. During NCO meetings of which i was part in the early-late 80's there was quite a bit of pride that this particular (NG) BN's M48A5 tank crews (using drawn M60A1's in West Germany) were outgunning certain active tankers during exercises over there, and I had seen the trophies (plaques) and special uniform pocket tabs they received.. Of course as the M1 was improved, M60's were gradually released to the NG. Years later when this particular BN had to turn in their M60A3's for early-model M1's with the 105mm gun, I recall many crews expressing they liked their M60's better (some even said A5's) .. But the abrams had always been a work in progress from the beginning, and it clearly became one helluva tank .. By the way, Greece, Korea, and Turkey are still fielding the largest herds of A5's anywhere, last I knew. For anyone to "dis" the M48A5's that I worked several years with is to likewise dis the M60, M60A1, M60A3
 
Last edited:

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
The M48A5's lived on here in Germany, becoming AVLB's.
I believe it ! I do recall seeing M48A3-based or perhaps A5-based AVLB's on occasion as late as the early-mid 1990s in the states , but no idea how long they lasted here. Long ago there was talk our Brigade had at least a BN-sized number of A5's sitting in WGermany kept in operational status in the early-mid 80's.
I had not witnessed it myself and never had the opportunity to look at armor inventory documentation to prove or disprove it. All I positively know on that subject is remembering some of our selected BN crews who went to WGermany to compete (and apparently be part of some of the Reforger's) vented about the hassle of turning-in borrowed M60A1's over there .. But many on here already know turn-in of any rolling equip (or broken crates of ammo) can be a huge hassle anywhere :ROFLMAO:
 
Last edited:

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
Awesome! I was a USMC tanker on M60A1 RISE-Passive, so I find these experiences with M48A5s very informative! Thanks for posting/sharing
both M48A5 tank BN's in "our" Brigade had the stabilized M68 main gun, IR sights and periscopes, the IR-selective searchlight, M60A1-RISE powerpacks and crossdrive, the NBC system, and the RISE hull upgrade , to the least of my recollection ..No TTS , and obviously no ERA .. I recall crews training with a few A5's having LRF retrofit kits later on, but this was not widespread since the units received M60A3's shortly after .. The M48-series had served over 25 years in this particular BG before they got (very briefly) M60A3's, and lastly the Abrams.

They found the Abrams too expensive to maintain. Thus under political and budgetary pressure, they were shipped out by rail and both Armor BN's were deactivated, to transition into a "specialized" infantry/cav Mountain regiment. I participated in the "retirement of colors" ceremony in 2006 as one of the several "old-timers" who had heard about it and showed up... It was an end of a proud era of heavy armor, although the unit has WW2 streamers as a combat infantry regiment in Guadalcanal, New Guinea, Solomons, and Phillipines under the 43rd ID , landing over there in 1942. Was federalized a 4-year stint during Korea. It would become armor in 1959 in response to the growing threat in Germany, and the Armor colors were retired in 2006. Unit was soon to add Iraq and Afghanistan streamers fighting as an infantry regiment (Mountain). It has been closely aligned with the 10th Mountain since the early 2000's.. Was Federalized again last year, involved with the evac of Kabul .. Not bad for a bunch of former "motley tankers." ;) But of course, the number of former tank vets who had stayed aboard was just a handful of senior NCO's and "Colonel-plusses" by the time the 2000's came around .. I had road-tested and licensed some of those "Colonel-plusses " when they were butterbars fresh out of OCS.. During the 2006 ceremony there was an awful lot of new blood, the line units present were 99% unrecognizable to me. How time passes
 
Last edited:

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
Some on here may find interest and be surprised to learn that the basic (straight) M60 was still in use at Ft Hood TX as late as the summer of 1987, at the least, almost 30 years after its development. A very good friend was part of a fire & maneuver tactical night exercise utilizing several of these straight M60's drawn from the 49th AD "Lone Star".. There were fatalities that night but need not go into that, almost everything has its risks, regardless how new or old the equipment is
 
Last edited:

shootER

Member
37
9
8
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Some on here may find interest and be surprised to learn that the basic (straight) M60 was still in use at Ft Hood TX as late as the summer of 1987, at the least, almost 30 years after its development. A very good friend was part of a fire & maneuver tactical night exercise utilizing several of these straight M60's drawn from the 49th AD "Lone Star".. There were fatalities that night but need not go into that, almost everything has its risks, regardless how new or old the equipment is
Yes. A friend of mine was a tank crew evaluator for that AT and got injured in that incident.

49th AD turned in their slick 60s and got A3s in 1988.
 

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
Yes. A friend of mine was a tank crew evaluator for that AT and got injured in that incident.
49th AD turned in their slick 60s and got A3s in 1988.
My friend was a TC / Platoon Leader with 172nd armor from VT, under the 86th BDE, a long-time combat arm of the 50th AD. Before that, the 86th was a combat arm of the 43rd ID in the Pacific theater '42-'45.. He was not part of the Ft Hood incident that night but was participating in a different part of the exercise when it happened.. Half of my Trans section was there with the tanks but I was working elsewhere.. In late '86 they were no longer under the 50AD. During the Ft Hood incident, Vermont armor was under new command of the 26th ID .. He did not say if it was a VT crew or TX crew that made the oops. I don't need to know. It was very unfortunate and shouldn't have happened ..

Of historical note: The 49th and 50th AD were the very first NG armor divisions, authorized October 1945 and organized during 1946.. In due time, other NG armor divs were formed such the 27th, 30th, 40th, and 48th, but those eventually would be inactivated between '68 and '73.. The 49th AD and 50th AD were notably the first to come and the last to go .. The 50th AD was headquartered in NJ and had the highest number of years (47) of continuous uninterrupted service out of all the NG armor divisions... In 1986, the entire VT 86th BDE with it's Tank BN's, Heavy Artillery (M109), other combat arms and support units left the 50th AD to be put into the 26th ID (yankee div) due to the 86th's high level of readiness and long-time reputation.. What then remained of the 50AD continued to defragment into other units until it was finally inactivated in '93 .. In the early-90's after the Soviet collapse, the 26th ID was also inactivated thus the entire VT 86BDE with its Tank BN's, Artillery, etc was bumped yet again, this time into the 42nd ID (rainbow).. During the 2000's, portions of the VT brigade were activated for state, federal , and overseas service a number of times. As of 2006, no tanks exist in VT except those on display around the state and at the VT military museum. None of them an Abrams as far as I have seen. Maintaining/operating the Abrams was a huge budgetary problem for the state. Several former VT tankers and artillerymen that had served during the 50AD/26ID/42ID years would later go on with the VT 86BDE to serve with or command infanty and cav in Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan attached to the US 3rd Army. Certain units within the brigade may had been attached to units other than the 3rd Army but I have not confirmed it yet. ..

After the inactivation of the 50th AD in 1993, the 49th AD headquartered in Texas was the last to carry on. Other than a 1967-73 inactivation, the 49th served for 52 years. It was lastly inactivated in 2004 and its armor BNs were absorbed by the 36th ID (arrowhead). But immediately before that, certain elements of the 49th AD were in Bosnia and Iraq as part of the last reserve-component US armor division that existed. If I recall correctly, certain veterans of the 49th have the distinction of being the only Army National Guard soldiers authorized to wear an armor division patch on their right shoulder since WW2
 
Last edited:

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
20220207_192526.jpg\

the el-tee yells from the cab, "Get them lousy tankers over here to help unload their own willy pete !!!" (severe editing in effect). #36 was one of the few A2's that OMS swapped its multifuel out with a mack ENDT-673 .. At the time, batallion command would take promising officers out of their tanks and have them run other sections for 6 months to a year to round them out with these experiences in order to see if they fit command's future intentions. "Grooming" if you will. A good prospect for CO should know hands-on how every section of a company operates

20220207_192732.jpg el-tee on a better-mood day at a tank range ammo point, 1983 .M151A2




20220207_192804.jpg

Not quite a year later, el-tee was promoted and got the title "Captain Crunch" with his own tank company .. (there's a story behind the "crunch" ;) ). His fast M48a5 was named "Superman II" in honor of an uncle's M4 Sherman that survived North Africa and Italy
 
Last edited:

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
71137165_762615040862673_1814897937696686080_n.jpg


while captain crunch (above) was saddled with the drudgeries of tank ops in "wonderful" weather conditions, I got to goof off a time or two, even steal someones jeep for a quick spin, in between my own daily dealings. (M151A2)

100782694_102345921506968_7297037719509663744_n.jpg

20230303_121243 copy.jpg (early Mack-powered M52A1, downswept exhaust, M127A1C trailer


100373493_102345851506975_741570689709899776_n.jpg

One of my best CO's awarded me the use of his jeep (early M151A1) for one weekend.. "...and keep whatever you're gonna do far away from cantonment ! .. I don't wanna know what your boys are gonna be up to and don't wanna find out !! " .. The only thing i can disclose from the post-op report about the 2 days/nights of covert off-duty off-road activity was the jeep spent 2 hours at the wash rack before it was returned sunday night .. We made Aberdeen look like a cakewalk. I don't know how we managed not to break the jeep in half, but our backs hurt like hell all week after .. PS; operations support is in place when you already own the extra set of keys to the fuel trucks ;)

100848339_102345964840297_2050786530959556608_n.jpg
 
Last edited:

Guyfang

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
16,924
24,543
113
Location
Burgkunstadt, Germany
The three thugs who took it worked for me. We were supposed to be locked down for an upcoming FTX. Thug #1, told the gate guard "We will be right back, and bring you a case too"! The Gasthaus down below was a 6-7 min drive. 6 hours later, they cam back to our site towing the jeep with a 1954 Lanz tractor, and parked it on the motor line, like no one would see it! I could have died. I, like everyone else, played Sgt. Schultz. "I know nutzink! Took Top about 10 min to find the only three people on site with cuts and bruses on their faces, from the roll over. 😂
 

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
some more personal fun from long ago ,, We got overrun and captured by these guys ,, 1980

20230303_124906 copy.jpg



This track ran outa fuel the night before, stranded almost 24 hours .. Were happy to see my ugly a** .. 1984


20230303_125020 copy.jpg

Chopping wood. (not quite). 1981


20230303_125315 copy.jpg

Not what you want to meet at 50mph with a trailer full of willy-pete .. 1980 . . One of our tank companies on a tactical patrol after completing TT-7 .. We all slowed down some, got over some, and every other tank swung their barrel out of my way.. I was headed up to deliver a load for the companies still at that particular range about 9 miles up.. This was the only good wide part of the trail , glad to have met them here and not head-on on one of the narrow curves farther up.. We all ran this trail hard and fast, it was rare to meet anyone else on it

20230303_125346 copy.jpg


C Co. heading to the wash racks, 15 days in the field, no rain, no clean clothes, no shower point, creeks dried up.. Everybody was smelling rather ripe ! .. 1984


20230303_125523 copy.jpg



This slick hosed us .. Had a surprise CS-gas fogger on board !!! o_O 1983

20230303_131413 copy.jpg


Go left .. Check that... Go Right . Wait, where the heck is the lead track in this dust? 1984


20230303_131635 copy.jpg



Tank's Internal Comm crackles "Driver, let's wait here to see if those fools in that headquarters track get ambushed" 1984


20230303_131702 copy.jpg



TC says, "hey! there's a damned fool ! Gunner, traverse right !!!" 1984

20230303_132307 copy.jpg


tactical patrol 1985



20230303_121317 copy.jpg
 
Last edited:

msgjd

Well-known member
1,112
3,415
113
Location
upstate ny
Very cool, thanks! Really enjoy seeing the M48A5 in action!
The pics below are not mine but are of my former BN ... Most of its tanks (@50 per BN) were stored at Ft Drum NY, others were supposedly stored combat-ready in W.Germany, and about 3 dozen were scattered around unit facilities and training areas in Vermont, per each Bn.. Wish I had gotten an inventory list back then, I know the two BN's together had an awful lot of tanks, we had to fuel them !!!! And haul/handle their ammo !! They sure kept us busy day/nite.. Overall, the field training was constant, year-round, aggressive, harder and more draining than my active duty combat engineer (horizontal) experience.. Look up 86th Brigade on wiki, they generalize it but you will get the jist. Tough crowd
IMAG1329.jpg
IMAG1322.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks