- 978
- 1,402
- 93
- Location
- Wilson County, Texas
I will PM you.Sure. Wife is out of town this weekend, where shall we meet?
Hondo would be good. I have a client developing a project in Natalia and visiting the site would be good for me, too—
Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
I will PM you.Sure. Wife is out of town this weekend, where shall we meet?
Hondo would be good. I have a client developing a project in Natalia and visiting the site would be good for me, too—
It is probably not the transmission. Spinning it at lower RPM would probably cause a little less gear friction heat, but the heat generated is more a factor of the load placed upon the gears, and that is really a factor of the work they are being asked to perform. If the truck is the same weight, transmission load has not really changed.I noticed before I changed to eco hubs, my truck would get up to temp pretty fast less than 5 min of driving at highway. Now my truck has a harder time getting up to 200 deg. I wonder if the heat production is from the transmission having to spool at such a high rpm. It would be nice to see a temp that the transmission runs at now with eco hubs.
Can confirm the EFI engines will roll coal till they get some heat in them. Not much, but it's there. And the C7's have HUGE catalytic converters inside the muffler assembly. They definitely want to get the engine up to temp as quick as they can (excess fuel can damage the converter) and actually I wouldn't be surprised if the ECM complained if the engine didn't get up to operating temp withing a specified timeframe. Not unusual to see that behavior on modern computer controlled engines.As mentioned, on the A0 they sent all the bypass coolant to the trans cooler, so until the trans warms up and starts making heat, it will absorb all the heat the engine produces. They didn’t do this on the A1, probably because the EFI system those engines employ really want stable warm temps to perform cleanly…
I already knew I'd like them, but driving the truck above at over 70mph down Highway 90 in south Texas & is being easier to talk than 58mph in my truck... wow! I have a basic model vs an A1, but no doubt, the fact you can roll at basically idle is so nice. Great to meet another owner that's not far away too.First test drive with the ECO HUBS went fabulously. Much quieter, smoother, cooler (hovered near 200, fan did not kick on), and she cruises at 60 like she is walking diligently. When the transmission hits that next gear at 60+ she leaps forward like she wants to run.
View attachment 907041
Thank you @Xengineguy. I haven't had her off road yet, though first steps are pointing toward awesome adventures ahead.
And thank you to @GeneralDisorder, @Ronmar, @Third From Texas, and all the others for helping along the way—
Welcome to the dark sideI already knew I'd like them, but driving the truck above at over 70mph down Highway 90 in south Texas & is being easier to talk than 58mph in my truck... wow! I have a basic model vs an A1, but no doubt, the fact you can roll at basically idle is so nice. Great to meet another owner that's not far away too.
Told myself, & I gotta stick to it, the OEM A/C kit has to be installed before I even order these hubs because I am behind on projects. I need to hurry up!
OEM AC is a job. Took me a year in total before I charged it and had it operational.I already knew I'd like them, but driving the truck above at over 70mph down Highway 90 in south Texas & is being easier to talk than 58mph in my truck... wow! I have a basic model vs an A1, but no doubt, the fact you can roll at basically idle is so nice. Great to meet another owner that's not far away too.
Told myself, & I gotta stick to it, the OEM A/C kit has to be installed before I even order these hubs because I am behind on projects. I need to hurry up!
I enjoyed meeting Colt this weekend, and picked up some of his CTIS hub rebuild kits, too.I already knew I'd like them, but driving the truck above at over 70mph down Highway 90 in south Texas & is being easier to talk than 58mph in my truck... wow! I have a basic model vs an A1, but no doubt, the fact you can roll at basically idle is so nice. Great to meet another owner that's not far away too.
Told myself, & I gotta stick to it, the OEM A/C kit has to be installed before I even order these hubs because I am behind on projects. I need to hurry up!
I would like to definitely
purchase. Finally, great job all. 4x4 LMTV 1079A1 (PM me, ASAP and will get it rolling). Thanks so much.
I know I’m going to get flamed, but here we go. PLEASE DO NOT ASK ABOUT PURCHASING ACCEPT THRU PM.
I just finished an up grade to my 1078. DELEATED the hub 2:1 gear reduction. I built direct drive hubs that can be
installed in 20 to 30 minutes per wheel. Doesn’t harm the original reduction system,(that can be reinstalled in
20 to 30 min). NO shim changes, ( the shims stay in place).
The difference in noise and power is dramatic. The noise was 45 mph 80 db, 50 83 db, 55 84db, 60 85 db.
Now the noise is 45 69db,50 70db, 55 71db, 61 74db. This may not seem like a lot but it is! I now have wind noise
that I never heard before! I can hear my blinker click at 45 mph or below!
Now the fun stuff. Before the change my 1mph to 60 was 28 seconds! Now it’s 19.78. 1mph to 40 was 14.63
now its 8.75!
Before anyone comments that somehow I’m going to break axles, transfer case, rear end, etc etc. Consider that
all those components are designed to withstand the maximum torque of the engine plus quite a bit more .
The maximum engine torque is the same. The only difference is the torque to the wheel has dropped 50 percent
if you look at the gear ratio only.
In the near future I will test its ability to pull loads on trailer. If I had to guess this will Be much better performance than before. The engine is happy in the power band where it belongs.
I invite anyone with a Lmtv that’s considering a gear swap to come to NE Indiana and drive mine. You will be impressed! Yes I plan on offering a kit to do this conversion, firming up details now. The first run will be 12 sets.
The cost will be around 2200/ 2400.00 Each set. 4 hubs. If there is enough interest…. Sorry for the long post.View attachment 891540View attachment 891541View attachment 891542View attachment 891543View attachment 891544
Anyone interested in purchasing a set, please post in the sales thread:
ECO DIRECT DRIVE HUBS
Availability to be announced. First 10 sets will be ready soon. Tested on M1078 will fit others also. At the request of moderators please use this thread for sales related questions. Let me know if you have interest in a set by posting here . Thank you! For more information and ordering...www.steelsoldiers.com
My hubs leak as-well, mostly from the caps, I parked on a side hill then took off the caps and put RTV to seal them better.Since I now have about 3200 miles behind the wheel in an ECO Hub equipped truck, and drove in all kinds of conditions on my journey from Maryland to California, I thought I would post my thoughts. Keep in mind that these thoughts are coming from someone who only had about 4 miles behind the wheel with the stock hubs, so I essentially have zero point of reference in that respect.
The journey was uneventful, mostly, from a truck standpoint. Truck literally ran like a Swiss watch mechanically. I have some electrical niggles to sort out relative to the charging system, did the drive with the battery protection box disconnected because it kept disconnecting the batteries for no reason. I also have an oil leak at the front of the motor after the install of the AC compressor bracket, and I need to redo the install of the ECO Hubs because they are leaking. The seller of the truck installed the hubs for me, along with the AC and cruise control before I arrived, he has several businesses related to these trucks and habitats for them. He actually makes the AC brackets Acela uses . Anyway, he said he followed the instructions to a T and watched Mike's video, but something obviously happened because three out of four hubs are leaking, one front hub quite badly. Anyway, the seller is a super nice guy, I spent two and a half days working on the truck side by side with him and now consider him a friend,
On to the hubs. My truck is a 2008 M1078 A1R with a C7 running the 370HP tune with an Alison 3700S behind it. With the eco hubs, the truck goes like stink for a truck with something like an 18,000 curb weight. The new aluminum wheels/tires I had delivered to Maryland unfortunately seem to have some out of round issues so the vast majority of the trip was at 58 - 60 MPH. If the road was really smooth, I could drive 65 - 75 MPH comfortably. When I have the leaks sorted I'll spend some time with a go pro under the truck to see which tire/tires are the issues. This was the first vehicle the seller had installed Eco Hubs on and when he went into Baltimore to pick up my aluminum wheels he said he had the truck up to 80mph and it was the smoothest riding LMTV he had ever driven. Go figure, the steel wheels with zero balancing and crappy old 2008 tires had zero vibration issues and my new $5000 aluminum wheels/tires bounce like a poggo stick. Eco Hubs allow you to so easily travel at normal freeway speeds that the tires/wheels become the limiting factor. My truck is dead smooth up to 56 - 58 mph. Once you hit 60, it's a mess. With stock gearing, this would never be a factor.
Okay, back to the hubs. To me, the ideal scenario would be if the stock ring and pinion gearing was lower than 307. I don't need my LMTV to go 116 mph, and would prefer the lower gears off road. I haven't done any real off roading yet, but did put it in Mode for some short dirt excursions and would prefer lower gearing. It's likely fine for how I will use the truck, but I would prefer lower gearing off road. With the Eco hubs, 7th gear is basically an overdrive, my truck wouldn't shift into 7th until 67 mph, and to me, 65mph is the ideal cruising speed for the truck, so you basically end up with a 6 speed unless you plan to drive faster than 65 a lot. It just feels right at 65, but that's just my opinion. In the mountains in Colorado, the trans hunted back and forth between 5th and 6th a lot. I have the Alison software but haven't played with it at all. I hear it's quite powerful software, but tuff to get working when you aren't an Alison certified shop. Too risky for me anyway, so I plan to search out a good heavy duty Alison tech and see what can be done relative to tailoring the trans to the gearing. The truck will pull 6th for ever, lugging itself down and won't downshift unless you bury your foot in the pedal. I think tuning the trans to the gearing would make a huge improvement. Amazingly, I consistently averaged 9 - 10 MPG, hand calculated of course. That's pretty amazing for a truck of this size and weight, that is like pushing a hotel through the wind. My Ram AEV Prospector XL has 335/80 R20 Continental MPT 81's on it, is Cummins powered, and I get 12 - 13 mpg. It's less than half the weight of my S&S and waaaay more aerodynamic. 9 -10 in an S&S is impressive.
Now, one thing that is an absolute must in my opinion if you are going to travel in the mountains with an Eco Hub equipped truck is an exhaust brake. The switch in my truck is missing, the seller is sending me one along with some other stuff, and given the rust on the linkage of my pack brake, I'm guessing it would stick closed if I used it right now. It will be on my shortlist of things to get working though as it is a must in the mountains with Eco Hubs. The gearing is so tall, when the road turns down hill, the truck just takes off. It's amazing how quickly it picks up speed. You're left with nothing but your service brakes without an exhaust brake and that isn't fun on long steep mountain grades. I guess I'm spoiled by the automatic setting on the exhaust brake in my Ram that just automatically modulates the exhaust brake to keep you at the speed you are going when you take your foot off the pedal. I know the application of the Pac brake on the S&S isn't great. I hear it way too aggressively downshifts the trans to 3rd gear when the Pac brake is engaged. Again, hoping either in the TCM or ECM this can be programmed out. If not, I'll wire around the truck electronics and just make the pac brake manual. The trans also isn't very aggressive about down shifting, yes you can manually down shift, but it's of limited help unless you downshift to the point you are piss winding the motor. On freeway off ramps, the trans doesn't downshift until you are almost at a stop.
So, I probably have said some things that would make one think I'm not totally stoked on the Eco Hubs, but that isn't the case. I would absolutely buy them again. Is it the perfect setup, no, but definitely better than 307 gears in my opinion for the simplicity and efficiency you gain by deleting the planetary gears, not to mention the cost savings. And, they would be the perfect setup if you installed lower ring and pinion gears. Drivability on road is really good and will only get better with some trans tuning. I'm guessing, either in the TCM or ECM, there is somewhere where the gearing is set. So now, the trans thinks the truck has stock gearing, but in fact the gearing literally twice as high. That has to affect how the trans shifts. I know it makes a huge difference in my Ram.
Sorry for the long ramble and rabbit holes into things not directly related to Eco Hubs
I'm not surprised in the least.Go figure, the steel wheels with zero balancing and crappy old 2008 tires had zero vibration issues
I don't think it has to do with the gearing or the hubs. The vibration issues from the tires would still present themselves, just at different speeds.Once you hit 60, it's a mess. With stock gearing, this would never be a factor.
At the end f the day, this is why I want the ECO hubs. I can't imagine the truck ever lacking to power. My current 4mpg sucks...Amazingly, I consistently averaged 9 - 10 MPG
My original 2008 tires were perfectly smooth after 6 months of driving on them (including the 2800 miles home - it still took 6 months for them to "round out" and be really smooth). Then had a blow out on the front. My 2021 tires are getting better the more I drive them. Sitting doesn't help the tires - new or old. They seem to respond well to daily driving.I'm not surprised in the least.
My 2008 A1R with OEM rims and 2008 Goodyears is smooth as silk on the highway. No balancing of the tires or even the driveshaft.
I don't think it has to do with the gearing or the hubs. The vibration issues from the tires would still present themselves, just at different speeds.
The PAC brake isn't nearly as effective with the ECO hubs as it was before. It helps but not nearly as much as the transmission downshifting. The FMTV PAC Brake does have a tendency to seize up - mine did at one point and I had to remove it and "service" it aggressively in my bench vise quite a bit. Hasn't had an issue since but other guys have not had my luck it seems.:
I put about 8,000 miles on my truck before the hubs, and have about 3,000 on it with the hubs and I don't find that the transmission shift behavior needs any adjustment - other than being smoother because it better loads the converter, it's not significantly different other than which gear you are in for a given ground speed. If it shifted sooner it would put you below peak torque in the next gear and that would not be efficient. The transmission doesn't know or care what your ground speed (IE: gearing) is - it's shift behavior is governed by throttle input and input/output speed and it's programming is based on engine specs - peak torque, governed redline, etc. In the Allison software it doesn't even show ground speed that I have found. I have poked around in the software quite a bit and not found anything that I thought would be useful to change....... have contemplated seeing if I could set the PAC brake to stay engaged down into 2nd gear but as I noted the PAC brake is much less effective with the ECO hubs so I haven't bothered. You almost didn't even need the service brakes with the reduction hubs and the exhaust brake but now it just gives you a gentle drag when it engages.
I've done four complete ECO hub installs - two 4x4 and two 6x6 and none of them leak from anywhere using my sealant of choice:
It's not really a big deal - @Lostchain pulls his M1082 with ECO hubs and has no issues. It makes sense when you think about it - for a given road speed the engine RPM's are half what they used to be with the reduction hubs so slowing down airflow through the engine with a cork in the exhaust is half as effective. Remember though that A0 trucks didn't even have one. It still helps - just only half as much and you do still have the warmup capability also. Gaining +3 mpg and engine/transmission longevity is more than worth the loss of half the PAC brake effectiveness in my opinion.Disappointed to hear about the PAC brake loosing effectiveness.
I kinda figured that the trans woould need a re-tune after the ECO hubs were added too the equation. Going to have to see what people are doing with regards to this.
But damn, the loose off the effective PAC brake may be a deal breaker for me. I use mine ALL the time when the trailer is attached (or it's raining badly). It came in real handy in the Texas Hill Country, too. I figure it will be needed to get around the Rockies.
I'll have to watch what you guys come up with.
I wasn't implying it had anything to do with the gearing or hubs, just that with stock gearing you aren't able to drive fast enough for it to become an issue.I don't think it has to do with the gearing or the hubs. The vibration issues from the tires would still present themselves, just at different speeds.
Yeah I can see an issue with it having highway gears and Eco hubs. I don't think it's ideal that the two be combined.I wasn't implying it had anything to do with the gearing or hubs, just that with stock gearing you aren't able to drive fast enough for it to become an issue.