coachgeo
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Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
ECO Hubs Who needs 3:07 gears?
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coachgeo
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Did you keep the hub bolt same bolt/thread as the OEM? Only asking cause those bolts will also screw into the end of the axle shaft.... so like if you needed towing... you can use that bolt to grab and pull rear axle shafts.... then tower can just lift tow from the front.
Oh....... wait.... with that in mind...... will this hub allow for pulling the rear axle shafts out and roll on back wheels?
Oh....... wait.... with that in mind...... will this hub allow for pulling the rear axle shafts out and roll on back wheels?
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The adapter is bolted to the inner wheel hub with the same size bolts. 3/8” 16. So yes it will fit the axle. The aluminium hub cap
is bolted to the hub with 4 10/32 stainless Allen screws. Yes you can pull the cap and remove the axle for whatever reason.
Looks like the hubs will be done Monday and off to heat treat!
PLEASE USE PM FOR PURCHASE QUESTIONS THANK YOU !
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Second time I've had to clean up the thread about sales/purchasing. I'm sorry, but 3rd time and it gets locked.
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Ok everyone, please don’t ask about purchasing on the general forum. It’s ok to ask technical questions, how parts are made etc.
Just started a thread in the vendors for sale section, if you have sales questions I will try to answer them in that section.
If you have interest in a set of hubs please let me know in that section. Some of your requests were deleted because it was not in a for sale section. I will continue to post updates here, hopefully we all can learn something in the process. Sorry for the confusion.
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/eco-direct-drive-hubs.213924/ Link
Just started a thread in the vendors for sale section, if you have sales questions I will try to answer them in that section.
If you have interest in a set of hubs please let me know in that section. Some of your requests were deleted because it was not in a for sale section. I will continue to post updates here, hopefully we all can learn something in the process. Sorry for the confusion.
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/eco-direct-drive-hubs.213924/ Link
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spankybear
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Now if you can make locking hubs with these...
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The FMTV is AWD and if you were to "unlock" a hub the truck wouldn't move without putting it in MODE. I don't really see a use case for that feature - are you thinking of that combined with some sort of transmission reprogramming or a different transmission altogether?
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Made some more metal shavings this weekend. Modified split lock collars for hub lock nut. Bagged a bunch of bolts.
coachgeo
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locking hub on rear might be good for ice driving esp. if you have rear locker?... turn rear hubs. put it in 4wd Mode giving you only front wheel drive. Know on my Jeep I wish like hell I could get rear locking hubs for icy roads. My Torqueee diesel in the Jeep wants to slide my rear all over the place.. front wheel drive only achieved by turning rear hubs to unlock , would be so much better in that scenario on icy highway. Maybe on LMTV too?
Would a rear hub set on rear axle of a 6x6 be an advantage. along with having created a manual Switch switch of your inneraxle locker and turn your rear most axle into a Tag axle fur use when not heavy laden... may give you better fuel mileage in 6x6? Would this also be a way to take a rear auto locker out of commision when you don't want/need it.
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Icy roads - put on chains..... I can't see an advantage over just putting it in MODE and it being 50/50. Chain up the front and lock in the center..... with newer supple Goodyear MV/T's I don't see you having a problem.
Don't own a 6x6 but I can pretty much guarantee there's essentially zero fuel economy benefit to disengaging one of the two tandems.
I really just don't see a use case for this option. At best it's a fringe use case that's covered by the better option of being prepared for the conditions.
Ronmar
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Yea if it was a traditional rear wheel drivetrain/4WD transfer case system, traditional matching locking hubs in the front might be applicable.
but it is not, so they are not…
but it is not, so they are not…
Have you done any testing at low off road conditions? I am in Colorado and will be using our truck as a expedition/rv vehicle. We explore at 10-12k elevation mountain roads/trails. I hate to lose to much of the low end and especially at elevation, but would also like the hwy side of it. I understand it doesn't tale very long to switch back and forth, but was just wondering.
ramdough
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What would be awesome is if you could keep the hub gears but lock them when you want so you get off-road range and street range.
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The “6x6” is only so in MODE, the power divider is only pass-through otherwise
Ronmar
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Yea that would be a pretty complex mechanism…
coachgeo
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no the 6x6 is full time on these trucks. On some trucks; but not the FMTV's, the rear axle only works when activated. FMTV and most newer 6x6 not like that. There is a 3rd differential in the power divider. It sits sideways between the axle pair to modulate power back and forth between middle or rear most axle. It sends power to axle with most spin in same way a typical oriented differential modulates power between left or right wheel. In mode it automatically (or if you put the air locker on separate switch) locks the mid and rear axle together same way a locker would lock left/right wheel together.
least that is my understanding after many discussions on the type of Power Divider box we have on the Meritor axle.
Ronmar
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The hub gears are a form of planetary gearset. A planetary has 3 parts, driven, reference and drive. To get a ratio out of a planetary you drive 1 part, brake or hold one part and the 3rd part becomes your output.
We hold the inner gear by attaching it to the spindle, we spin the outer gear with the axle and we get the 2:1 off the spider carrier which is attached to the hub/wheel.
In order to make this selectable we would need a mechanism that performed 2 functions. It must release the inner gear to freewheel and also lock the outer gear to the hub and or spider/carrier, all in the space that is already occupied by gears...
I dont think the eco hubs low speed operation will be effected enough(if at all) to make a two speed selectable hub even remotely feasable or practical.
If this were a manual transmission, I would be very concerened about cutting the axle ratio in half, because I have only a limited ammount of startup/idle torque, and clutch engaged, I can only go so slow without having to slip the clutch(very bad). See the idle speed charts I posted earlier in this discussion. Those assume a coupled engine to trans, 1st gear went from 4 to 8 MPH, but the info for 1st and 2nd doesnt strictly apply to our Allisons...
We are not manuals. We have a wonderfull torque converter in 1st and 2nd gear, that not only allows infinite slip/input ratio, but also allows us to deliver full engine output torque into a transmission of a non moving truck. The TC matches the engine output to the load. Thats why Alisons can do things that would literally destroy other manual drivetrains.
I dont think you will be able to put one of these trucks in a typical situation where it wont move before it runs out of traction, same as it now does with 2:1 hubs...
We hold the inner gear by attaching it to the spindle, we spin the outer gear with the axle and we get the 2:1 off the spider carrier which is attached to the hub/wheel.
In order to make this selectable we would need a mechanism that performed 2 functions. It must release the inner gear to freewheel and also lock the outer gear to the hub and or spider/carrier, all in the space that is already occupied by gears...
I dont think the eco hubs low speed operation will be effected enough(if at all) to make a two speed selectable hub even remotely feasable or practical.
If this were a manual transmission, I would be very concerened about cutting the axle ratio in half, because I have only a limited ammount of startup/idle torque, and clutch engaged, I can only go so slow without having to slip the clutch(very bad). See the idle speed charts I posted earlier in this discussion. Those assume a coupled engine to trans, 1st gear went from 4 to 8 MPH, but the info for 1st and 2nd doesnt strictly apply to our Allisons...
We are not manuals. We have a wonderfull torque converter in 1st and 2nd gear, that not only allows infinite slip/input ratio, but also allows us to deliver full engine output torque into a transmission of a non moving truck. The TC matches the engine output to the load. Thats why Alisons can do things that would literally destroy other manual drivetrains.
I dont think you will be able to put one of these trucks in a typical situation where it wont move before it runs out of traction, same as it now does with 2:1 hubs...
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I completely agree, with the possible exception of one of the original design criterion for the platform - the 18" vertical wall climb. I'm not saying it absolutely wont do it, I'm just not SURE it would do it without the reduction.
That said - for the typical civilian use case such as an overland RV application - I don't see myself dragging my living space over such an obstacle. There's virtually always a better choice - go around, make an earthen ramp, cut a section out of the log, tow it or winch it out of your way, etc, etc. In a combat environment there are use cases for going over (possibly to the detriment of the equipment) debris, wreckage, curbs, short walls, etc where it would be non-feasible to have a bunch of grunts with shovels jump out and make a hole for you.
These trucks will never make good rock-crawlers. Get a tow-bar and pull your stump jumper behind it
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I’m in NE Indiana, and it’s been nasty cold wet etc. My tests to date have been dirt roads, paved streets pulling loads on trailer.
I’m sure when it gets a little nicer I might go North to Grayling Mi. to test it a little.
Your turbo should normalise for elevation changes, so you shouldn’t be low on horsepower?? I’m sure we will have more feedback and testing soon!
I appreciate the insight. A couple of my thoughts were by losing the 2:1 how much would that effect the power or ability at 10-12k in elevation? I would be losing about 15-20% of the engine just with the elevation and then losing the 2:1 as well.I completely agree, with the possible exception of one of the original design criterion for the platform - the 18" vertical wall climb. I'm not saying it absolutely wont do it, I'm just not SURE it would do it without the reduction.
That said - for the typical civilian use case such as an overland RV application - I don't see myself dragging my living space over such an obstacle. There's virtually always a better choice - go around, make an earthen ramp, cut a section out of the log, tow it or winch it out of your way, etc, etc. In a combat environment there are use cases for going over (possibly to the detriment of the equipment) debris, wreckage, curbs, short walls, etc where it would be non-feasible to have a bunch of grunts with shovels jump out and make a hole for you.
These trucks will never make good rock-crawlers. Get a tow-bar and pull your stump jumper behind it
I'm guessing that how I am wanting to use the vehicle will be unique compared to most. We drive 2-6hrs on hwy, then travel up forest service roads that will increase in elevation up to 12,000ft. The F.S. roads start as dirt then will increase in difficulty to 12-24" rocks. Unfortunately most of the time there are no bypass to the obstacles. I currently do this in a Jeep Gladiator towing an expedition trailer. Makes for some incredible sunsets/sunrises.
I may be asking too much of my 1078, travel across the country and climb mountains, but I am willing to push the boundaries and try it. I love the idea and the simplicity of swapping the 2:1 in and out, so that may be what I need to do or be ok with a slower pace in order to get to the locations i want.
I was just curious if Xengineguy or anyone else had thoughts pertaining to this. Always love the feedback and knowledge for everyone here and looking forward to seeing how all this plays out. As always, Thanks.