ECO Hubs Who needs 3:07 gears?

[Lostchain]

I was speed limited to about 60mph due to tyre vibration.

I have seen multiple people including myself report this specific issue after the ECO hubs install. I have been debating tearing all my CTIS hoses and wheel valves off to see if that makes a difference. I have balance beads in my wheels that I installed before the ECO hubs install, but I basically never drove the truck this fast before.... Seems like everyone else has been chalking it up to bad tires but I'm not so sure...

 

[GeneralDisorder]

After a bunch of experimentation I landed on about 80-90 psi and 64 ounces of antifreeze to solve my vibration around 65 mph (only showed up after I installed the CTIS valves). The antifreeze on it's own doesn't like the normal lower pressure that the CTIS runs - probably the rolling flat spot preventing it from flowing out evenly - so I started with the M1082 pressure of 77 psi and that really helped. I'm currently running 80 psi and the CTIS is able to maintain that and my vibration is pretty much gone.

 

[Ronmar]

Yea it could be an out of round issue as much as an out of balance issue.

 

[GCecchetto]

Well, we know the issue isn’t the Eco Hubs

 

[coachgeo]

Got a link to the recommended place to purchase them?

they are standard driveshafts for big rigs. Just take it to a driveline shop and have it rebuilt and balanced. Since this is on a high pinion axle it is not death sentence like on four wheeled cousins. Tires first.

Message a moderator about moving the post here about your truck to its own thread. A moderator (or might take admin..... matters how roles are dividy up here) can start a new thread for you that all Mod/Admin mark gets moved to the new thread.

 

[GCecchetto]

they are standard driveshafts for big rigs. Just take it to a driveline shop and have it rebuilt and balanced. Since this is on a high pinion axle it is not death sentence like on four wheeled cousins. Tires first.

Message a moderator about moving the post here about your truck to its own thread. A moderator (or might take admin..... matters how roles are dividy up here) can start a new thread for you that all Mod/Admin mark gets moved to the new thread.

Yes, I plan on having it rebuilt/balanced, and will have the front balanced as well. Already planning to start a new thread for the truck build to avoid further posts here.

 

[GCecchetto]

For you folks who know these trucks inside out, how does the gearing after the Eco Hub install compare to installing 3.07 gears? If memory serves me right, I think I’ve heard two different stock ratios, one in the high 6’s and one in the low 7’s. So, in either case, the gearing after the Eco Hub installation would still be lower than going to the 3.07 highway gears……..I think…….right? And given the reduction of loss through the planetary it should be a win win. Of course I may be completely wrong.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

For you folks who know these trucks inside out, how does the gearing after the Eco Hub install compare to installing 3.07 gears? If memory serves me right, I think I’ve heard two different stock ratios, one in the high 6’s and one in the low 7’s. So, in either case, the gearing after the Eco Hub installation would still be lower than going to the 3.07 highway gears……..I think…….right? And given the reduction of loss through the planetary it should be a win win. Of course I may be completely wrong.

7.8:1 with stock 3.90's
6.14:1 with 3.07's
3:90:1 with ECO hubs and stock gears
3.07:1 with ECO hubs and 3.07:1 gears.

If you don't already have 3.07's then stay with 3.90's if you plan on doing ECO hubs. The 3.07's are a little too high. It will work if you already have them but based on the results we are seeing it looks like it's falling down the backside of the economy curve and while you get all the benefits of lower driveline speeds and engine RPM, the fuel economy benefits are reduced.

 

[GCecchetto]

7.8:1 with stock 3.90's
6.14:1 with 3.07's
3:90:1 with ECO hubs and stock gears
3.07:1 with ECO hubs and 3.07:1 gears.

If you don't already have 3.07's then stay with 3.90's if you plan on doing ECO hubs. The 3.07's are a little too high. It will work if you already have them but based on the results we are seeing it looks like it's falling down the backside of the economy curve and while you get all the benefits of lower driveline speeds and engine RPM, the fuel economy benefits are reduced.

truck is stock gearing, so I’m doing eco hubs and calling it a day. Sounds like the perfect compromise for highway cruising but still low gearing for off-road.

 

[Ronmar]

Yea the math says the ideal would be around 4.70, but sadly I think 3.90 is the top end of our differentials range…

 

[Third From Texas]

The big draw of ECO hubs (at least for me) is that it's something that can be done in the driveway in about the same time it would take just to service the hubs. And it's just as easy to revert back to stock. Also factor in the price at around $2500 shipped

Where 3:07's will require pulling the axels, dropping the drive shafts, cracking open the pumpkins, etc, etc. Having someone do the work is pricy (especially if they really know these trucks) and the work is mostly all geographically isolated. The cost of the 307's is historically anywhere from $3000-$5000 for just a pair of pumpkins (yeah, the originally cost about $80 ea at auction but "supply and demand"...or blatant wallet rape depending on your perspective). The price may be falling as people shy away from them in favor of the, IMO better solution of ECO hubs. I'd not saying that 3:07's are still not a good deal at $80 each, I'd just rather the flippers who have controlled the pricing up until now keep them. The 3:07's are FAR more complicated to revert back to OEM should someone wish to do so for whatever reason. And shipping a couple pumpkins across the country is not cheap.

Personally, I'd always MUCH rather support someone who is actually making a product.. opposed to just flipping old surplus (especially when it's for big profit justified by "supply and demand").

ECO hubs are a win/win in my book. There's no question as to which is the better/smarter purchase/install, IMO.

ymmv

 

[Ronmar]

The big draw of ECO hubs (at least for me) is that it's something that can be done in the driveway in about the same time it would take just to service the hubs. And it's just as easy to revert back to stock. Also factor in the price at around $2500 shipped

Where 3:07's will require pulling the axels, dropping the drive shafts, cracking open the pumpkins, etc, etc. Having someone do the work is pricy (especially if they really know these trucks) and the work is mostly all geographically isolated. The cost of the 307's is historically anywhere from $3000-$5000 for just a pair of pumpkins (yeah, the originally cost about $80 ea at auction but "supply and demand"...or blatant wallet rape depending on your perspective). The price may be falling as people shy away from them in favor of the, IMO better solution of ECO hubs. I'd not saying that 3:07's are still not a good deal at $80 each, I'd just rather the flippers who have controlled the pricing up until now keep them. The 3:07's are FAR more complicated to revert back to OEM should someone wish to do so for whatever reason. And shipping a couple pumpkins across the country is not cheap.

Personally, I'd always MUCH rather support someone who is actually making a product.. opposed to just flipping old surplus (especially when it's for big profit justified by "supply and demand").

ECO hubs are a win/win in my book. There's no question as to which is the better/smarter purchase/install, IMO.

ymmv

Exactly!

 

[CallMeColt]

In regard to 60+mph vibration... these wheels suck. I'm no ultra expert, but these wheels are NOT perfect round or even. I bet if you do like I did & put some sort or camera under your truck looking at your axle when driving, it will show you just that. Or, how much a dump troop didn't make sure the wheel was centered on the lugs before going full uggaa duggaa on the first lug nut and messing up the tappers on the wheel. I have one that is bad enough to be seen with the naked eye. At the 58mph, it's not bad. But, I have a whole NOS that will go on when ECO hubs do. That 450lbs wheel wobbling is violent.

 

[Third From Texas]

In regard to 60+mph vibration... these wheels suck. I'm no ultra expert, but these wheels are NOT perfect round or even. I bet if you do like I did & put some sort or camera under your truck looking at your axle when driving, it will show you just that. Or, how much a dump troop didn't make sure the wheel was centered on the lugs before going full uggaa duggaa on the first lug nut and messing up the tappers on the wheel. I have one that is bad enough to be seen with the naked eye. At the 58mph, it's not bad. But, I have a whole NOS that will go on when ECO hubs do. That 450lbs wheel wobbling is violent.

Yeah, with 5 lbs of CTIS hoses and valves asymmetrically on one side , 10 lbs metal CTIS covers with non-symmetrical cuts......I'm realistically not expecting to ever have "balance"...

That said, I have zero vibration on my A1R truck at 60mph. <knocks on wood>
I don't plan on running any faster than that even after adding ECO hubs.
*my first A0 truck would rattle fillings out at about 45mph , then smooth again until around 55mph where it got ugly again

But I think that there are a ton of variables that cause vibrations in the trucks I swapped all four of the tires n my old A0 and nothing changed.

 

[chucky]

Yeah, with 5 lbs of CTIS hoses and valves asymmetrically on one side , 10 lbs metal CTIS covers with non-symmetrical cuts......I'm realistically not expecting to ever have "balance"...

That said, I have zero vibration on my A1R truck at 60mph. <knocks on wood>
I don't plan on running any faster than that even after adding ECO hubs.
*my first A0 truck would rattle fillings out at about 45mph , then smooth again until around 55mph where it got ugly again

But I think that there are a ton of variables that cause vibrations in the trucks I swapped all four of the tires n my old A0 and nothing changed.

I thought you went the anti freeze balance way ?????

 

[GeneralDisorder]

CTIS hoses and valve are only about 11.5 ounces.

 

[Ronmar]

CTIS hoses and valve are only about 11.5 ounces.

And the bead-lock hardware at a longer moment arm should offset some of that ctis weight, IF they are installed correctly…

 

[GeneralDisorder]

And the bead-lock hardware at a longer moment arm should offset some of that ctis weight, IF they are installed correctly…

The bead lock hardware weighs almost nothing. It's 4 bolts, and 4 nuts (like 5/16" thread - really small), and two small bars..... And there's a small gap in the bead lock ring itself so that further offsets the weight of the hardware. The TM makes no mention of a specific orientation for the bead lock when assembling the tire to the rim.

Further - if that were a concern there is no provision with the various rubber or alloy run flat inserts for similar weight offset.

Much of this 60+ MPH speed related balance issue is irrelevant to the design of the tires which carry a maximum speed rating of 65 MPH. So I'm sure Goodyear's first suggestion would be why don't you slow down?

 

[Third From Texas]

I thought you went the anti freeze balance way ?????

Not to offend those who do/did...

Not in a MILLION years.

As ballast for a farm tractor to help keep the vehicle from tipping over, sure.

Beyond that, nope.

My reasons are based on fluid dynamics.

But if people "think" it helps, that's all that matters.



*and if you do, dilute that shit good (it can be caustic)

 

[Third From Texas]

CTIS hoses and valve are only about 11.5 ounces.

I'll try to better denote my sarcasm and exaggeration in the future.

Now I'll go remove and weight the 10 lb steel CTIS covers <-----sarcasm and exaggeration

;p