jpelc
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Thanks Mike, Delta Lock is what I meant for spacer. I'll be ordering a set around March.
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ECO Hubs Who needs 3:07 gears?
- Thread starter Xengineguy
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The spring would need to push against something, in this case it would be the outer hub or bolt adapter. The Delta lock is stationary
and the other two pieces are turning. Not the best combination.
The split collars work and work well. The amount of push or turning force that the axle nut delivers to the split collar is minimal.
If you had a situation where the split collar some how slid off the splines and the axle nut loosened. The brake drum and spindle
would tip and the drum would contact the brake shoe. I would think anyone would feel that and the wobble of a 300 lb tire
long before it came off the truck?
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Let me know when you’re ready. Will fix you up!
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- Texas Hill Country
Perhaps not in trucks this large? Though in the Land Rover Series III trucks I have refurbished we used the slotted washers and bent over the washer edges to hold the axle nuts. The force to keep a properly installed axle nut is minimal. I am having a hard time believing a properly installed and torqued axle nut backed off with a properly installed split ring in the ECO Hubs.
Delta locks sound like a good idea, once seen I may order ones since we off road quite a bit, though for over the road I likely would not—
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Not sure about torque on the land rover series, but some of my toyotas had several hundred lbs of torque on the wheel bearing nut and the nut had a deformable section. Pretty different setup to these trucks. I like the idea of locking to the splines curious to see that solution!
I'll be keeping an eye on my spacers, there is a chance the aluminum spacer could wear. I doubt it considering the lack of load but it is potentially steel on aluminum if the gear oil doesn't provide film effect.
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CONJIN
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Why not take the eco hub idea and make it selectable, like the old school 4wheel drive selector on the hub? I envision a selector on the outside of the hub that pushes pins into the outer gear of the original planatery, effectively locking the gear to the hub (no 2 to 1) or unlocking and allowing the gear to spin again (2 to 1). That would be best of both worlds! 
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Enjoy your build and godspeed—
Ronmar
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That would be a fairly complex mechanism creating 2 simultaneous operations(couple A, while uncoupling B), all inside a hub casing that is already full of gears. You of course are more than welcome to build a better mousetrap, but i am not seeing anyone clamoring to rip out the Ecos and put the 2:1s back in...
CONJIN
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There is only 1 coupling or uncoupling operation, not simultaneous. The single gear is either coupled or uncoupled.
Some of us use our trucks more offroad than on and I personally like to keep all the torque for more serious offloading. But, if I could also get more driveability on the road, that would be a plus.
It's just an idea, and I'm throwing it out there
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I think what he's getting at, this is actually a very difficult problem. The amount of torque needed to react to the loads, along with sealing oil, making a mechanism that locks all pins or whatever device in unison, also making sure they can't lock while driving, then you have to deal with the surfaces of materials in terms of hardness, strength, surface roughness. It's actually a very difficult problem to make reliable and very expensive. Is it doable? Absolutely is it simple? Absolutely not.
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You don't understand how the planetary system works. You can't just couple the outer gear to the hub cover - you must also decouple the inner gear from the splined axle tube. If you don't you will IMMEDIATELY destroy parts inside the hub. Remember that the axle is spinning at twice the speed of the wheel. The hub is a 2:1 geared planetary transmission - you must decouple from the sun gear (splined axle tube/inner gear) to allow the hub to spin at the axle speed rather than half the axle speed. Lookup an animation of a planetary gearing system so you understand what's going on inside before suggesting things that can't possibly work.
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CONJIN
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Wow harsh! Like I said, just throwing an idea out there. Last time I checked, this was a forum for questions, comments and ideas. Last time I'll make that mistake. Let me put my dunce cap on and retreat to my corner.
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You asked a question - when it was explained this would be very difficult by two members you made assertions of it's simplicity and further assumptions. By doubling down on the comment it was clear I needed to explain in further detail what disastrous consequences would befall the person that tries this approach.
CONJIN
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Just so you know. The outer gear is splined to the axle and if you pin it to the hub, the hub and wheel will spin at the same speed as the axle shaft, no spinning planatery gears at that point. Un-pinning allows it to spin the planetary gears, giving you the reduction. You don't lock it or unlock it while your driving though!
Ok, now back to my corner
CONJIN
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No where did I say it would be simple, please show me
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Yet again you show in painful clarity that you fail to understand what's happening in the hubs.
Someone please help me out with explaining this. I've lost the will.....
CONJIN
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No need, signing off nowYet again you show in painful clarity that you fail to understand what's happening in the hubs.
Someone please help me out with explaining this. I've lost the will.....
Ronmar
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Yes the axle is splined to the outer gear, the outer gear rolls the spider gears that roll on the inner gear that is fixed to the hollow spindle.
take a pencil and lay it on the table. Place your fingertips on the pencil and roll it across the table with your fingers and palm of your hand. Note how the tips of your fingers move twice as far across the table as the pencil does. Your hand is the outer gear, the pencil are the planetaries, who's spindle is attched to the wheel hub and the table is the fixed inner gear attached to the hollow spindle. In order to get the planetary(pencil) to move at the same speed as the axle(hand/outer gear), you must first couple them to your hand, and un-couple them from the table…
again, not easy, to do so in the space allowed and in a way that will withstand the forces involved. Also pointless IMO. Traction will be your problem with or without 2:1 hub reduction, not force applied to the wheels…
take a pencil and lay it on the table. Place your fingertips on the pencil and roll it across the table with your fingers and palm of your hand. Note how the tips of your fingers move twice as far across the table as the pencil does. Your hand is the outer gear, the pencil are the planetaries, who's spindle is attched to the wheel hub and the table is the fixed inner gear attached to the hollow spindle. In order to get the planetary(pencil) to move at the same speed as the axle(hand/outer gear), you must first couple them to your hand, and un-couple them from the table…
again, not easy, to do so in the space allowed and in a way that will withstand the forces involved. Also pointless IMO. Traction will be your problem with or without 2:1 hub reduction, not force applied to the wheels…
No need... Just take a closer look at the reduction units in each hub. There are 3 main components for the reduction gearset:
- The outer bevel gear attached to the spinning axle
- The "spider" gears on the cross
- The inner bevel gear rigidly attached to the axle housing.
In the OE configuration, the spider is driving the hub. In the ECO configuration, the axle is driving the hub. Both can't happen at the same time. If it does, it will be expensive.
The crux would be to find a way to make that inner bevel gear selectively fixed or floating. If you got it to float, it would be productive to lock the spider to the hub for the reduction elimination. Finding a cost effective manner which your average Joe could install under the tree (like the ECO hubs- no machining, completely reversible, etc...) would likely be a tall order, but I'd be open to seeing it worked out!
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Lol I knew that was coming. 