eHMMVW

[ogsched]

Has anyone looked at the “eCrate motor package” that General Motors is planning to release commercially next year? About a month ago there was news of using this kit to restore a 1977 K5 Blazer, in pretty much stock configuration. Looked very slick, made me wonder about the prospects for a “stock” M998 EV conversion for one of my two rigs...

The kit contains a Chevy Bolt EV motor that provides the same 200 horsepower and 266 pound-feet of torque as the little hatchback. Providing power is the Bolt's 60-kWh, 400-volt battery pack, and the same motor controllers, power inverters and battery cooling and management systems are all used. Word is the kit will be available for sale in the second half of next year. Couple of good photos in this blog post:

Chevy Performance builds K5 Blazer EV to demonstrate eCrate motor pack

Chevrolet Performance converted a K5 Blazer to electric power using a near-production eCrate Connect and Cruise electric motor package.

www.autoblog.com

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[jkcondrey]

Would be next to useless for my purposes, not a lot of chargers in the woods.

 

[Ajax MD]

Well before Tesla ever existed, I converted a '77 VW Beetle to battery electric drive.
I drove it everywhere for 2 years, safely and reliably. I loved it.

In my opinion, the HMMWV will suffer major losses and inefficiencies due to the gearing in the hubs and the transmission to say nothing of its brick-like shape.
You can electrify a HMMWV. You can even probably get a useful range out of it but all of this comes at a price that would probably be astronomical.

I'll probably replace my Subaru daily driver with a Tesla in the next 4-6 years but I won't entertain the idea of converting a surplus mil HMMWV.

As they say, those of us who are saying it can't be done shouldn't get in the way of those who are doing it, so don't let me stop you. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[98G]

Would be next to useless for my purposes, not a lot of chargers in the woods.

How many diesel pumps are in your woods?

 

[Coug]

It really depends on what you use your HMMWV for. It wouldn't work for me because I tend to do heavy towing a lot mixed with long drives. Unless I wanted to take my generator with me everywhere to keep it charged up I'd be stranded a lot.

Now if someone was building something like a rock crawler or just liked to drive it around in town, especially in a warmer climate, I can see it being a nice little upgrade. Lots of instant torque. As long as you are planning around charging stations you could even manage some trips with it, or maybe have to install a second battery pack for longer excursions.

 

[Coug]

How many diesel pumps are in your woods?

It's a lot easier to carry fuel cans than it is to find an outlet.

Then again, you can always just tow a 15k or larger single phase generator (do they sell a 3 phase charger?) and then be back into the same boat.

The other hand once you dump fuel in you can go driving again immediately, with electric you have to wait for it to charge.

 

[ogsched]

All - thanks for the feedback. I’m sure for many this will not make sense. However, for some it may very well be a great way to increase reliability and add torque (if the system is priced right and the install isn’t too disruptive to the OEM parts).

What I’m really interested in hearing about is if anyone has knowledge on the last point - is it possible to efficiently install a system like this in a stock HMMWV without too much modification, and how user friendly (ie capabilities/reliability) is the modified vehicle??

Some questions come to mind:
- Is the 1977 K5 Blazer engine mount similar enough to the later K5 series that spawned the 6.2L engine that is stock in the early M998?
- Where could the battery cells be located in a M998?
- The transmission is included with the EV kit, how would this play in lieu of the stock 3 speed transmission?
- 200hp EV motor, would this leave the modified M998 feeling peppier or more sluggish than the stock 6.2L diesel?

By the way, an added bonus for the conversion: I may be able to drive around without earplugs in!


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[Coug]

An electric motor develops peak torque at stall.
A chemical fuel powered engine doesn't develop torque until it's spinning at a high enough speed to efficiently intake air/fuel and compress it, then explode it.

Basically the difference is for the electric motor you'll have your power highest when stopped or just starting out. There will be a definite difference in how "peppy" it feels comparatively. The electric motor will get you up to speed a lot faster than the diesel will with all else being equal.

I'd imagine that the motor mounting system won't require all that much to install it in the HMMWV, motor mounts might move around some on the blocks, but they are all the same basic idea for the most part in this size engine.

I don't know the size or shape of the fuel cells, so can't tell you where it would have to be installed, but if nothing else you'll lose some of your bed space. If you are lucky you might be able to break up the battery pack and distribute it in place of the fuel tank and maybe under the rear seats, but I doubt it.
Heck, you might be able to make a false wall for the back of the cab and store it in there depending on your setup and the battery pack dimensions.

No idea how the EV transmission would work in place of the 3 speed. I'd imagine it would be a lot smoother (not that the 6.2 had enough power to really notice when you shifted, other than to slow down accelerating)

 

[Coug]

The biggest downside is you're looking at the cost of something like a duramax conversion to do this conversion as well. Is it really worth putting a $40-50k or more conversion in a $10k truck, that would maybe be worth $20-30k when everything is complete?
(No idea if this is how the pricing would work out, but it seems realistic to me)

 

[Ajax MD]

On the topic of more torque, I'd plan on upgrading to 12k axles to handle it.

 

[98G]

It's a lot easier to carry fuel cans than it is to find an outlet.

Then again, you can always just tow a 15k or larger single phase generator (do they sell a 3 phase charger?) and then be back into the same boat.

The other hand once you dump fuel in you can go driving again immediately, with electric you have to wait for it to charge.

Agreed on all counts.

That being said, a larger solar charger would allow to recharge with neither a plug nor a jug...

And if you're going to drag around a diesel generator to charge your electric vehicle, why not skip the intermediate steps and just leave the diesel engine in the truck?

I'm thinking the motor mounts aren't a major sticking point. I'm thinking the transmission substitute is also probably not an insurmountable issue.

I'm thinking this would be a niche for those people extremely remote who have poor access to fuel resupply but do have large solar collectors.

But I'm not seeing it. The cost is sure to be astronomical and the benefit(if any), miniscule at best.

 

[ogsched]

Coug/98G - I’m thinking your cost estimates for the kit are much higher than I am anticipating. A new fully loaded Chevy Volt is $38k, so I was guessing one of the EV kits would be under $10k and perhaps under $7k. If kits are much more, it’s hard to see how GM will sell very many. Using these estimates my thought is a conversion could be done for under $12k. Not sure what an engine swap for an M998 costs these days (or an engine swap for any vehicle for that matter) but the EV conversion would have to be competitive or this initiative will not be profitable for GM.

Needless to say, the appeal of an eHMMWV varies inversely with cost to convert, so a high ticket price for the kit greatly diminishes the potential!


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[Coug]

The high prices I quoted are mostly because of all the little things that you have to do along with it.
A Duramax or Cummins engine, used, to go into an HMMWV can be purchased for $5-10k, depending on miles/condition.
The rest of the cost is labor to do the conversion (which can be substantial), and all the little bits.
You'd need to convert the steering over to electric somehow, along with the brake booster.
All the gauges would need to be replaced, probably with some sort of custom computer display.

I think your guess that the "kit" would be under $10k is a bit low.
Possibly the electric powerplant/transmission assembly might come in around $10k.
Then you'd likely be looking at another $10k for the battery pack.

Getting someone to do the labor of the install itself, plus wiring the motor and battery pack, convert your throttle over to an electronic one (or possibly just fabricating something to use the existing cable to work with the throttle control for the motor), and literally dozens of other little things, every single one of which will end up being a custom manufactured item for this specific purpose.

The reason why the Volt only costs $38k is because GM makes thousands of them. The economy of a production line greatly reduces the amount of labor, as it's the same labor over and over. Installing it into something not designed for it will take a LOT of time and labor, even if the motor itself bolts right onto the existing frame points.

If you were to do it all yourself, then you'd likely save at least $10k in labor charges doing a job like this, as it's a lot more involved to change from one style powertrain to another.

Even going from the 6.2 to a 6.5 turbo, one designed to go into one of these, can run a person $8-10k in parts and labor, and that's just doing a basic install with the minimum of parts, it's not upgrading all the suspension and halfshafts and other stuff up to 12k gear.

 

[TOBASH]

How many diesel pumps are in your woods?

Easy to buy a few 5 gallon containers to hold spare Diesel. Not as easy to buy a container that is easily filled and stores a few trillion electrons.

 

[Milcommoguy]

Not sure why one would want to use any of the drive train. Four smaller motors with simple gear reduction to each portal hubs. Fancy computer to manage traction / spin control / sync / lock-up. Selective wheel drive 1, 2 , 3 or 4... front or rear??. Include all the regen / braking stuff. Would be a fun project. Need to dream or start a go-fund me site, LOL

But then not sure of much, CAMO

 

[98G]

Not sure why one would want to use any of the drive train. Four smaller motors with simple gear reduction to each portal hubs. Fancy computer to manage traction / spin control / sync / lock-up. Selective wheel drive 1, 2 , 3 or 4... front or rear??. Include all the regen / braking stuff. Would be a fun project. Need to dream or start a go-fund me site, LOL

But then not sure of much, CAMO

It's been done (or something similar) with a 6 figure pricetag.

 

[jkcondrey]

How many diesel pumps are in your woods?

Actually, alot more. Given the amount of logging in the area, not to mention us rednecks with transfer pumps in the bed.

 

[98G]

The new crate motor by EV West and Revolt fits just like a small-block Chevy - Hagerty Media

With a longitudinal layout and small-block Chevy mounts, this electric crate motor is bolt-in option for 500 hp and 800 lb-ft of torque.

www.hagerty.com

The cost is staggering...

 

[Wire Fox]

The new crate motor by EV West and Revolt fits just like a small-block Chevy - Hagerty Media

With a longitudinal layout and small-block Chevy mounts, this electric crate motor is bolt-in option for 500 hp and 800 lb-ft of torque.

www.hagerty.com

The cost is staggering...

That's using a customized Tesla driveline. No word yet (as far as I know) on the price point of the Chevy Bolt kit mentioned in the original post.

 

[TOBASH]

I’m sorry but I don’t get anything about this thread.

Too expensive. Not realistic. Waste of time. Still needs 30k battery pack after installing a 30k motor.

To each their own I guess.