Electric Winch Install

[tobyS]

TehTDK something is wrong with your calculation model. I have a hydraulic crane on a 4x4 f66 that has 51' of reach and about 15k# pull and know for a fact that pulling at the 45 degree angle is not the same as pulling up the angle. Been there done that...and it requires less pull load raised up than straight, not more. That's why the wreckers have a short but strong boom...to get some elevation. Go for the highest point on the pull vehicle and the lowest point on the pulled.

Has anyone seen a hydraulic pump mounted on the front of the engine? I mean with a spline shaft off the damper, not a belt/clutch? I need mucho hydro power for a sawmill.

 

[TehTDK]

TehTDK something is wrong with your calculation model. I have a hydraulic crane on a 4x4 f66 that has 51' of reach and about 15k# pull and know for a fact that pulling at the 45 degree angle is not the same as pulling up the angle. Been there done that...and it requires less pull load raised up than straight, not more. That's why the wreckers have a short but strong boom...to get some elevation. Go for the highest point on the pull vehicle and the lowest point on the pulled.

I'm not sure what you are getting at?. If I were I might be able to explain myself out of it, or explain better . And I was talking about pulling UP a gradient, not at an angle. Pulling at an angle to the vehicle you are trying to recover "shouldn't" add more work required, but it some cases it do (multiple lines/multiple anchor points etc).

 

[Moto2four]

I am strongly considering an electric winch install on my 923 for emergency use only. Obviously a juice winch would be better, but the install of one on a w/ow truck is a big undertaking. With enough strap, shackles, a couple snatch blocks, and a little patience, you would be able to get the vehicle out, given it's not buried past the pumpkins in clay.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Its not an apple to apple comparison - But I have the Warn 6,000 on the front of the M109 with remote control operation.

I put the tow rings on the bottom of the frame fronts - made a 1/2 steel plate for the top of the bumper - yes it extends out just a litle ways but it works awesome. I put the control box to the left front just lower than the headlight - wired the 24v in.

SNAP! I have a warn on the front of my M45. with the remote also. It has the proper bumper extensions etc. so looks well and pulls only what it is supposed to.

 

[162tcat]

I have the 18K warn on my m923 and love it! I've used it to pull vehicles out of ditches and my truck when I got stuck in a snow filled ditch. It works great and is far easier to use than the hydraulic unit. If your doing lots of recovery, the hydraulic winch is probably the way to go. If your like most guys and want it for just in case, go electric.

 

[tennmogger]

Still curious what wheeled vehicle will do a 45° grade. Our trucks are rated for a 60% grade and most if not all will not climb that, due to traction limiting. No issues with the numbers, or calculations or advice to be careful and use enough equipment. That said, a 20k electric winch might be ok for light recovery on a 2-1/2.

Since you ask, Unimogs are rated to 100% grade, 45 degree. Traction is the limiting factor. It's easy to find a place to climb up and down OVER 100% in the Utah slickrock. We do it all the time.

Approach and departure angle have little to do with what grade a vehicle will 'operate' on. Gearing and lubrication (especially engine) become critical if operating at 100%. The Unimog test track in Germany has a 100% slope and they routinely drive down, stop on the slope, and reverse back up it.

Many of the Unimogs are rated close to 100% side slope, empty, too. This can be observed in test track videos. A photo of a Unimog chassis minus the lightweight cab shows why.

Bob

 

[pmramsey]

Here is your winch installed on my M35A3. I have one on my M932 tractor also. The installation difference is slight. The A3 hood hinges under the windscreen and the M931 hinges at the front of the engine. The 931 had a latching mechanism on the bumper. I moved the latching hook and shorten the length of the latch and all works well. One must flip the front bumper on both the A3 and the M939 series trucks so the straight side of the bumper is down making a gap for the winch to work through on the top of the bumper. See photos below. Gimpy is correct; a PTO winch will run all day and this Warn is limited to 10-minutes at a pop. However, it takes a minimum of two to work the PTO winch and three is the safest. The Warn can be a single operator winch. It is a hog as it is fused at 300 amps. One man operation requires setting the brakes, chocking the wheels, and setting the throttle at 1500 rpm.

 

[steve6x6x6]

I do not have a 5 ton but was looking at installing a warn 18,000 lb., 24 volt on my M35A3. Found some pic's to help with my install - some day.

 

[Nasty610]

TehTDK something is wrong with your calculation model. I have a hydraulic crane on a 4x4 f66 that has 51' of reach and about 15k# pull and know for a fact that pulling at the 45 degree angle is not the same as pulling up the angle. Been there done that...and it requires less pull load raised up than straight, not more. That's why the wreckers have a short but strong boom...to get some elevation. Go for the highest point on the pull vehicle and the lowest point on the pulled.

Has anyone seen a hydraulic pump mounted on the front of the engine? I mean with a spline shaft off the damper, not a belt/clutch? I need mucho hydro power for a sawmill.

What TehTDK was stating with his calculations involved a recovery vehicles with a bumper mount winch pulling a vehicle up a slope. The reason wreckers are built and used the way you describe is to simultaneously pull & lift the vehicle being recovered. Since the vehicle is being lifted out of the hole it's in recovery is easier. Pulling the same vehicle with a bumper mounted Minch is significantly harder.

 

[tobyS]

Nasty610, I was responding to the statement that a straight line pull would require less tonnage than pulling from a 10 degree angle. Maybe I'm mistaken in what was meant. He said;

"According to "my" documentation trying to recover a Leopard 2A5 (which weighs in at 65T give or take) burried 50-100 cm above its free height in clay etc would require 95 tonnes of pulling effort in a straight line pull. 110T pulling effort at a 5° incline/decline, 120-125T pulling effort at 10° etc. "

 

[Nasty610]

Yes a straight line pull on level ground would require less effort then pulling up an incline. I would think that it would require less effort though if the vehicle being recovered was above the recovery vehicle on an incline. In that situation gravity should help you pull the stuck vehicle down the hill.

 

[tobyS]

I took it the pull line was at an incline, not what was being pulled. Of course pulling a truck up a hill takes more than on level surface. But if I have a straight line pull on level ground, versus a pull at 10 degree, the straight line (horizontal) will pull against the earth where the inclined line will be pulling up...and have less line pull, not more. If the post meant pulling the vehicle up a hill takes more effort...well, that's rather obvious.

 

[TehTDK]

Nasty610, I was responding to the statement that a straight line pull would require less tonnage than pulling from a 10 degree angle. Maybe I'm mistaken in what was meant. He said;

"According to "my" documentation trying to recover a Leopard 2A5 (which weighs in at 65T give or take) burried 50-100 cm above its free height in clay etc would require 95 tonnes of pulling effort in a straight line pull. 110T pulling effort at a 5° incline/decline, 120-125T pulling effort at 10° etc. "

Which is correct, if you are trying to pull something straight "along" a level surface it will always require less work, than if you are trying to pull up an incline since you will have gravity working against you as well if that makes sense?

 

[tobyS]

Of course gravity makes a harder pull if one is pulling up an incline. But if you have a 65T load, stuck in the mud, and pull straight, horizontal, 0 degree, it will pull harder than if your cable is at a 5, 10 or more degree angle from horizontal. I'm not talking about the same thing as pulling up a hill, I'm referring to the amount of vertical lift that can be applied in addition to the horizontal pull. I certainly understand and agree that pulling up a hill increases as the angle of the hill increases.

 

[TehTDK]

Vertical lifting can potentially add more weight to the effort required ie the difference between dragging a 65T tank along a road, or lifting it off the road and carrying it etc.

 

[350TacoZilla]

I think everyone is forgetting about Warn Olympus winches, I know some fire trucks run them and looking into it they come up to 25,000lbs

http://www.warn.com/industrial/winches/olympus_25.shtml

http://www.warn.com/fire_rescue/olympus25_winch.shtml

obviously most fire trucks would have the bling bling polished unit though.

 

[HanksDeuce]

Yeah, and the Olympus is $10-15,000 depending on where you find it for sale. Too much for me.

 

[350TacoZilla]

wow I never looked into the price on them but I wasnt expecting that. I'm looking into a 17,000lb or 18,000lb unit but thats for my bobbed 923 which weighs in at considerably less than a stock one. I would say a 17K unit like the engo brand with a snatch block would have the power and you can always use a secondary strap or even proper rated chain to gain little length for the pull.

 

[TehTDK]

Im still a fan of hydraulic over electric anytime. Just down to the fact that you can't really burn it out like you can with an electric winch. And that there is no limitations on how "hard" you can run it or how many times a day you can run it without having it cool down.

 

[ShaggyTheGreat]

For the same price, a pto winch will run ALL DAY LONG, the electric will run 10min at a time(with a 40min cool down period).

If the truck is stalled say when fording water and it wont start, a electro winch will get you out, with a pto winch your EDIT.