EMP vs MEP003a & 2

[rat4spd]

"I fully agree with you that I hope this won't turn into a zombie thread. Because we all know that governments around the world have NEVER spent billions of dollars needlessly before."

Really Spedd, maybe if you did a little research on this subject...

Wow some ninny says Godzilla and suddenly this a zombie thread

I'm more inclined to believe most of the thinking is the result of increased lunacy being shown on TV. No one I know has ever expressed concern for EMP.. my military unit isn't outwardly concerned, at least they haven't said so, nor have my neighbors, wife, father, brother, or my employer, which is a power plant. Come to think of it, I know of no one that has ever mentioned it to me.

Godzilla, on the other hand, has been brought up as well as fire, flooding, and tornadoes. But then again, some may call me delusional and mildly post apocalyptic with regards to some of the thing I worry about.

Really, I'm just challenging DUG to ban me.

 

[billypop]

I never meant to create a problem. I have read that the EMP caused by a solar flare would not necessarily affect an offline generator. My question was concerning an E1 EMP and how much 'solidstate' electronics these gens have. My plan is just to make an aluminum box just slide it over it and ground the box.
Should this work or not?

 

[rat4spd]

I never meant to create a problem.

There's no problem.

 

[derf]

I never meant to create a problem. I have read that the EMP caused by a solar flare would not necessarily affect an offline generator. My question was concerning an E1 EMP and how much 'solidstate' electronics these gens have. My plan is just to make an aluminum box just slide it over it and ground the box.
Should this work or not?

There are studies and theories and there is conjecture. I've never seen a MEP with exposed electronic parts. They are already in boxes. Your question is not invalid but I think a good answer is: No one is sure. If there were cut and dried facts and figures then it might be easy to say "Yes, build a box and ground it." On the other hand, if it were that easy then maybe the military would have had the metal boxes and ground cables built into the gens. A sort of "Faraday Cage" might already exist in the form of the metal box that houses the components.

Tesla theorized that the Earth was a conductor. Isolation might be better than grounding in EMP situations.

 

[Bill W]

Yes a ground is a conductor but if you have everything tied/grounded together then there is no place or circut for the pulse to jump across in the harness being both sides of the circut will be equally charged with the pulse traveling around a transister and not going through or across it, to which you won't have arching from the supercharged pulse..or some crap like that I read up on which is why I tied/grounded all my poles together on my genset and ran it to a seperate ground rod

 

[billypop]

EMP Proof?????



Bright al. screen. 2x4 frame. gen covered with tarp. 3" gap.

Will it work???????

 

[ETN550]

The manual for the MEP802A (5kw unit that superceeds the 002A) states that it is hardened for EMP. It has a full aluminum enclosure, including bottom, plus a hinged cover for the control panel. It has major openings for air in and out, but they are baffled for noise. The side doors and panel cover have folded lips so although not sealed, there is no driect line of sight into the unit through cracks. If nothing else, it is great raido interference suppression.

 

[goldman34]

Man I really liked this it was interesting..and funny to I was a 911 dispatcher for over 10 yrs and when we had bad solar flairs it did affect communications a bit..Steel Soldiers is a rocking site to learn..I just got two Mep-003as going to get them going soon

 

[SCSG-G4]

Bright al. screen. 2x4 frame. gen covered with tarp. 3" gap.

If there is an air gap between the screen and the unit, the screen goes all over the top and sides, all the way into the ground, and then you cover the screen so it is not damaged by other environmental activities, Yes. That is the essence of a Faraday Cage. A solid metal storage building built likewise (metal overlap at the door opening) would do the same thing and would not have to have a tarp. Also not as obvious.

 

[storeman]

Some pics of the Faraday cage I'm working on.

MKT roof from GL, alum frame. 5v galvanized siding. Alum foil covered 1 1/2 " Celotex insulation (foil both sides) was used for walls and ceiling both for emp and sound deadening. Materials, except for 5v were left from my store construction in 2000.

As you can see, the herd of generators in my avatar has been reduced to two. Oil tank and yellow air hose are my quick disconnect aux fuel system.

Jerry

 

[readyman]

EMP Ground 'wires' should be wide flat braids, like battery braided cable. Braided is less 'antenna' like.

Consider that there are grounds for many different purposes. The common electrical ground is to kill unwanted voltages on places we don't want them, like the frame of the generator, or the metal handle of the drill you have in your hand. Grounds for antenna systems often provides a counterpoise for the antenna system and is part of the antenna.

But, a ground added for the purpose of avoiding EMP damage might just make things worse. Any wire attached to a device we want to protect will become an antenna to attract energy. The "ground" end will be lower potential, putting the device at higher potential above ground. Voltage is induced into objects because those objects provide a path to ground, OR, because they are resonant at some frequency. Every conductor is resonant at some frequency, thus the problem with EMP, it contains a whole spectrum of energy, DC to light, so to speak.

I leave all my "protected" stuff ungrounded and unconnected, and in as good a Faraday cage as I can provide. Faraday cage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[storeman]

My generators and the shed are not separately grounded. Shed has obvious metal contact with the surface of the concrete, generators are on HD stainless casters with rubber tires.
Jerry

 

[SCSG-G4]

Jerry,
The problem with wires is that they go outside the 'cage' that you built, which implies that there is an insulated 'hole' in the cage. If there is a large EMP event, enough EMP will enter that hole to burn up everything inside. A Faraday cage must completely isolate the device to be protected, which means the concrete floor is a gaping big hole too! The best way of fixing your doors is to have a flange all around them and put some aluminum foil in the gap that will be crushed when the door is closed. You will need to replace it every time you open the door.

 

[storeman]

SCSG-G4, (Mike)

Thanks, I hadn't thought of the outside feed and small hole in the cage. Guess the same for exhaust pipes. Will have to rethink that based on sun spot predictions. I guess foil will solve the exhaust pipes.

Do you really mean to say that emp will go into concrete, then laterally, then up through rubber casters to an isolated unit? Any references I can study?

Jerry

 

[SCSG-G4]

Jerry,

As said in another post, if you can get cell phone signals (or other wireless device) when inside, it's not EMP shielded. As far as the concrete is concerned, yes they can bounce, mainly through the rebar or wire in the concrete - some of it is 'outside' some of it is 'inside' but they transmit if the parts are either the same or are touching. Also depends on how wet the concrete is, the wetter it is the better the shielding since you have the generators on rubber pads and thus out of direct contact with the ground.

You can EMP protect the generator exhaust outside by having it go out into a large well screened area with no gaps that is attached to your shed. But, there will have to be at least a one inch gap around the metal exhaust pipe in the wall, preferably larger so vibration does not close the gap. For your electrical hookup, you need to have a break right at the wall in the circuit, on every wire including the ground. Otherwise the EMP will simply run in on the connected wire and do it's thing to whatever is hooked to it. If you never saw a van de graaff generator, look it up and watch a video, then remember they were only 50,000 to 75,000 volts, the EMP is likely to be several million volts, maybe higher.

 

[storeman]

Thanks Mike.
No cell reception or AM reception in the shed. I'll check out the remaining items.
Jerry

 

[NEIOWA]

I'm more inclined to believe most of the thinking is the result of increased lunacy being shown on TV. No one I know has ever expressed concern for EMP.. my military unit isn't outfwardly concerned, at least they haven't said so, nor have my neighbors, wife, father, brother, or my employer, which is a power plant. Come to think of it, I know of no one that has ever mentioned it to me.

Rather than start a new thread I'll dig out this old one. I'm looking for the Milspec # that defines the EMP resistance for mil gensets (and vehicles). A link would be appreciated. At issue, is an incompetent moron mayor that wants to replace a very nice MEP803A and MEP004 with residential Generac NG sets. I acquired these from DOD a few years ago to provide power for community FD/emergency shelter and sewer lift station. Generac being crap as well.

If rat is still around - DOD/the Army dropped NBC as an area of interest after Clinton cashed his mythical "peace dividend". Totally off the radar with the advent of the war on terror. So nearly 30 years. NOONE under O8/E8 has experience. So what your Co/NCOs may think/not think (in 2014) was/is irrelevant. If still in, I'd hope and trust your unit has rediscovered and is training on NBC.

Back when dinosaurs walked the earth (Cold War) EVERY FTX included extended periods in MOPP4. Days without taking the suit off. Nuc strike training was regularily trained on which included prep for blast/shock, radiation AND EMP. TO survive and return to the fight. Guess what those days are back for the Army and such train has resumed as has big mech war. The Chicoms and Russian are still a threat and they, among others, have nucs.

HEMP threat from rogue nation/actors. So is threat from CME/Carrrington. As is, depending on your location, tornado, flood, blizzard. AND mass urban refuge hordes which the nannies perhaps think are actual zombies.

Do think most of your neighbors/family even have a week of food in the house (or ANY genset_?

 

[Guyfang]

You have just never lived, until you spend 14 days in an NBC suit. When we came back from an FTX, I normally took all my NBC crap and burned it, after coming home. took more then several days to get the charcoal rings out of my skin. Or drinking in MOPP4.

 

[Zed254]

Page 8,9/46 of this Navy procedure has some references that may help: https://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Documents/afloat/Surface/Rsrcs/References/MIL-STD-1310H.PDF

and this one: https://snebulos.mit.edu/projects/reference/MIL-STD/MIL-STD-464C.pdf

 

[Chainbreaker]

Geeze, and to think last week during our area's power outage all I thought I had to worry about was the snow abating and power coming back on!

Now with all this EMP, HEMP, NBC talk... you guys are beginning to scare me!!! I think I'm gonna have to purchase a long roll of 3' wide copper screen material and rivet it across the trailer bows under the OEM trailer cover on top/sides on both my M116A2 genset trailers and run copper braid leads from the copper screen mesh to a gnd rod. I'm going to use aluminum dryer vent hose for reach through arm holes with metallic glove liners (think glove box or danger danger Will Robinson) to allow strategic access for necessary operation/service points on generator. My neighbor has some Hazmat suits I can procure and I do have my tinfoil hat at the ready as well...