Engine knocking LDS-456

[Oerthedge21]

Yeah I had figured it most of the differences between the two in terms of modifications, but all that matters is he pistons. I'm hoping that this new one weighs the same as the old one as I would really rather not have to spend ~700$ on a set of liners and pistons because I can't find a same style replacement as what I took out. Fingers crossed but with my luck I'm sure my credit card will be taking an expensive hit soon to finally get this truck back on the road

 

[cattlerepairman]

It's amazing how much of a powerhouse the LDS is compared to an LDT. Even many if my friend's were surprised that a truck this size with only a 7.8L engine could accelerate in a gear higher than 3rd. And yes, unfortunately those links send me to a 404 error, however you can fix them would be great, the more info Ifind here the better

I love my LDS.

An LDS with the 5th gear overdrive is an unbeatable combination. I am always surprised, still, how well it pulls on grades where it ought to slow down!

 

[Oerthedge21]

Im quite upset that Waterloo doesn't make he overdrive kit anymore, would've bought it in a heartbeat

 

[frank8003]

Im quite upset that Waterloo doesn't make he overdrive kit anymore, would've bought it in a heartbeat

09252013.........long time ago
Overdrive upgrade is sold out and discontinued.
http://waterloospecialties.com/

 

[Oerthedge21]

I saw, anyone know why he stopped making them? Such a great idea and apparently a very high quality final product

 

[Oerthedge21]

Well, I found an unused kitchen scale we had here and did a quick measure. The old piston, wristpin and clips included, weighs in at 3025 Grams. New one, with pin and clips, weighs 3194 Grams. Obviously they're a good bit different. However, the old piston is also missing material from the combustion crater edges which were heavily damaged, however I'm not sure if it's missing 194g worth of material. But currently, it seems like this is gonna get a lot more expensive

 

[frank8003]

forget the cob webs
Been sitting on my desk in a five year study.
It weighs 3255 grams=114.9 ounces wearing pin clips and rings.

I look at what I have and what you posted and I do see differences

View attachment 775304






I think it is for a "normal" Hercules multi-fuel engine, I don't know.
It has just been sitting here, not in the weather, it would clean up good.
The con rod and bearings ans such are still sealed up.
It all has the original numbers on the sealed packs. If you think it would help then I will get the numbers off that package the piston came in.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Hm. Thoughts that come to mind:

- 194g is a LOT of aluminum to lose. Aluminum weighs about 40g per tblsp. Does your new piston have longer piston skirts?

- weigh an undamaged piston (to eliminate the guess work around how much material might be missing); scratch that, weigh them all! How balanced are they in weight to start with? Not sure if smooth and vibration free was top of mind when these engines were assembled.
- too heavy is better than too light...at least you could consider removing material from the heavy piston to bring it closer in weight to the others (based on what you see in weight range)
- While engine rotating assemblies should be balanced, I read that a V8 regular street gas engine will run ok with 20g or so out of balance. How does that translate to a large, slow revving inline six diesel? Others might chime in

 

[Oerthedge21]

Yeah I had reached the same conclusion, I'm at my friend's house right now, gotta help him fix a truck as payment for me using his parts washer, gonna clean the heads up and then probably tomorrow or maybe today I'll pull another piston and see what it weighs

 

[davidb56]

weigh the wrist pins separately. if the wall thickness of the pin is different, there can be a large weight difference.

 

[Oerthedge21]

They're the solid type pins, not the hollow ones. Therefore they should weigh exactly the same, no?

 

[davidb56]

yes, they should be close. BTW, I've never had a LDS or LDT engine apart, but plenty of diesels, NG and Methane (Waukesha 7042's) engines apart. So Im brainstorming on my experience with other engines. In fact, I cant recall seeing a solid wrist pin, but its been years ago. Others here that have done a overhaul would be a better source of specific info.

 

[rustystud]

yes, they should be close. BTW, I've never had a LDS or LDT engine apart, but plenty of diesels, NG and Methane (Waukesha 742's) engines apart. So Im brainstorming on my experience with other engines. In fact, I cant recall seeing a solid wrist pin, but its been years ago. Others here that have done a overhaul would be a better source of specific info.

Many of the large diesel engines run solid wrist pins. In fact that seems to be the norm for them. I've used old wrist pins as punches and press pins. Good solid metal.

 

[rustystud]

Im quite upset that Waterloo doesn't make he overdrive kit anymore, would've bought it in a heartbeat

I talked today with my machinist about this very issue. I brought in all my parts and asked him how much to make one or three for me. He's looking into it now. Also as an aside he thinks it would be no trouble to make a "transmission upgrade kit". Meaning the gearing would be the same but it would use roller bearings on the second and overdrive gear. Also this unit would be "ground" instead of "lathed" . Much better for bearing longevity. I also asked about modifying the original 3052 and 3053 5th gear. That way you could have a 1:1 transmission and a normal overdrive 3053 but with the modified bearings. That way you could "mix and match" the input gears along with the fourth/fifth gears to come up with several gearing combinations. Remember the 3052 has a smaller input gear which gives you a 7:1 first gear ! Then using the overdrive gear you could still have a hi-way vehicle like the 3053. You could keep your monster tires and still go offroading without always shifting into the transfer-case. So many possibilities.

 

[Oerthedge21]

Thatd be cool for sure, you gotta let us know what goes on with that! If the rain stays away today I'll yank another piston and see what happens

 

[Oerthedge21]

Well I pulled piston #1 and weighed it, 3052g. Still way lighter than the new one. I guess I'm buying 5 more then and his trucks getting a full rebuild. Dammit

 

[Oerthedge21]

For rod bearings, are there differences? Aside form the oversize/undersize. What I mean is are there different styles of bearing or something I need to watch out for? I dont want any more weird surprises like this piston fiasco

 

[davidb56]

Many of the large diesel engines run solid wrist pins. In fact that seems to be the norm for them. I've used old wrist pins as punches and press pins. Good solid metal.

Yes. Ive worked mainly on the waukesha 7042 methane/NG engines. the waukesha engines are v12 7041 cubic inch with a 9.375 wish bore. we used the overhead crane to pull the pistons out. Some Cat and Cummins NG engines. All were stationary for either pump drive or enginators. So I don't have a large field of expertise on the large diesels, or even the small transportation/tractor diesels.

 

[Oerthedge21]

Had to do a good bit of cleaning and a lot of looking around but I found the numbers on the bearings and managed to find another set. Pistons are up next. I noticed there's a few different part numbers for these. I was gonna go with another set of 4 ring pistons since that's what came out. However, I've found a few different part numbers for 4 ring LDS piston kits. I've also found sets of cylinders and liners with new oil squirters. These sets have the two hole sprayers, my engine has the single hole ones. For the pistons without the cooling passage, would the dual hole be a better choice to spray more oil onto the piston? Or would he one hole sprayers my engine has still be sufficient? I don't wanna unevenly cool and possibly destroy a 700$ set of pistons and liners.

 

[davidb56]

there is a piston on bid/sale at you know where for a LDS for 55$. Also, isn't the LDT and LDS piston/liner set exactly the same? I was under the impression the HP was gained elsewhere, than from the short block.