Engine oil disaster, need some advise

[Robo McDuff]

While idling a bit, the engine in a short time suddenly threw out almost all oil without me noticing it. Turned out the starter had been running as well all the time due to a stuck starter button, and I sprang an air leak.

That’s the short version.

Long version. We changed oil filters and oil a few days ago. Had some problem with the new sealing not sealing completely. For one, it was a fraction different diameter as the original probably would have been, and rather thin. We had to redo both sides. One side started leaking immediately very heavy, fixed that, and then noticed the other was leaking as well. Called it a day because it was getting dark. Yesterday cleaned the second sealing and the house very thoroughly. Installed it, no leak. Had the engine running and idling away quietly without any problem for almost an hour. No problem, looked like all seals held, no oil dripping below the truck.

This morning started truck again, initially a bit hesitant and died a few times on me, but then ran and idled away. Waiting for the air buzzer to stop, I went around, checked for dripping or leaking oil, and started do some work at the rear glad-hands. Buzzer stopped, I checked, ok, put on lowest idle (around 500 rpm), and continued work.

After about 10 to max 15 more minutes checked again, noticed that the white plastic basket under the engine is full of oil, pressure on zero. I tried stop the engine, would not stop. Now I have a reluctant half stuck fuel cut-off, so I pulled harder, then noticed that the engine stopped but the starter was actually running still and restarting the engine! Hit the starter button and pulled it, broke of in my hands but at least the starter stopper.

The oil did come from the area of the oil filter housing, but the base of the housing seemed ok, that is, not heavy with oil how you would expect after losing 4 gallons. However, that whole area was full and dirty of oil and mud anyway, so it is hard to say where it’s actually coming from with all those hoses and machinery there. Any other sealings that could have gone south on me?

Starter engine was hot to the touch, but not as extreme as I would have expected. Somewhere in that area close to the frame there suddenly seems to be an air leak as well, could not identify for sure which line it was.

At least the engine was running when I stopped it, and so was the starter engine. What are my best options now how to proceed without damaging more?

 

[JDToumanian]

Wow, not a good day!

I assume you have an LDS-465 multifuel? There is an oil line that goes to the injector pump near the filters, but to me it doesn't sound like you were using the correct oil filter housing gasket.... It should be a square section o-ring. It is common for civilian filter kits to not include the correct gasket. I'd recommend investing in a spin-on conversion kit.

As for damage, I don't think I'd worry about it.... You can take the starter apart to clean and lubricate it, replace the broken start button, fix the oil filter canisters or replace with spin-ons, fill the crankcase back up, and fire it back up.

Regards,
Jon

 

[Robo McDuff]

Yep, its an LSD-465 A1.

What is a " square section o-ring"? This one was a fraction thinner and smaller than the original one. If you put it in the base, you can move it around about a milimeter. I oiled it, put it as much centered as possible, put the house on it, pushed down, and then turned the screw. That is, the house remained in place and did not move during fastening.

These filters were supposed to be the Real McCoy I picked up with REOMIE
It's US army stuff, which they ship over in bulk. I already noticed some small differences in appearances but they said this is the current stuff that worked for all 5 tons etc.

I keep trying to replay the film in my head of what happened, in the end you start wondering about yourself. However, the lowest part of the filter housing and just below it did not look that a lot of oil just went over it. Maybe something already went out during the night and starting it just speed up the leak.

You think it would be better to take the starter apart first or just check if it works first?

The starter button I wanted to keep for orinality, but for now I'll just replace it by the new keyed ignition switch.

 

[kc5mzd]

2 things I would look for would be the old gasket being left on and the gasket on the bolt at the top of the filter

 

[Robo McDuff]

Both old gaskets were off and the housing cleaned to remove remenants of the old gaskets. We actually thought about replacing the old ones, but one was split and the other actually now was too big to fit properly in the base. Top one same story, and whhen 20 liter oil goes out throug the top sealing of an oil housing, you would notice it as the place of the problem.

As some additional info, all these filters came with more sealing parts then needed, in this case a large paper sealing with bolt holes through it. Hence my idea that thse are used for several type of engines and hence can have bad fitting gaskets.

 

[fasttruck]

The oil filter "gasket" is referred to as a "non metalic washer" in the parts book as it is square in cross section and not round as an o ring is.

 

[Robo McDuff]

Thanks, this one was about 7 mm wide and only 1 mm thick (estimate)

 

[Robo McDuff]

Did some cleaning work (what a mess) and finally took off the oil filter houses. I would say they were the main problem.




But I have a problem downloading pictures, so that will come later. If you are carefull, you can just manage to cover the filter housing with the gasket, not a mm to spare. A bit to one side or some pressure...

Drained the rest of the oil. Had about a gallon or bit less left in the engine, not including the oil still in the front pan

 

[ranchhopper]

The gaskets for the filter cannisters seem to big at first but they fit in a groove once fitted into it they fit fine.

 

[Robo McDuff]

That's the problem, these gaskets are too small. Looking at the right side of pciture one, there might be a very narrow groove completely at the outer edge of the of the base, and very narrow, looking at the right side of the first picture. As you can see, if you put the gasket completely and tight against one side, you have about 2 mm uncovered at the other side.

Picture 2 is not very good, but you maybe can see the gasket laying on top of the house (held upside down). It definitely does not stick over the house at all.

So, maybe I am lucky it blew when idling at home, not when driving somewhere.

 

[Robo McDuff]

The people from REOMIE sent me a new set of gaskets, arrived today. Will try tomorrow, but it looks they will fit perfectly.

ONe question, the old gasket was your basic flat rubber ring. This is thicker but also made of different material, greyish hard paper or pressed stuff. Anybody knows those types or ahs experience with it?

 

[ranchhopper]

The ones I have on my truck are the regular gasket material they work well.

 

[Varyag]

I used the napa gold filters and they cam with gaskets that worked perfect. few hundred miles since I changed the oil and no leaks at all.

 

[Robo McDuff]

I am new to this, so what is "regular gasket material"? I only know the modern spin-on stuff and oil houses with rubber rings as main sealing". Coming to think of it, the gasket on top of the housing, between the house and the bolt, was of similar material, like the rings in old water taps.

 

[JDToumanian]

This is thicker but also made of different material, greyish hard paper or pressed stuff.

That's the right stuff.... You won't have any trouble with those gaskets, as posted above they fit into a groove in the base. When I said in my previous post "square section o-ring" I was thinking of fuel filters not oil filters. I'm glad the supplier is taking care of you...

Jon

 

[Robo McDuff]

Thianks, that's a relief to hear.

They didn't pay back the 20 liters oil I spilled, the mess, and the time. And they should have profided the right ones in the first place. But yes, in general they are OK.

 

[WillWagner]

Remember, don't let the housing turn while torquing the bolt. TORQUE it, IIRC 65ft lb.

 

[Robo McDuff]

Remember, don't let the housing turn while torquing the bolt. TORQUE it, IIRC 65ft lb.

Not turning is what we made sure to do when redoing the filters, but thanks for the heads-up. As to torquing, like my late brother used to say, stop a quarter turn before braking. Or in plain text, don't have a torque tool yet. With our old cars, we only used them for engine heads, the rest we did on feeling.

 

[WillWagner]

That is the other issue. Letting the can turn cuts the gasket. Over tightening it cuts the gasket and/or shears the pin between toe top "bolt" and the tube. Buy, borrow, rent a torque wrench.

 

[Robo McDuff]

what is the highest and what the lowest torque on bolts where you really need a torque wrench? Or better, which torque range do I need