Engine Prelube Info....

[SasquatchSanta]

Bjorn writes:

On the next one, perhaps the PVC can be burnt out so as not to ruin the threads....or some solvent that will soften it. Or simply keep the PVC fitting for a test of the pump, at least...

The threads were stripped before the PVC nipple was originally intalled. I was able to remove the broken PVC without doing further harm.

We now believe the pump can be salvaged by butt welding (heliarc) an aluminum nipple to the end of the pump head.

 

[JDToumanian]

I'll order a pump or two with intact threads and report my findings... It may be a month or so because I'm saving my pennies to get new tires for my deuce.

Calling threads "non-standard" is a misnomer, really... To call them "uncommon" would be more correct. The tap and die section in my Airgas Industrial catalog has 31 pages! Those pumps weren't made by some random air force machinist, they were made by Bendix following plans that specified a standard thread... even if it turns out to be something as uncommon as 1"-20 UNEF (unified national extra fine). I'd rather make a threaded adapter than weld, if possible.... Not that there's anything wrong with welding - it will be a perfectly good solution... It's just that I have a lathe, not a welder!

Jon

 

[jeli]

What kind of pump is this? I spoke to an engineer at work. I specifically asked about what it would take to pump motor oil at zero degrees F. We looked up the viscosity of 30 weight at zero...very thick. Granted it will warm up quickly but if you are looking to find a pump that will work at low temps it may introduce a who new level of complexity. He said a gear pump with a large inlet would work best to get cold oil moving. Now for those people who don't run their trucks below 30-40 degrees it's not nearly the issue us northerners have. Just a little fyi.

 

[JDToumanian]

Pics of the pump are on page 7 of this thread. It's a WWII surplus aircraft hydraulic pump. Pretty stout looking gear pump unit, it's rated at 3.5 gpm @ 600 psi. with 1" inlet and outlet. I'd say it's totally overkill. If your oil gets so sold that this pump won't move it, then you need a pan heater or you're gonna shear off the engine's oil pump drive!

Jon

 

[Blood_of_Tyrants]

Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Wouldn't a small hydraulic pump just love to fill this bill turning at a lower RPM than rated and only pumping motor oil for a few minutes? I am thinking a pump rigged with a lovejoy coupling would do fine with just about any good sized motor and the right torque. The hardest part would be making the right fittings for the pan and the filters.

Seems so. You only need much pressure and volume isn't too important. Put it on its own circuit and shut it off just before you crank the engine. Put a check valve inline in case you forget to turn it off. Heck, you could even put pressure switch in to shut it off after the engine oill pressure comes up.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

I've managed to get the threads cleaned up enough to use one of the Bendix pumps shown on page 7 of this thread.

The new engine is going in tomorrow or Wednesday and the pre-lube system "may" go live on Friday.

I'm trying to keep the system as simple as possible. My plans are to use a push button switch to activate the pre-pump. Once oil pressure is achieved I'll
stop pushing the pre-pump button and start pushing the starter button. A one way valve will keep the engine's oil presure pump from pumping oil back into the pre-pump

There isn't a spec tag on the motor so I have no idea as to what size it is. I need some help making some educated guesses

What size (gauge) wire should I use to wire the pump?

What Amp Fuse?

Do I need a solanoid to protect the switch?

Although rated flow is only 3-1/2 GPM the pressure rating is high @ 600 PSI. Given that I'm using a push button do you think I need a pressure relief valve?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Hopefully a complete "success" report will follow soon.

 

[cranetruck]

RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Good progress Ernie! I would wire the pump like a starter motor, just sizing the wires and solenoid (relay) accordingly. A momentary contact pushbutton switch to operate a power relay, which "turns on" the motor with a connection directly to the battery. There is no circuit breaker in the starter motor circuit since you have complete control over its operation with the switch and I don't see why you would need one for your pump circuit.
Find out the approximate HP rating for the motor and figure about 35 amps/HP approx. A mil spec power relay can handle the inrush current.
The relay would be operated from a 28 volt source that is turned on via the master switch, say wire #27 and install a diode across the relay coil. Use 16 or 14 AWG wire for the switch to relay coil.

 

[Flatlander]

RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Ernie,

What did you figure out for the threads? Are you going to use an adapter or weld on a fitting?

Love the truck....

 

[houdel]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Although rated flow is only 3-1/2 GPM the pressure rating is high @ 600 PSI. Given that I'm using a push button do you think I need a pressure relief valve?

The 600 PSI only applies to the system the pump was designed for or to a static pumping condition. The Deuce engine lube system should have a much lower back pressure than a hydraulic actuating system. Think of it as the pump pumping with the discharge port open - you will have lots of flow but very low pressure. As the Deuce oil pump is rated for something like 26 gpm max, your 3-1/2 gpm pump can't flow enough oil to build up a lot of pressure, maybe 10-20 psi, plus there are pressure relief valves built into the engine lube system.

Bjorn is right on about the wiring. Saturn has/had some inexpensive starter relays, use #4 or #2 cable for the power feed to the pump, #14 to feed the solenoid and you should be OK. you can get pre-made #4 & #2 cables at most auto parts stores pretty cheap. They come in a variety of lengths and connector options so you should be able to ge exactly what you need right off the shelf.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Thanks All!

It didn't come to me until I had already made the last post that the oil filter by-pass valve would address any possible over-pressure problems.

We were able to use the pump by cleaning the threads. forrtunately there was about four full turns of threads that were still intact. TLC in thghtening and a liberal dose of red locktite was applied.

Even if we hadn't been able to salvage the threads I think the pump could have been salvaged by welding a nipple in the end of the pump head.

Thanks for the input.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

For the sake of expediency could I use the starter relay that came off the engine I took out?

Granted it would be overkill but It's here and immediately available.

 

[houdel]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Ernie - Did you ever determine the actual thread type & size on the pump? I would think you can use a Deuce starter relay with no problem.

 

[Flatlander]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Lee, did you ever put your pump in?

 

[houdel]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Lee, did you ever put your pump in?

Too cold and snowy, too little time. I've got a garage going up in a month or so, then at least I'll have a place to work.

Of course, I also have a new major project to work on now!
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=19432

 

[OPCOM]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

What was the outcome on these pumps shown earlier in this thread?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index....ys=0&postorder=asc&highlight=spinon&start=120

Was one successfully used for prelube, and what pressure was obtained if so?

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Does this look familiar?

It will produce 50 pounds of oil pressure in 30 seconds. I'm using a mechanical gauge and reading at the end of the oil galley (turbo).

On cold winter mornings it can take as long as 60 seconds to produce 50 psi. Once the needle starts moving it quickly climbs and stops at 55 PSI.

 

[FSBruva]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Pictures of install?

Matt

 

[builder77]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Does this look familiar?

It will produce 50 pounds of oil pressure in 30 seconds. I'm using a mechanical gauge and reading at the end of the oil galley (turbo).

On cold winter mornings it can take as long as 60 seconds to produce 50 psi. Once the needle starts moving it quickly climbs and stops at 55 PSI.

I wonder if the slow uptake is due to the pump having to prime itself. No telling how good that pump is at that. Perhaps locating the pump lower, or installing a one-way-valve to prevent all the oil from draining out of the preluber system lines.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

builder77 wrote:

I wonder if the slow uptake is due to the pump having to prime itself. No telling how good that pump is at that. Perhaps locating the pump lower, or installing a one-way-valve to prevent all the oil from draining out of the preluber system lines.

You're probably right about mounting the pump lower being helpful. A one-way check valve was installed from the beginning.

 

[jdmcgowen]

Has anyone every tried a hand pump? I know it sounds odd, but it seams it would be a cheap mod for us that are lacking funds...