Engine restore oil additive and the multifuel

[gimpyrobb]

Good to see the magnets on the oil filters. Do you have them on the fuel side too?

 

[Ajax MD]

It appears that the Shell Rotella line has recently undergone a reformulation. The plain old, Rotella T (if I'm reading correctly) is going to go away.
We are also now on the "CK" cert, up from CI and CJ4.

I've always been leery of any kind of additive for anything (fuel, oil, coolant). The only additive I've ever seen provide an observable positive effect, is Sea Foam and I'm not religious about it. I just happened to observe that it cleared out the jets on my 2 stroke 50cc scooter and seemed to help the top end of my 3 cylinder diesel sailboat engine, both of which sat for long periods and had deferred maintenance.

Since I don't think my engine has ever been rebuilt, the seals are of an older material. The synthetic oils lack the solvents in conventional oils that help keep the seals intact, so I'd prefer a conventional oil. The nearest thing I can find that fits the bill is the new Rotella T4. (https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/products/conventional-motor-oil/rotella-triple-protection.html)

Frank, I agree that you just have to ante up and change the oil periodically, regardless of whether you put 500 miles or 3,000 miles on the oil. The stuff has an unused shelf life of 1-2 years in the sealed bottle so it will certainly oxidize and degrade faster sitting in the oil sump. I change my boat diesel oil annually. I never hit the minimum number of engine hours that trigger an oil change.

FWIW, the boat is a 3 cylinder, Universal 5424 based on a Kubota tractor engine block, about 36 years old. The use case is totally different than the truck:
- Rare periods of idle
- Throttle usually set to 80% of maximum RPM's and run at that speed for hours, much like a generator. The "load" of shoving the boat through the water is fairly static. The alternator charging load is trivial.

So for the truck I'm thinking, Rotella T4, no additives and at least annual replacements unless I hit the mileage or severe use triggers. If someone offers a reason why that's a bad idea, my ears are open.

 

[V8srfun]

Black stone labs will test any type of automotive fluid and give you complete analysis for something stupid cheap like $25. So if one was genuinely concerned take a sample and send it in they will tell you all you need to know. They are so specific they can tell you what components are wearing normally or excessively by examining the debris in the oil. They can identify the difference between a worn cam lobe and a rod bearing or a push rod or what ever it may be.

Corperations that hat run the largest of heavy equipment and huge engines like ships do not use oil change time or service intervals they take samples and have the oil tested periodically. When you are dealing with a engine that holds hundreds of gallons of oil you can not afford to change it just for the fun of it.

 

[rustystud]

but in my experience the proportion of engine failures that I have seen that could have been prevented from not using additives is greater than the proportion of failures that were caused by not using additives.

I'm just asking so don't get your panties in a bunch, but you say "in your experience" . Are you a mechanic ? It's always good to find another mechanic here.

 

[rustystud]

You'd be farther ahead using a CF-2 rated SAE-40 oil. It already has the higher ZDDP levels, and it uses only balls and no sticks to lubricate with. It has about the same characteristics as the old CH-4 15W-40 except for the cold weather rating.

What oils have you found that use the CF-2 standard ? The only diesel rated oils I've found out here are Delo and Rotella.

 

[frank8003]

Good to see the magnets on the oil filters. Do you have them on the fuel side too?

No magnets on the fuel filter, ran out of the "B" drive magnets. Anyhow the fuel is continuously filtered to 3 micron absolute and can be valved from 0% to 100% recirculation back to the tank. Might be the cleanest fuel tank ever. Normally I valve it to hold 3 to 6 psig out to the primary filter/engine.

I should list the filters and filter heads in the classifieds?

see post 58 in here
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?79191-Has-anyone-tried-to-fit-this-pump-in/page2

 

[Two Stroke Madness]

What oils have you found that use the CF-2 standard ? The only diesel rated oils I've found out here are Delo and Rotella.

 

[V8srfun]

I have spent most of my working career in the automotive dealers as a technician. So yes but mostly with smaller gasoline engines.

 

[rustystud]

I have spent most of my working career in the automotive dealers as a technician. So yes but mostly with smaller gasoline engines.

So are you up on all the new little screaming Honda's running 0W20 oils ? Our new little CRV runs that oil and I'm wondering what the bearing clearances are like.
How long have you been with the dealerships ? I could only handle it for one year then left. I found a good shop to park my tool box and stayed there.

 

[rustystud]

View attachment 750778
View attachment 750779

So Valvoline straight 40W oil is the one then. Looks like they make it for NAPA too. I really don't like using a straight weight oil like that in a Diesel that see's a lot of climate change like we do up here. I'll stick with my Synthetic Rotello and some ZDDP additive for now.

 

[rustystud]

Oh, just to make things interesting. On my new truck the Chevy shop recommends I use a good fuel additive to help the injection pump and injectors .

 

[frank8003]

Oh, just to make things interesting. On my new truck the Chevy shop recommends I use a good fuel additive to help the injection pump and injectors .

Did they recommend their own GM brand additive?
Is your new Chevy diesel or gas?

Another thread I find you bought a special as you wanted it diesel truck
Did you decide which additive yet?

 

[V8srfun]

So are you up on all the new little screaming Honda's running 0W20 oils ? Our new little CRV runs that oil and I'm wondering what the bearing clearances are like.
How long have you been with the dealerships ? I could only handle it for one year then left. I found a good shop to park my tool box and stayed there.

I spent one year as a apprentice under a ford technician then went to Mazda for 7 years after that I worked for emergency one as a electrician manufacturing custom fire trucks for about 2 years. Then I decided to go to the parts side of things and worked in the aftermarket as a parts sales manager for 2 yars then decided to give a dealership a go again and was a parts manager at a dealer for a year and finally now I am a lock smith that specializes in automotive car keys and remotes.

The tolerences on these new engines are extremely tight compared to older engines. I don’t know bearing clearance of the top of my head but the Mazda skyactiv engines are not even noisy without oil. The only reason I know that is one time our lube technician forgot to put oil in and did not figure it out until he was outside of the shop and saw the oil light on. The engine was just as quiet as if it had the oil in it.

This is is just speculation on my behalf so do not quote me on this but I believe the theory is flow is more important than pressure. As long as the oil is flowing to all the places it is supposed to be then pressure is not that important. The oil pressure does not provide better protection or in other words if you have a engine that has 5 pounds of oil pressure but is still maintaining proper oil flow to all components it would not be any better off with 55 pounds of pressure. Matter of fact it takes energy to produce pressure so why not save the energy and be more efficient.

I do do not know specifics about the Honda engine other than the basic knowledge that transfers over from other experience but I will say that I believe Honda makes one of the best 4cylinder engines out there for consistent performance and reliability.

I will say the reason that these manufacturers are running these light weight oils is solely driven by emissions standards. The Mazda engine is built to the same tolerances regardless of what country it is sent to but the United States vehicles are speckled for 0w20 oil and the non us engine is speckled for 5w20 oil. At this time Toyota is running 0w16 oil and there is a lot of talk about going to 0w8 oil. Our country has such strict emissions laws that these manufacturers must do everything and anything to comply. So if it means engineering a engine to use the lightest oil possible to reduce parasitic loss they will. The thing that I wonder about is that there is no specification for oil weight under 0 so it is possible that different manufacturers of 0 weight oil will perform differently. The current standard for 0 weight is that it is less than 1 weight where 5 weight must confirm to a upper and a lower limit 0 weight just has to be less than 1 but there is no spec on how much less.

 

[TGP (IL)]

Oh, just to make things interesting. On my new truck the Chevy shop recommends I use a good fuel additive to help the injection pump and injectors .

That's because there is a pending Class action Lawsuit against Bosch and GM over CP4 injection pump failure.
I'm not sure what brand additive there recommending but Stanadyne is a excellent choice IMO.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/gm-cp4-lawsuit-fuel-pumps.shtml

Tom

 

[frank8003]

interesting fuel issue
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/gm-cp4-lawsuit-fuel-pumps.shtml

 

[rustystud]

Did they recommend their own GM brand additive?
Is your new Chevy diesel or gas?

Another thread I find you bought a special as you wanted it diesel truck
Did you decide which additive yet?

The dealership recommended "Stanadyne" but I've used "Opti-Lube XPD" for years now in all my other diesel engines with excellent rusults. So I've just stuck with the Opti-Lube.
Yes my truck was a special order. Took six months to get it. It has the 6.6 DuraMax diesel along with the Allison six speed automatic and almost every option available except a "sun roof" (which I would never own !) and the DVD player. Who wants to watch movies while your driving ? I know it's suppose to be for the passengers, but really ! Just look out the window ! I also opted for the steel wheels instead of aluminum. Didn't want to hit a pot hole and have half my wheel fall off ! You can still drive with a bent wheel, but half a wheel is pretty hard to do.
I'm still learning how to operate this truck. What with all the electronics and that stupid display it has taken awhile. I don't mess with the power adjusted pedals. Once I got them right I told everyone to leave them alone. The mirrors where another learning point. I didn't know they respond to driver one and driver two. So every time I got in I had to readjust them. Then as I was reading the operators manual I came across how to set them correctly. This has been the first vehicle I needed to read the manual to understand what was going on !
I must admit I do like the heated and air-conditioned seats ! It actually has R134 coolant lines running to the seats ! Really hope they never go bad !
At first the dealership said the factory couldn't install the fifth wheel and rear hitch towing packages together. I said I wanted both so they better figure out a way. So now I have a fifth wheel and gooseneck attachment in the bed along with the electrical connectors and a class 5 hitch under the rear bumper along with the electrical connector there too.
It has a really nice exhaust brake switch on the dash along with a hill holder switch. Very handy. Also the trailer brake switch is built in to the dash on the left side of the steering wheel.

 

[rustystud]

That's because there is a pending Class action Lawsuit against Bosch and GM over CP4 injection pump failure.
I'm not sure what brand additive there recommending but Stanadyne is a excellent choice IMO.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/gm-cp4-lawsuit-fuel-pumps.shtml

Tom

I never heard of this class action lawsuit ! I wonder how far back it goes ? My brothers 1 ton Silverado is a 2014 and his injectors and pump went out on him after 80,000 miles. I asked what brand of additive he was using and he said none. Then he said the dealership asked him if he used a good additive too ! He said no of course and they said "well your suppose to" . Now hearing about this lawsuit I wonder if he can reclaim any of that $8,000.00 he spent on new injectors and pump.

I just read the article. I'm going to call my brother tomorrow.
Thanks Tom for posting it !

 

[rustystud]

I spent one year as a apprentice under a ford technician then went to Mazda for 7 years after that I worked for emergency one as a electrician manufacturing custom fire trucks for about 2 years. Then I decided to go to the parts side of things and worked in the aftermarket as a parts sales manager for 2 yars then decided to give a dealership a go again and was a parts manager at a dealer for a year and finally now I am a lock smith that specializes in automotive car keys and remotes.

The tolerences on these new engines are extremely tight compared to older engines. I don’t know bearing clearance of the top of my head but the Mazda skyactiv engines are not even noisy without oil. The only reason I know that is one time our lube technician forgot to put oil in and did not figure it out until he was outside of the shop and saw the oil light on. The engine was just as quiet as if it had the oil in it.

This is is just speculation on my behalf so do not quote me on this but I believe the theory is flow is more important than pressure. As long as the oil is flowing to all the places it is supposed to be then pressure is not that important. The oil pressure does not provide better protection or in other words if you have a engine that has 5 pounds of oil pressure but is still maintaining proper oil flow to all components it would not be any better off with 55 pounds of pressure. Matter of fact it takes energy to produce pressure so why not save the energy and be more efficient.

I do do not know specifics about the Honda engine other than the basic knowledge that transfers over from other experience but I will say that I believe Honda makes one of the best 4cylinder engines out there for consistent performance and reliability.

I will say the reason that these manufacturers are running these light weight oils is solely driven by emissions standards. The Mazda engine is built to the same tolerances regardless of what country it is sent to but the United States vehicles are speckled for 0w20 oil and the non us engine is speckled for 5w20 oil. At this time Toyota is running 0w16 oil and there is a lot of talk about going to 0w8 oil. Our country has such strict emissions laws that these manufacturers must do everything and anything to comply. So if it means engineering a engine to use the lightest oil possible to reduce parasitic loss they will. The thing that I wonder about is that there is no specification for oil weight under 0 so it is possible that different manufacturers of 0 weight oil will perform differently. The current standard for 0 weight is that it is less than 1 weight where 5 weight must confirm to a upper and a lower limit 0 weight just has to be less than 1 but there is no spec on how much less.

So your a locksmith now. I could have used your expertise a few days ago ! I needed a lock rekeyed (lost the keys) . It was one of those circular locks. Cost me $45.00 for two new keys.
Your pretty close about the oil pressure. You need the pressure, but the flow is the most important part. You need the pressure to get the proper flow into the bearings though. Especially when the bearing clearances are tight or when there is a large distance between the last oiled bearing and the oil pump. That is why you will see old Detroit Diesels running 5 PSI oil pressure when idling. Then 60 PSI when full throttle. Granted the oil pressure should be at least 30 PSI at idle on most diesel engines.

 

[Floridianson]

Mine is a 2009 GMC 3500 crew cab long bed and I got the truck used with 70k miles for 27k. I had a FASS pump installed when I got it to help with keeping the CP3 with plenty of fuel. I also have used Opti-Lube since I got it. I now have 130k miles and injector balance rates are still real good and rail pressures are correct. I also installed the Edge insight CTS2 and I can see any problems or monitor everything plus it shows me if the engine throws codes and I can clear codes. It's nice to have a new truck but with all the emission stuff and that dang DEF filter that needs to be cleaned as said new is nice but not the price.

 

[rustystud]

Mine is a 2009 GMC 3500 crew cab long bed and I got the truck used with 70k miles for 27k. I had a FASS pump installed when I got it to help with keeping the CP3 with plenty of fuel. I also have used Opti-Lube since I got it. I now have 130k miles and injector balance rates are still real good and rail pressures are correct. I also installed the Edge insight CTS2 and I can see any problems or monitor everything plus it shows me if the engine throws codes and I can clear codes. It's nice to have a new truck but with all the emission stuff and that dang DEF filter that needs to be cleaned as said new is nice but not the price.

Yes, I'm not to pleased about the DEF fluid and filter system either. The only problem with buying used is, if you don't know who owned the vehicle and how they took care of it you just gambling that this will be a good vehicle.