Engine Swap

[abh3]

I'm a newbie to modifications and need some input... I have a nice 'spare' duece with a bad engine (looks like the bottom end wasn't torqued and basically fell apart in 2,500 miles!) that I'd like to play around with since my other has a dump body and is a work vehicle...

I have a sweet V555 Cummins (yeah, I know, love or hate, no middle ground) with less than 50K miles on it. I also can come up with an Allison AT545 4 spd auto OR an RT-610 10spd for a transmission if necessary.

1) What is the bellhousing size on the M35 trans, SAE #3?
2) Any experience with the V555 in a duece?
3) Any experience with AT545 or RT-610 in a duece, will the auto last or the 10 spd fit?

The alternative is a 440 w/ 727 automatic, that might work for light duty woods riding but I like to be able to burn off-road diesel, hydraulic, used oil, etc.!

Thanks for your time.

 

[doghead]

Welcome to the site. Please add you location to your info. We want to know where you are.( It's one of the only reqirements here) The bellhousing is sae3 i believe.

 

[Stretch44875]

Couple of people have put v8 diesels in, but very tight fit, and lot of fab work. I think an auto would be a neat idea, but the stock deuce tranny has overdrive and still only does 56mph.

I thought about putting my 9.0L (551ci) v8 international in a deuce, but it's only 180hp. With the stock deuce engine turned up a bit, pretty sure I am at least 180 hp.

Dennis

 

[WillWagner]

You can't use the words sweet and V555 in the same sentance! Expensive when it brakes and V555 is OK. If you're around the Los Angeles Area, Look up Larry Fyke. He's THE 555 guy.

 

[abh3]

I hope my info shows up now...

The V555 runs so smooooooth, maybe because it's a V-8 and I'm used to tractors & dozers or maybe it's just a low hour engine. I hear they worked better in boats with steady rpm than in trucks, hence the bad rep. What I'm worried about it the oil pan to front axle clearance. This isn't a street machine here and a broken oil pan in tha woods is no fun! The Duece frame rails are actually a tiny bit wider than the KW firetruck where the V555 lives now so it should fit... with some WORK. I've done some swaps before and I realize they are always more complicated than thought initially! The V555 has an SAE #3 so that end should work, the front mount is different of course.

I guess the easiest thing would be to replace the multiful but the only one I've found close by is several times more expensive than the what I have in the truck and i just want to have a 'ranch-ride' machine, it won't be fully loaded, etc. I've been emailing a member in N.C., a long way from here, about an engine but shipping would be the wild card.

The next easiest option would be the 440/727, with the added benefit of no god-awful howl of the muli-fuel but then there is the air problem and 24v challenge, nothing that cubic dollars thrown liberally at the problem couldn't fix...

The Allison would be nice so I could steer the beast and not worry about shifting too but I don't know much about these transmissions in the real world.

Thanks for the input so far!

 

[abh3]

Im having trouble with changing my profile to reflect my location, machines, etc... Maybe I'm just rattled by the 'click to start ActiveX' message that appears with every new page.

I'm in NW Florida if it still doesn't show up.

 

[mangus580]

abh, the activex message is a pop-up window notifiying you of private messages.

 

[abh3]

Man, I'm striking out on a mutifuel, tried to trade the V555 for one today, about 100 miles away but no go... It's reputation proceeds it!! I'm going to post in the wanted section as well...

 

[clinto]

ABH, I think if it were me I would rebuild your multifuel. I have to assume the crank and rods are damaged if it wasn't torqued properly, but is the block trashed? I should think someone here could turn your onto an LD core short block somewhere...........

Lot less monkeying and fabricating that way...........and probably increased resale.......

 

[rdixiemiller]

Where are you in NW Fla? I grew up between Ft Walton Beach and Panama City, little town called Point Washington.

 

[abh3]

I'm north of DeFuniak Springs, out in the sticks. If you haven't seen Pt. Washington lately you wouldn't recognize it, lots of building down there lately...

What happened with this engine is that the oil pump mount bolts fell out allowing the whole assy. to move down and the driven gear was no longer driven. Then some airman down on Eglin drove it until a main bearing spun and the rest, incl.rods look pretty bad too! Several main bolts were barely tight so it looks to me it wasn't put together right initially, our tax dollars at work. The crank is pretty seriously blued,etc. An outfit online gave me a price of something like $2G for a crank, $100 PER bearing, etc. I got up off the floor and explained that I wasn't the DoD but he didn't care... I've seen cranks on Ebay but never got replies about specifics, if the bearings were in decent shape, shipping and all... It looks like 'fixing' can't be done for lack of parts (AND this motor ran with no oil pressure for some time) and rebuilding will cost more than just buying another running truck given the outrageous parts bill plus line boring that it probably needs after spinning a bearing. Several parts trucks w/engines just sold at Montgomery ANG for $300-400 but I just don't have time load and haul, plus there might be reason that engine is still there!

It's a tough deal to realize these trucks are just scrap without a spare mulitfuel or LOT$ of $$ at the ready, hence the swap idea...

 

[Katch1]

I would stick with the multi, be patient and you will stumble accross one. I have found mine to be a good unit, if a lottle noisy. There are surplus dealers on-line that have multis for sale for the kind of money that guy wants for a crank. Then theres all the swap meets around the country, they are an adventure to boot.

 

[WillWagner]

Too bad you're 3000 miles away. I know a guy who has 5 or 6 multi fuels sitting on shelves, but, they are less turbos.

 

[rdixiemiller]

My Mom lives out at King Lake. Which little wide spot are you from? I bought a good engine in the can for $440 or so from GL. There are usually engines to be found for $700 or less if you look. If you spun a main, the engine is not worth rebuilding, IMHO. It can be done, but is not economically feasible. How does your other truck look? Most of the Eglin trucks I have seen have been pretty rusty......

 

[abh3]

I'm west of the big city of Gaskin, up on the state line in God's Country...

I check GL all the time but those engines in the can are always 1700 miles away. Also, I used to go to all the farm/equipment auctions around here and there were plenty of engines in the can but not anymore...

I think you are right about rebuilding, there's likely more damage from lack of oil pressure in the rest of the engine, it may be fine but, unless it could be done REALLY cheaply, it's a long shot to just throw a crank in it...

This truck has some rust bubbles in the corner of one door, almost no miles and a TITLE so it's a combination I can deal with if I can find one of these inexpensive engines I keep hearing about! I'm beginning to regret not buying one of the parts trucks at Montgomery for maybe $400 or so and just paying a big wrecker to drag it here since time is in shorter and shorter supply the older I get...

I can't stand the idea of paying $1800-2000 for an engine when, for a bit more, you could drive a decent truck home!

 

[abh3]

OK, there is an LDS4651A on Ebay (thanks 'lovesbloodhounds'!), this is a 5 ton engine so will it bolt into my M35? I found some info that the oil pan needs to be flipped around... Will this bellhousing/flywheel work with the M35 trans and frame? Can the LDT465 bellhousing/flywhell be substituted if necessary?

I'd hate to walk into a an engine swap, instead of replacement, by accident!!!

Thanks for the input so far!

 

[jwaller]

I should have a complete multi home from GL in the next week or so. I'd be willing to part with it if you need it.

 

[houdel]

I also am due a Multi from GL in the near future. It is a non torbo, but it looks like a cherry engine and your turbo parts are a bolt on swap. PM me if interested, I can send some pics when the engine gets here. GL sucks, it took them so long to get the paperwork flowing that by the time it got to DRMS the date on the EUC has expired! I had to fax them a new EUC page 2 with the current date so they could process the paperwork!

 

[WillWagner]

Watch the turbo. Remember you said the lube pump dropped down and it ran with no lube. The bearings in the turbo are most likely damaged.

 

[abh3]

The most likely multi candidate has 800 hrs and also a bad turbo... Just my luck! What should I look at with my old turbo to see if it's damaged, I can only imagine what one would co$t!! Big truck and equipment turbos have much more 'slop' in them than automotive turbos so that's no measure. Can it be taken apart for examination without tearing anything up?

I've decided that just repalcing the crank would be a mistake, on an F150 headed to the auciton, sure, but I'm keeping this machine...

The LDS is still a possibility, just a matter of hitting 'bid now' but it has been sitting a long time on a pallet God knows where and someone has been fooling around with the injectors, robbing it for good ones probably... Or maybe I should wait for the rebuilt engine on GL over in Jax, look out guys, I have a high limit on my Visa!