Exterior Latex/Acrylic House Paints

[SteveKuhn]

"...The paint I used was Sherwin William (Regal Select, high build exterior flat finish) it is acrylic..."

First, those pictures helped me a lot. Not to be argumentative, but Regal is a Ben Moore line as the label attests. 'River Rock' is a great color I know well from last week, hence all my questions. We tried to use it for the base of the formula I'm working on but even darkened it came out too light and too green under sunlight and at most angles. The result was really very good, but not what I wanted for restoration.

We tried again using only black, red oxide and yellow oxide and it's so close that I had say leave it there for now.

Regal happens to be a very good line of paint. I'm playing with their Ben housepaint, Patio/Deck, and SuperSpec (formerly 'IronClad') lines (alkyd and acrylic) for mine.

It's my considered opinion, after using both the HD and Lowes base brands, that the premium lines like BMoore and probably SWilliams are worth the extra $ per gallon due to faster curing, particularly in dark colors. Behr documents their slower dark color curing times. I used it for a dog training floor in a greenish-black and it took about 3 weeks to become truly usable without touchup after every class.

It would be fine in the drier southwest, but in humid areas like I'm in, curing is a big deal. BMoore is safe against light/moderate rain in about 4 - 6 hours.

As an aside, I'm also trying something I picked up from a hot rod forum - wiping down alkyd with Wilbond (liquid sandpaper) to dull the glossier finish. Jury is still out because I'm not sure how even I can get the result.

Thanks for the followup post.

 

[wsucougarx]

After reading this very informative thread, I set out for the Depot today. I came back with two large samples, $2 for each. I am painting my M1009 in 3 color, what is the paint code for the brown/tan.....the brown color code on page 1 appeared to be too dark. If I missed something I'm sorry.

This is a great thread!

Hey there go back to post 52. I put a pic up. If thats the color brown you want then follow the link i provided for the behr paint recipe.

 

[topgun217]

OK. I thought I had missed something. Thanks! The young fella at the Depot looked at me pretty strange after he mixed the green and black in the sample containers.......He did however work up enough courage and asked " Are you painting your house these colors?" I simply replied: "Yep" Then he gave me an even stranger look!

 

[mkcoen]

Here's my attempt at Sinai Grey. It's about 1/2 way between the 2 versions that I had as samples so I doubt anyone could tell it's not the original.

After drying a couple of days it's showing more of a semi-gloss than a dead flat sheen but the texture is still pretty rough and I may have to wet sand it a little after drying fully.

I painted this on with a brush over the OD I had originally planned and with only 1 coat you can still see the brush strokes. I plan to thin it and spray it on the rest of the body.

While I doubt there are many looking for this color I've included the paint code any way.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Matching 'Aged 383' with Benjamin Moore

Maybe someone will benefit from this. I've noticed that a bunch of the M101A3s have a darker green that I suspect is 383 aged. My friend's needs touchup, and the racks and bows are desperate for a paint job. The bows are multiple shades of green from weathering, age and the like. The Gillespie is just too light and too yellow and sticks right out.

One bow matches the trailer color.I took it in and this is the match by starting with a chip and adjusting by eye.

In looking at the photos, I notice that the camera emphasizes differences that the eye doesn't see. Photos don't come across the same shades on all monitors. The dark green to the left is the Gillespie camo that I tried when the 383 didn't match. I think the small section with the BM is pretty easy to miss.

Here's the formula. The typeface was too small to photograph w/ my camera.;

Gallon
Y3 5x 9.0000
S1 4x 4.0000
W1 0x 16.0000
G1 1x 24.0000

 

[spartan_185]

Here's my contribution. I painted my M35 back right before the 4th of July. I used the codes provided here on this thread for the black and brown in the three color camo scheme, and I matched the green to a CARC'd fire extinguisher bracket. I used the exterior ultra flat Valspar Duramax paint that they sell at Lowe's. They say it has something like a 20 yr warranty. I don't know if that applies to vehicles or not. Its water based and you can thin it down pretty far. The base coat of green was applied with a Wagner power painter and the brown and black were done by hand following the pattern in the TM. If I recall correctly, I used 5 gallons of green, gallons of black, and two gallons of brown. We were at the local fireworks display when these pictures were taken. I can truly say that I am very happy with the results and the paint seems to wear well. I will use the same paint again when I paint my M923 and M109 solid green.

 

[Augdog1964]

Armor?

Guys,

I'm getting ready to start a repaint on my BPzV (BMP-1 recon vehicle) and was wondering if this acrylic latex paint was taking abuse well? This armor is walked on everytime someone climbs in, and would have to take shoes and boots well. Some states are really stopping all enamel sales (Ohio has I was told). The nice thing is custom matched colors with the latex stuff and no hazmat... anybody who has done this and had to walk on their truck want to chime in?

Thanks in advance!

 

[SteveKuhn]

Not on my truck, but on my porch floors, dog training floor, warehouse floors, etc. I'm picking up a gallon of patio/porch in about an hour to try instead of regular housepaint for the Deuce. New color match. Very enamel like in handling. Depending on the brand, Floetrol or the mfr's recommended extender slows it down and makes it flow even better. I'm told Floetrol was made for older latex and the newer acrylics like the mfr product better if it's available.

The latex porch/patio finishes are actually very durable and less prone to marring than the current polyurethane alykds I've tried. They generally hold color better. They are not more durable in terms of wearing off. BUT - I've gotten 5 - 6 years in my most brutally high traffic areas. But like anything else, you'll need to refinish sometime. And above all use multiple light coats and LET IT CURE before exposing to real uncareful traffic!!!! You can walk on it in 24 - 36 hrs, but leave adequate time before letting everybody crawl on it. Read the label fine print for full usage and add 25 - 50%, more time with humidity. That's my bugaboo with the Behr products, esp. in dark colors.


A thought: The top of Deuce fenders and several other spots have the sanded coating for walking. If you can do that on your vehicle in the highly travelled spots without screwing up your project, those will be quick 'n easy spots to recoat. Nobody will ever know you used a brush on that texture.

 

[Augdog1964]

Thanks!

Thanks SteveKuhn...

I wasn't aware that you can have the floor paint custom color matched... is that possible? I think the sand idea is a very good one. The vehicles did not have this originally, but it would make them safer and much easier to maintain the high wear areas... I'll look for some info on adding that!

Thanks!

 

[SteveKuhn]

Sand Finish for Walking Areas

Sand is something we put on contact surfaces of agility dog training equipment a lot. I think you'll find the following:
- Most paint companies offer custom colors in the acrylic patio/floor. Not all offer Base 4 that is used in most dark colors. Behr and Ben Moore do. You'll have to take a match sample and ask your vendor.
- You can use either grit sold at paint stores for the sand or just buy a [cheaper] bag of playbox sand.
- It can be mixed in the paint for a rougher texture (stir every brush load or so). That's what's on my Deuce. Or, sprinkle/scatter on wet paint and blow off when the paint sets. Much finer, like a swimming pool diving board. Reapply 'til desired texture is reached. A light coat of paint on top makes the color dominant over the sand.
- The high spots in the sand are what will take the wear of traffic.

_______________________________

<-- Always remember. NEVER forget.

 

[Augdog1964]

Thanks!

I appreciate the info... the sand in strategic areas will really help quite a bit. The floor paint should add to durability as well... I'll see if I can't find a tintable floor paint around here... thanks!

 

[goldwing2000]

To answer some other members questions. The paint I used was Benjamin Moore (Regal Select, high build exterior flat finish) it is acrylic. I want the paint to be FLAT on my truck other wise I would have used alkyd enamel to match the original sheen. Here is better picture next to the Original USMC Jerry Can. I want others to see what can be done, I hope this helps.

Do you have the code for that color? USMC green is the color I want to paint my truck.

 

[Vintage iron]

Goldwing2000 the code code is (river rock 2139-10) Any Ben Moore store can help you. What sheen are you going to do? I like the flat myself. Prime all the rusted areas first. If you use rustoleum let it dry for a few days before top coating.

 

[goldwing2000]

Definitely flat. Weird, when I look up that color on Benny's web site, it looks more brown. No?

river rock 2139-10 Paint - Benjamin Moore river rock Paint Color Details

 

[Vintage iron]

Yeah, you can't go by computer scenes. I always take the color chip outside before I make my final decision and when in doubt do a sample area. I wanted to same paint and they don't do flat samples. I bought a quart just to be sure.

 

[goldwing2000]

Dang. Wish I could see your truck in person. Doesn't help that I'm partially red/green colorblind, either.

 

[Vintage iron]

Pm me your address and I will see about sending you a sample if you want.

 

[goldwing2000]

Eh... it's cool. I guess I can just go to the store and buy a sample. If it doesn't look right, I'll just paint a jerry can with it or something. Thanks, though!

 

[SteveKuhn]

Acrylic 24087 Semi Gloss (Benjamin Moore)

"...I would like to find the formula for Vietnam Era semi gloss OD 24087...QUARKZ"

Here's a Benjamin Moore formula:
P29-4B (acrylic) gallon (for alkyd use P24-4B) both semi gloss
OY 6X5
RX 22
BK 7X1

You could probably try it in most Moore 4 base products (satin Patio; semi gloss house paint, low luster acrylic or alkyd) and have it close enough as is or tweak-able. BUT for about $10/gallon, I really recommend the industrial paint. The formula might tweak a bit between the P29 acrylic and P24 alkyd semi gloss bases if you're testing smears over top of Gillespie or each other, but I suspect that 2 trucks sitting in a show line probably wouldn't be noticeable unless the sun was just right. Other mfr's bases and pigments might not translate as closely with this mix.

If anybody tries this, I'd love to hear their comments on the accuracy of the match. I'd post a color comparison picture, but I don't have a camera that will record an accurate, noticeable difference.

Stop reading here if details bore you. It's sorta organized, sorta stream of consciousness. It took a lot of hours and enough money in test mixes to have painted the truck to get this information. I hope the following information will save someone else trouble, money, or disappointment.

• Don't go by the color in the can or while it's wet. It's close to 383 that way. It has to dry to get to its color.
• The bases I've posted are not low cost per gallon of paint, but it is cheaper than shipping Gillespie w/ HAZMAT fees ($45 - $50 from dealers.) It's also readily available in this region. House & porch/pation acrylics are about 25% less.
• Super-Spec (alkyd or acrylic) is not designed as floor paint but you can walk on it when cured. For the bed or cab floor, consider the satin finish Patio/porch. I believe that it's epoxy. Note: Not all alkyd makes good floor paint.
• The P29 acrylic sticks like mad. If it dries on your fingers, it doesn't wash off easy like house paint. Boraxo, nail brush and scrub and you'll still have some in the cuticles.
• Primerless, unless you really want to: P29 & P24 are the Moore SUPER-SPEC industrial line, not house paint. Both are 'DTM' or DirectToMetal (ferrous, not galvanized) meaning primer not required so long as metal is new or rust is thoroughly wire brushed and sanded. Personally, I'd use RustMort or the like to prep. That would serve the purpose of killing rust and eliminate the time required for red primer to cure before using acrylic.
• The TDS for each product:
  Super Spec HP D.T.M. (Direct to Metal) Acrylic Semi-Gloss P29
  Benjamin Moore Super Spec HP Alkyd Semi-Gloss Enamel P24
• I'm firmly convinced that there is no such thing as a perfect acrylic match to the alkyd 24087 Gillespie, simply because acrylic reflects light differently than alkyd. The color can appear perfect inside or from one angle, but this light handling can throw it off in other circumstances. That said, this is a formula that I personally think falls within the color variance one finds between cans of paint from different batch run numbers.
• 24087 has 3 distinct components based on light level and angle: green, brown and the olive mixture of the two. My criteria was that it didn't need to be exactly the same as the Gillespie at a given angle, but it had to present those 3 colors accurately enough to confuse it with the Gillespie if studied on its own.
• Colors can be made up by several different combinations of pigments. This formula evolved from 5 different combinations with gallons of different pigment combinations. Each was tweaked multiple times until they proved just not able to be 'it'.j
• Different computers for different companies' paints will recommend different pigment formulas. Watch out for the subtleties of light handling if you're being picky.
• Starting with a paint chip sample that's close can lead down the wrong road. That happened with River Rock in this test. Wrong pigments.
• Each test was done side-by-side w/ fair sized ares of Gillespie spray cans on the truck, outdoor light, and viewed after at least 24 hours in varying light conditions from varying viewing angles and distances.
• I also compared it to the aged original 24087 that is exposed on the truck (slightly darker than Gillespie). I could have gotten that with a bit more depth or a tad of black.
• This formula started with a computer match and was tweaked 9 times by eye until the bucket of base was saturated with pigments, had no room in it and 3 of the paint store guys and I agreed that we'd gone as far as we could.
• The P29 acrylic is extremely fast to set. Among the tests I tried was rolling it with a microfoam roller. Although the product warns against using extenders, it took double the recommended maximum amount of Moore acrylic extender to slow it down enough to flow out with minimal roller trace. I consider the max working time to be about 2 - 3 minutes per section or panel. Rollijng like this yields more of a satin than semi gloss finish but it looks great.

After all this playing around to get a good acrylic substitute, I considered what would go in to making the acrylic work as my schedule permits (panel at a time, 1 - 2 hour sessions working around the truck from prep to paint). I decided that the spray cans were the only choice. Prep, prime, spray a section in one short session then pick up and move on from there next session. I wanted the semi from spray, not the satin from rolling - only because I wanted to be that much closer to original for restoration.

With the luxury of doing a full prep and mask then spraying, I think either of these would work quite well. I'm going to use both the P29 acrylic and P24 alkyd instead of Gillespie gallons for racks, bows, frame, suspension, etc., and the Porch/Patio for the floor and bed deck.

 

[Torisco]

Thanks for the info on the paint formulas.