Fan Belt Problem on recovery

[oddshot]

OK ... I wasn't *completely* forthcoming about my recovery. Before I discussed this I wanted to a) check the manual, b) search the forum, and c) re - remove the belts and check the alternator and water pump for something obvious.


anyoldways ...

When I picked up my Deuce ... I saw that it had NEW belts on the engine. I didn't think anything about it really ... I just thought somebody had replaced them.

I drove about 400 miles ... I pulled off the interstate and did my "walk-around" check EVERY 100 miles ... and didn't see any problems.

And then ... out of the blue ... I heard a kinda "pop" ... and I saw temp gauge and electrickery meter start to go in the wrong directions ... so I pulled off IMMEDIATELY to avoid a possible over heat.

Both belts had broken. When I looked them over ... I could see that they BOTH belts stretched in TWO places (not "burned like by friction" ... but STRETCHED like they got pulled VERY hard).

BOTH belts BROKE when they got too thin.

But ... both the water pump AND the alternator pulleys were free and spun freely when I check them.

I was able to get 2 belts from a close by Advance auto parts ... I installed them ... and finished the trip with NO PROBLEMS.


As a mechanic ... I have seen HUNDREDS of belts that got old ... and failed.

But these belts are in "very good" to "as new" condition ... the rubber is soft and supple ... there are NO signs of drying and cracking ANY where.

I contacted the Previous Owner ... and asked about the new belts ... he told me that when he recover his trucks from Texas ... and drove them home to Maryland ... this truck BROKE its belts on the way home. He replaced the belts and have no further problems for two years.

Earlier this week, I pulled the belts back off ... and looked EVERYTHING over. Both the water pumps and alternator spins free ... there is no bearing play in either ... everything looks good.


Obviously something locked up ... but what?

The only other time I have seen belts do this ... was on a big snow thrower. If it picked up up a VERY heavy load of watery, icey slush ... it would break a belt ... mostly because the previous owner had replaced the shear pins with bolts!


Has anybody else seen a deuce break belts like this?

oddshot

 

[RANDYDIRT]

That belt doesn't look stretched. It looks like something locked up. Something like a hunk of gravel in the water pump?????

Dirt

 

[Wildchild467]

looks to me like something made it lock up and the belt did a burnout on the crank pulley. If it had new belts on it when you got it, maybe they were not installed correctly and failed on your trip. maybe one of the little knotches on your belt was over the timing pointer by the crank pulley and allowed it not to turn? just a thought. look for any area around the belts where metal could be shiny where the belt would have rubbed. If the belts you put on now, failed, then i would worry.

 

[Pooch1128]

I agree with randydirt, you might want to pull off water pump and see if theres some "foriegn" object in it..

 

[Heavysteven]

Are bolts holding the alternator are tight?

 

[oddshot]

That belt doesn't look stretched. It looks like something locked up. Something like a hunk of gravel in the water pump?????

Dirt

Its real hard to get good pictures of this ...

The belts stretched and broke. On one of the belts ... the white label and writing got quite a bit longer ... I'll try to get a better picture.

Each of them stretched in TWO places ... like they got pulled REAL hard REAL sudden like.

This was no gradual event ... like they was loose or something.

I didn't hear or smell anything before they let go ... because this was a recovery ... I was keeping watch VERY hard. I DID hear a *pop* when they let go ... then saw a change in the gauges ... I knew what it was before I actually saw it.

There is NO burned, or melted place on them ... there is NO burned smell on them anywhere.

Obviously something locked up. What ever it was it was solid enough to stretch them until they broke.

Its odd that it the same thing happened to the previous owner.

I'm considering pulling the water pump out ... just with the idea that something jammed the impeller. Maybe something is swimming around in the block ... watching ... waiting ...

I don't know much about this alternator ... I don't know if there is something inside that could lock it up ... but I'm reading the manual on that one.


I'm DEFINITELY going to replace the belts I put on with industrial belts ... and throw the set I put on in the tool kit as spares.

This one is a weird one ...

What ever it was that locked up ... DEFINITELY let go after it did the dirty deed

oddshot

 

[oddshot]

Are bolts holding the alternator are tight?

Yeah ... when I took it all back apart I checked to make sure the mounts were tight ... and there wasn't anything broken.

The belts were tight when I picked the truck up ... I gave them a push to check before I shut the hood.


The more I think on it ... I bet I find something behind that w/p ... it almost can't be anything else.

Its just kinda odd that it didn't stay locked up.

I am REALLY glad I caught the whole thing before it overheated!!!

oddshot

 

[73m819]

Yeah ... when I took it all back apart I checked to make sure the mounts were tight ... and there wasn't anything broken.

The belts were tight when I picked the truck up ... I gave them a push to check before I shut the hood.


The more I think on it ... I bet I find something behind that w/p ... it almost can't be anything else.

Its just kinda odd that it didn't stay locked up.

I am REALLY glad I caught the whole thing before it overheated!!!

oddshot

If something in the w/p locked things up, the released tenson of the belts letting go would kick the object loose

 

[RANDYDIRT]

ODD, look at picture 3. That belt was burnt in two. If you still think it stretched and snapped, then explain where the cogs off the inside of the belt went. Something is locking up causing the crank pulley to eat the belts.

Dirt

 

[gimpyrobb]

You have any rust on the pulleys? I had an issue with my truck eating belts and thats what caused it.

 

[emmado22]

Perhaps it is just the trucks way of saying "Hi" to it's new owners...

 

[Westech]

V Grove belts do not stretch. You should know that being a "Tech". V grove belts have nylon belts like a tire in them to prevent the belt from stretching. Yes Gates makes a stretch fit belt but that is a 4-8 rib and have been made sense 2009. V belts are not. All you wanna be techs do research before posting about stretching belts... I can just see what you Noobs are going to say. So don't.

Anyway your belts were 100% burned off. Like what was stated a locked up pulley. I don't think there is anything in the water pump.. if it locked up the pump it still would be locked up.. that object would have been crushed in the fins damaged the pump (happened at least twice) There is at least 15-20 HP worth or force on that pump if the pulley stopped and the belts were still trying to turn.
Turn the alternator and check the cooling fins.. make sure you don't see bent, missing, fins. If you were to look close you would see the belt shavings on what pulley or around the pulley that was still moving... That is a dead give away on what was moving and what was stopped. But I am sure you already did that being a "Tech". I am betting on the alternator having a issue. There very ez to take apart and look over. I would start there.. clean it all up, check the bearings, brushes for burn marks or any internal arcing.

 

[WillWagner]

If a driven pulley, alternator, w/p, caused the belt to stop moving the only place there would be shavings would be at the drive pulley, that unfortunatly won't point to what stopped the belt movement.

Seen both alternators and w/pumps lock up. Usually when an alternator causes this issue it stays locked up. A water pump can lock up and get freed up from the junk in the volute area that isn't supposed to be there. Seen nuts, bolts, rocks and even a socket cause issues there. Smaller items will dislodge themselves after the lock up, larger odd shaped things, like bolts, will stick in the impeller and if the impeller is metal and not of the plastic/nylon type, will freeze up the pump. The plastic/other type of impellers just get worn down slowly or break.

And, V belts DO stretch. Ever see a belt sitting in the groove and the forward or rear edge is rolled up out of the groove? How about when two belts curve toward each other? That is caused by the belt backing being WAY over tightened and some of the cords have stretched un evenly. That is why a tension gauge should be used when installing new belts and during maintenence.

 

[oddshot]

V Grove belts do not stretch. You should know that being a "Tech". V grove belts have nylon belts like a tire in them to prevent the belt from stretching. Yes Gates makes a stretch fit belt but that is a 4-8 rib and have been made sense 2009. V belts are not. All you wanna be techs do research before posting about stretching belts... I can just see what you Noobs are going to say. So don't.


Although I am a Deuce Nube ... I am NOT a Nube Mechanic. I've been a mechanic on cars for over 30 years, I owned my own shop (10 years) and worked my way from lead tech, to working shop foreman, to service manager of a Porsche Repair shop (12 years).

I am currently enrolled in college to become a teacher/instructor of Auto Tech on a college level.

I ain't "throwing my weight around" either ... I don't call myself a "tech" ... or an "expert". An "ex" is a has been ... and a "spert" ... is just a little drip. I don't much like folks who use those terms to beat people up.

I'm just a old timey "wrench".

This having been said ... I am ALWAYS the first to say ... I don't know ... and I Havent seen EVERYTHING. Nobody has. But I HAVE seen belts stretch before ... not in an automotive use ... but I HAVE seen it. These belts do not show signs of being heated ... they do not smell burned, neither is the rubber melted in any place.

But that is all besides the point.

Something locked up momentarily ... and the belts are broken.

The important thing is to find the cause.


Anyway your belts were 100% burned off. Like what was stated a locked up pulley. I don't think there is anything in the water pump.. if it locked up the pump it still would be locked up.. that object would have been crushed in the fins damaged the pump (happened at least twice) There is at least 15-20 HP worth or force on that pump if the pulley stopped and the belts were still trying to turn.


Turn the alternator and check the cooling fins.. make sure you don't see bent, missing, fins.

I checked this ... twice. No bent or missing fins ... the alternator is as free as a breeze. so is the water pump.

If you were to look close you would see the belt shavings on what pulley or around the pulley that was still moving... That is a dead give away on what was moving and what was stopped. But I am sure you already did that being a "Tech".


Yes, I did check for that too. An odd thing ... is that BOTH belts had (lets call them) "reduced areas" (stretched or burnt) in TWO places ... not quite the distance between the alternator AND the water pump.

The belts between the two "reduced areas" are as fine as wine.

Its almost as if ... something locked up ... then freed up ... then locked up again to give the belts the coup de' gras.

No shavings ... or bits of rubber anywhere. No rust in the pulleys.



I am betting on the alternator having a issue. There very ez to take apart and look over. I would start there.. clean it all up, check the bearings, brushes for burn marks or any internal arcing.

Its got to be either the water pump OR the alternator ... there just ain't nothing else.

However, THIS (the above in large letters) is an important thought.

I have ZERO experience with these alternators ... or with 24 volt systems AT ALL.

Please remember that the same thing happened to the previous owner ... that's why the belts were new to begin with. He was recovering the vehicle from Texas ... and driving a long distance to Pennsylvania. The belts broke on that long drive .... and then he never had a problem with it again! BUT ... he never took it on another long run again. Not until I picked it up ... and drove it 657 miles in one trip.


Although I did NOT remove the Alternator ... I DID look it over pretty good ... it spins free, there are NO broken mount or loose mounts. there are NO play or bends in the pulley ... every thing spins free with no wobble. When I spin the shaft ... I cannot feel any bad spot or binding in a bearing.



AS I mentioned ... I am NOT familiar with 24 Volt systems ... or this alternator.

Is there a way this alternator can "lock up" ELECTRICALLY ... some sort of short somehow? I've never seen it ... but like I said ... I'm in unknown water here.

Like I said ... its got to be the alternator OR the water pump ... there just ain't nothing else.

Both are gonna get pulled and checked out before I do much more with it.


Thanks for the hand Westech and all the rest of you guys ... I really appreciate you guys "head scratchin' with me!!!

WE will figure this out ... and I'll buy the beerz!


oddshot

 

[doghead]

No chance your fan blade is hitting the shroud? Look over the radiator shroud for any loose pieces.

 

[drgreg]

Hey, if I knew there was going to be beer involved, I would have given my crappy opinion too.

 

[oddshot]

Perhaps it is just the trucks way of saying "Hi" to it's new owners...

YEAH!!!!

Kinda like the dog that pee's on its owner's leg!




oddshot

 

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