Fire.....well amost

[sermis]

I'm still asking questions.........and answers are fourth conning. Monday he went "FISHING"

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[sermis]

And looking at this bracket I'm guessing it wasn't supporting the back of the starter.

 

[m1010plowboy]

Both starter bolts snapped

The camera you are using is remarkable. Great photos! What are you taking pictures with?

Is that a mating surface for the starter? Looks like it wasn't touching. My son ran my 1010 lots so we also experienced our adventures together too, we both learned a lot.

We broke one starter bolt on my 6.5 due to a too fast strong, too slow smart moment. One of the mechanics I'm lucky to know, center punched the broken bolt, drilled a hole in it and used an easy-out to remove the bolt. He made the repair seem easy and you're up against a lot more than that so really hope this goes well for you.

Our problems were caused by not using new bolts, possibly over torquing and stretching the bolts, then not laying underneath enough with torque wrenches to be sure things are tight.

Best of luck getting things repaired.

 

[doghead]

I think you found the original problem.

 

[sermis]

Samsung Galaxy S6.

 

[TOBASH]

I think there is a bigger problem here. I think your starter was grounding your entire engine. That means you need to install ground cables to the engine from the frame.

 

[doghead]

Why would you think that, you can see the battery cable/stud and terminal where it arced and what looks like brake lines near it.

If the terminal touched those lines, they are mounted in rubber covered hold-downs . The power would flow through the steel brake lines to the end where they are grounded via rigid mounting to terminate to rubber lines.

 

[sermis]

24V going to things out shouldn't be going to.
As long as it didn't arc all the way to calipers and master I'll be a little more happy.
I need all the hard lines if someone knows a source.

Guess I'll tackle drilling the studs for ease out tomorrow.....someone want to come do it for me?

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[infidel got me]

If the starter doesn't have the rear bracket/ear to hold it up by the engine mount, good luck trying to replace the starter. Not only is it heavy as h@@@ its in a bad spot.

 

[TOBASH]

Why would you think that, you can see the battery cable/stud and terminal where it arced and what looks like brake lines near it.

If the terminal touched those lines, they are mounted in rubber covered hold-downs . The power would flow through the steel brake lines to the end where they are grounded via rigid mounting to terminate to rubber lines.

Because you are making an assumption. There is no guarantee that the arcing you are seeing caused the meltdown, although it looks possible. Adding grounding straps is low cost and effective. That being said, you could easily be correct, but adding grounding straps does not hurt or interfere with fixing the starter.

Finally, if you are wrong, somehow the alternator overwhelmed the system.

MHO, your mileage may vary,

T

 

[TOBASH]

in a worst case scenario, buying and bending stainless steel lines and flaring the tips with a tool is not overly complicated. just remember that stainless steel lines just require a single flare. It is also at a different angle than copper or other lines that get a double flare.

Best,

T

PS–People are always talking about the big miracle. I think small miracles like your son getting out of the car intact and the car not burning to pieces is a great miracle and I am happy for you guys.

 

[sermis]

Well I've never had an issue with the truck. The starter falls off and arcs and the brake lines are toast. I noticed that the long line from front to rear has black soot all the way down the brake line and where the mounting clips are there is a hint of fluid leaking.
Now I need to look farther but I don't see a brake line on the passenger frame rail but didn't really look yet. However that is a lot of voltage that had to do somewhere. With my luck it decided to use the brake lines.
I'll look tomorrow and see if I can find where the voltage arc occurred. Yes grounding straps would help in general. I had done it on my other truck that I sold. If I'm right everything is grounded already from the factory but over the years the connections become corroded and weak and allow voltage spikes which will kill the control boxes. Either way I will be grounding while putting it back together but in this case I don't think it really was the failure cause. It was a 19yoa with is buddy's having fun and whomever put the starter in not using the rear support lug.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Yes, The starter fell down and shorted out on the brake line. The brake lines end in solid metal no matter they are supported elsewhere through rubber. That is why they 'burnt the length that they did. You must get a support for the rear of the starter motor. Or fabricate one. Remove the brake lines you want to replace, and simply go to an auto factors that make up pipes, They will do a competent and safe job while you wait. I go Kunifer (or similar/equivalent) personally.
If the 'Short' ended at the callipers, (which are capable(and do run at extreme temperatures bordering on red heat!)) It is not likely any damage was caused, they are of thick and substantial metal. Same goes for the master cylinder.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

This is not as uncommon as you think folks...seen this before, starters falling off, arcing etc...had a report that one melted a hole in the oil pan, lost all the oils and almost seized the motor. That rear support bracket in your pic is the old type.
Too many lazy ass mechanics who replace the starter don't put the nut back on the stud, or don't install the stud at all.
The new bracket is hooked, it makes installing the starter so much easier... it that bracket is a must.
Also...checking your starter bolts is a must as part of routine maint....just like halfshaft bolts.

 

[doghead]

A full inspection of the electronics may be needed as well.

The cable attached to the stud that arced has just performed outside its designed load.

And we all know what these alts do when fully loaded, possible regulator failure.

Not sure what other sensitive electronics are on the hmmwv.

 

[Bulldogger]

Glad that there was only damage to vehicles and not son. Lucky to make it home on those brakes!

Looks repairable, and now we're all going to crawl under our HMMWVs and check our started bolts now.

Oh, and I would think he'd know by 19 but you might tell your son "Fishing" is where you sit on the bank or a boat and throw lines in the water with bait using a pole or some such, it doesn't mean you drive into the water and grab them...

Bulldogger

 

[sermis]

Well I did see a fishing pole in the HMMWV. Maybe he was trolling......

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[Barrman]

Dang Steve. I'm glad he made it home without something on the side of the road happening.

I know it is going to hurt, but try welding a nut to what is left of the starter bolts. Say, 1/2" inside nut with just a tack on the inside to the bolt end. They won't have much tension on them, so once they start turning, they probably will just come right out.

My next option is some kind of small cut off wheel to cut a slot for a screw driver blade to fit the bolt ends.

Drilling to me is way down the list of options since going off course just a bit gets into the block.

 

[sermis]

My luck both bolts are broken off inside the hole. I thought a about welding a nut bit there is a lot of hole there.

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[Jbulach]

...just remember that stainless steel lines just require a single flare. It is also at a different angle than copper or other lines that get a double flare...

Can you explain this further?

Are you saying when going to stainless, you only use a single flare and change the flare angle as well? Why and how is this possible?

I have no experience with stainless, I've always used plain steel tube and double flares...