Flex fuel in a multi-Fuel...?

[islandguydon]

As read in the TM for a multi-fuel and all the fuels acceptable for the engine there was no mention of alcohol/ flex fuel as an approved fuel. I had a mishap a few months ago with a 6.2 and flex-fuel. I drained that out and there has been no problems since. The Flex-fuel around here is $1.28 cheaper than diesel and would like to use it if it is acceptable.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[gimpyrobb]

I'm not sure what "flex fuel" is, but if its closer to gas than diesel, I wouldn't run it by itself. You want oil in there to lube the IP and stuff.

 

[islandguydon]

Thanks Gimp,

It is 80% alcohol, I always add motor oil anyways so the lubricating properties should be there. Just thought I would throw it out there..

 

[dittle]

If I remember correctly per the TM gas is to not be used as a daily fuel source even though it is a multi-fuel. Gas was supposed to be an option if regular diesel wasn't available. You are supposed to keep it blended due to no lubrication in gas like Gimp pointed out. Also remember that E85 (not called flex fuel) burns hotter than normal gasoline due but that it gets less power than standard gas. Don't know how the rings would like burning it, but you would want to blend the heck out of it as it would be very very dry with the higher alcohol content.

 

[swbradley1]

I might use E85 (85% Ethanol) with Diesel or WMO but I sure would not run it alone.

I too add up to a gallon of new motor oil every time I fill up the Deuce.

 

[patracy]

Bad idea, Alcohol is hygroscopic. Water isn't a friend of diesel injection systems.

 

[SCSG-G4]

Don,

You have some rubber seals, hoses and O rings in the system. Make sure they are compatible with the alcohol. And remember the flex fuel does not have anywhere the power per cc (quart, gallon or any other liquid measure) as diesel.

 

[dozer1]

I am one of the few guys on here that doesn't blame ethanol instantly for everything that ever went wrong with anything. I like to try and get to the root of problems and not just fingerpoint at something because it is convenient. Still, I would avoid it in a deuce if for no other reason it has a high octane level comparable to AV gas. Biodiesel would be much more compatible with a deuce it would seem. As mentioned in another thread by a poster, biodiesel tends to clean the fuel system. It is a solvent. That is a mixed blessing. It can break down deposits in your tank that otherwise would have just sat there forever. This crap will then plug your fuel filters. Expect to plug a few before it is all out of the system. Then you have a nice clean fuel system. As mentioned before, it will gel up easier too. Up here in the northland, I would avoid it in the coldest months if possible, or see if some additive is out there to prevent that....good luck

 

[hklvette]

E85 will probably not work in a deuce in any appreciable quantity. Its effective octane is so high (100+) that its doubtful that it would reliably ignite in the chamber. The high octane is why people with turbo-powered cars can tune for it and make more power than on 93 octane.

As was already mentioned, the alcohol will probably do some pretty bad things to the remainder of the fuel system as well.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I got a tank of E85 way back when with my first M35. They had just started offering it in town and it was cheap.

Even mixed with lots of WMO, it ran like crap. NO power, smoked, and might have been coincidence, but shortly there after I had two fuel lines start leaking bad.

 

[Stalwart]

Even mixed with lots of WMO, it ran like crap. NO power, smoked, and might have been coincidence, but shortly there after I had two fuel lines start leaking bad.

It was no coincidence, the E85 is NOT good for any lines that have anything other than metal to metal sealing surfaces that were manufactured in the past. This is especially true of a 40 year old Diesel, they are marginally happy with ULSD. E85 will toast seals in modern vehicles not made for it, just try it in your car. Actually, ya' better not.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I was giving Dozer1 some slack when I say coincidence. I believe it was to blame as well.

 

[73m819]

the way I understand it, the E85 holds water, this in turn corrodes the lines, when ethanol first came out, it was so bad that pipe line companies refused to pump it in there pipe lines, the newer pipeline have a coating that resists this corrosion

 

[Keith_J]

E85 has an anti-knock index (octane rating) that is far too high. This is why aviation gasoline is not allowed, the high anti-knock RESISTS compression ignition, meaning the ignition delay will drastically reduce power.

Furthermore, alcohol is hydraulically "hard", this is why glycols are used in brake fluid. That property is hard on the pintles in the injectors and hard on the rest of the system.

The water issue is also a problem. Never use alcohol in any diesel engine fuel.

 

[dozer1]

It was no coincidence, the E85 is NOT good for any lines that have anything other than metal to metal sealing surfaces that were manufactured in the past. This is especially true of a 40 year old Diesel, they are marginally happy with ULSD. E85 will toast seals in modern vehicles not made for it, just try it in your car. Actually, ya' better not.

With respect, I just did an advanced search for the 2 keywords "fuel leak" in thread titles only. I came up with 57 threads talking about fuel leaks in cucv's, deuces, 5 tons, and most other MV's that get talked about on here. I didn't read them all, but the ones I read said nothing about ethanol use. Looks like alot of the leaks were because these are old trucks and old trucks develop leaks. How can you be so sure that the forementioned leak was no coincidence. Did you go and help with the repair and determine this from the evidence from the failed parts? If so, I would agree with you that it was the fault of ethanol.

I would like to say again that I do not recommend E-85 for a deuce. Wrong fuel for it.

 

[JasonS]

I've got a paper at home that specifically addresses the use of alcohol in the multifuel. The take away is that it isn't recommended. I'll post a copy of the paper when I get home.

I've had ZERO issues with 10% alcohol in 1940s to 2000s gasoline vehicles.

 

[islandguydon]

Fuel mixing

Don,

You have some rubber seals, hoses and O rings in the system. Make sure they are compatible with the alcohol. And remember the flex fuel does not have anywhere the power per cc (quart, gallon or any other liquid measure) as diesel.

Hey MKT Mike, I am amazed at all the new fuel sources coming to my local pumps. I agree with you and would not run 100% E-85. Just concerned if it would hurt the engine. I keep reading the nomenclature plate which states a list of fuels and no problem mixing any of them including gasoline. Which I would not do and if I did only in an emergency. Just thought I would throw it out there.

 

[patracy]

While gasoline is on the plates, it's also recommended in the TM's that when using gasoline to add fresh motor oil along with the gasoline to bring up the lubricity to the fuel. But E-85 has so much moisture in it, I wouldn't run it.

 

[JasonS]

Accession Number : ADA112010
Title : Impact of Gasohol on the L-141 and LDT-465-1C Engines.

Descriptive Note : Interim rept. Oct 80-Sep 81,​

Corporate Author : SOUTHWEST RESEARCH INST SAN ANTONIO TX ARMY FUELS AND LUBRICANTS RESEARCH LAB
Personal Author(s) : Likos,W. E. ; Yost,D. M.

Report Date : DEC 1981
Pagination or Media Count : 110
Abstract : Gasohol was analyzed in the L-141 and LDT-465-1C engines in order to determine its impact upon engine operability. During various steady-state operating conditions, with the L-141 engine, gasohol was found to improve economy under heavily loaded conditions, while a deterioration will occur during light and intermediate loading. An evaluation of emission and nonemission-regulated carburetors shows the nonemissions carburetor better suited for gasohol use. No effects on maximum power produced were noted with gasohol. Simulated driveability tests with the L-141 engine on a dynamometer showed differences in engine response between the different fuels, but actual vehicle tests proved that driveability was not altered. A relatively short endurance test with the L-141 engine on gasohol fuel indicates, based on engine oil analysis, no significant change in engine wear rates. The endurance test did indicate, however, that more frequent oil drain intervals may be required due to TBN depletion of the engine oil. Cold start testing of the LDT-465-1C engine indicates that gasohol is of inadequate cetane number to sustain normal engine operation. Thus, it is recommended that gasohol not be used in the LDT-465 family of engines. (Author)
Descriptors : *Fuels, *Engines, Ethanols, Gasoline, Blending, Fuel consumption, Energy conservation, Carburetors, Performance(Engineering), Dynamometers, Endurance(General), Test methods, Wear, Lubricating oils, Starting, Cetane number, Efficiency, Trucks​

Subject Categories : SURFACE TRANSPORTATION AND EQUIPMENT
FUELS

Distribution Statement : APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE​

 

[A/C Cages]

You wont catch me using E85 in anything I own.