Florida off road only

[infidel got me]

I just read a new article on my Flmvpa.MVPA members, The Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles has formally responded to questions and concerns regarding Technical Advisory RS/TL16-022. Their responses are copied below in red. In summary, an MV owner may still title and register an MV with a normal title and normal tag/registration paying an annual recurring renewal fee without the parade, exhibition, public display restriction. If the MV owner wants the "Former Military Vehicle" tag without an annual renewal fee, then the title would be "branded as a "Former Military Vehicle", require a DMV inspection, and would have the parade, exhibition, public display restriction. The most effected by the new directive would be Humvee owners with federal government Form 97's with "For Off Road Use Only" restrictions. Those owners would only have the option of receiving a branded "Former Military Vehicle" title and be restricted to parade, exhibition or public display. The DMV indicated they would be researching Humvee registrations to recall and correct any vehicles improperly issued a title/tag which had a Form 97 "Off Road Use Only." Hope this information is helpful. Thank you, Kevin Kevin Vislocky 850-510-8651
vislocky@att.net
Mr. Vislocky,
DMV Technical Advisory RS/TL16-022 was issued primarily to address former military vehicles designated as “off road only” and the method/requirements for those specific vehicles to obtain a former military vehicle plate. As demonstrated in the responses to your questions below the procedural changes made should have little impact on other former military vehicles. Please feel free to contact me if any additional questions arise.
1. Is it mandatory that all former military vehicles be "branded" on the Florida vehicle title as a "Former Military Vehicle"?
No, as long as the vehicle is legal to be operated on public roads the brand is not required. However, the brand is required for issuance of the “Former Military Vehicle” plate.
2. Is it mandatory that a former military vehicle receive a "Former Military Vehicle" tag or may the owner request a standard annual renewal tag without the parade, exhibition, public display, etc. restrictions?
If the former military vehicle has been designated as “off road use only” it can only be issued a
Former Military Vehicle plate which restricts it’s use to parade, exhibition, or public display. If
the former military vehicle is not designated as “off road use only” it can be issued any plate
which is allowed for that vehicle.
3. Will vehicles titled and registered previously with a standard title and standard annual renewal
tag registration (non-antique) be "grandfathered" in to maintain that status or will they be
required to be re-titled as "branded" and mandated to obtain a "Former Military Vehicle" tag?
If a review by the department reveals the original documentation submitted to obtain the title was
designated as “off road use only” the current title and registration will be recalled and a new title
with the brand “Former Military Vehicle – Restricted Use” will be issued at no fee. If the
vehicle meets the requirement for a license plate the Former Military plate will be issued.
4. Being that the Directive mandates a DMV regional office inspection of the vehicle prior to
title and registration, will it be necessary for vehicle owners to tow or trailer their vehicles to a
DMS Regional Office, possibly many miles from their residence location, to be inspected or will
a DMV agent be made available to travel to the location of the vehicle for inspection?
The vehicle will be inspected at the DMS Regional Office. Inspections at locations other than the
regional office are at the discretion of the Regional Administrator based on workload and staff
availability.
5. What inspection guidelines will be available for the vehicle owner to determine if the former
military vehicle has been maintained with its original military design and markings? This is an
area of concern in that there are no consistent marking standards among military vehicles based
upon year of service, theater of service or branch of service. This leaves the vehicle inspection
open to potential arbitrary opinion without factual standards or guidance for the vehicle owner.
The Compliance Examiner will be looking for upgrades to the vehicle that would not have been a
part of the original design. Examples are: Wheels, steering wheel, radios, new seats, tail pipes,
those items that are easy to recognize as not part of the original vehicle. Vehicles painted colors
that are not recognized as those commonly used by the military, reds, yellow, blues,
etc. Wording or signage added to the vehicle not representative of military markings.
6. Regarding vehicle markings, may the owner of the former military vehicle utilize a "wrap" on
the vehicle if it is consistent with a military theme? Please see the attached pictures as an
example.
No, a wrap by its nature is not permanent and not in standard military use.
7. Will the owner of a former military vehicle which has a "branded" title and former military
vehicle registration and tag be in violation of the law if the vehicle is driven for purposes other
than parade, exhibition, public display, i.e. driven on the roadway to be refueled, driven on the
roadway to a maintenance facility or driven on the roadway for purposes of traveling to a parade,
exhibition, public display, type event.
The use is restricted to parade, exhibition, or public display, if the vehicle is used for purposes other than those specified, it would be the responsibility of law enforcement to determine if a violation is/was occurring.
8. May an owner of a former military vehicle with a "branded" title and former military vehicle registration/tag use this vehicle in exigent circumstances to assist local government in response to a natural or man-made disaster situations or would they be in violation of parade, exhibition, public display, etc. restrictions? Many former military vehicles have unique capabilities for transportation of people, cargo, etc. and capabilities of operating in high waters or over rough terrain. Owners of these vehicles often offer assistance with these vehicles to local government.
That determination is left to local law enforcement.
Palmer Brand, CPM
Program Manager, Bureau of Dealer Services
Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
(850)617-3171
On 9/28/2016 8:13 PM, Kevin Vislocky wrote:
MVPA (Florida) Members, To bring everyone up to date, I made the trip to the DMV Regional Office in Tallahassee with my current title, insurance card, etc. and requested a tag and registration for the Gama Goat. After additional discussion regarding the new directive, I was advised that an agent would have to first inspect the vehicle. Note - a law enforcement officer had already inspected the vehicle to verify the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) needed for obtaining the title. I requested an agent come to me rather than trailer the Gama Goat to the Regional Office. The DMV sent an agent the following week out to my residence to inspect the Gama Goat. The agent viewed the Gama Goat and took pictures of the interior and exterior of the vehicle to include the data plates. The agent advised that the DMV was still trying to work out the details of how the new directive would be applied. The agent advised that her office would be back in touch with me. I supplied the agent with several questions that needed to be answered to include (1) - Would previously titled/registered military vehicles be "grandfathered" in or would the titles/registrations be rescinded or modified? (2) Under the new directive, can an owner of a vehicle drive the vehicle for purposes of maintenance, getting fuel, run an errand, etc. or would they be in violation of the new directive subject to a fine or citation?, (3) What constitutes original military markings and how would the DMV verify the markings were accurate or correct? (4) Would a vehicle that had been repainted and non-military service markings applied, be ineligible for registration? (The reason I asked this question is I have an M725 ambulance which has a "skin" of the Iwa Jima flag raising on one side of the ambulance and a "skin" of
Marines in dress uniform on the other side, see attached pictures. Note - the vehicle will receive new paint and removal of the prior owners commercial markings) (5) How would previously titled/registered Humvees be treated in light of the new "Off Road Use Only" restriction? The agent promised these questions would be answered in writing. I also supplied the agent with copies of all the title, ownership, insurance, etc. paperwork for the Gama Goat. Today, I was invited to come to the DMV Regional Office as they had "processed" my registration request. Upon arrival, I was provided with a new revised title which is now branded as "Former Military", a Florida Vehicle Registration with no expiration date (which means it does not need to be renewed annually and no additional fees), and a license tag marked as "Former Military Vehicle, Restricted Use Only". I was charged $43.30 for this. I was not charged for the revised title since I had already paid for the original title. It was emphasized again that the vehicle was restricted to use in exhibitions, parades or public display only. The agent advised that my questions were still being addressed and that after a final review, a written response would be sent to me. So at this point, the Gama Goat is now legal for use in exhibitions, parades and public display but for no other purpose. When I receive the written response from DMV regarding my questions, I will share this with the membership. Thank you, Kevin Kevin Vislocky 850-510-8651
vislocky@att.net
On 9/9/2016 9:18 PM, Kevin Vislocky wrote:
MVPA (Florida) members, Today I went to my local tag office in Quincy, Florida to register and obtain a license tag for a newly acquired M561 Gama Goat. I had the Florida title in hand. I was greeted first with a great deal of confusion by the clerk as to how to "register" a prior military vehicle using the "Antique" plate provisions. A supervisor was summoned and after additional discussion, the supervisor left the room and came back with a "Technical Advisory" which was issued on August 26. I have attached a copy of the document. The short story is this directive document apparently came about due to the Humvee's currently being released by the government with restricted Form 97's "For Off Road Use Only". Apparently some folks out there have attempted to register the M998 Humvees for street use circumventing the Form 97 restriction. The Division of Motorist Services has apparently taken steps to restrict the Humvees from obtaining registrations/tags. However, in the process it appears they have broadened the sweep
of this directive to include all former military vehicles. They are placing restrictions that the vehicles can only be used for exhibitions, parades or public display. The supervisor was unable to advise if this new directive would impact former military vehicles previously registered/tagged prior to this directive. In any case, I was not able to obtain a registration/tag for the Gama Goat and was directed to go to the main Regional office in Tallahassee, which is apparently the only office in our region now authorized to grant former military vehicles a title/registration/tag. Also, there appears to be a mandatory inspection of the vehicle required to confirm the vehicle is still in military configuration. I will hopefully find out more on Monday when I go to the Regional Office. I am not an attorney, but this new directive appears as if it will have a significant impact on our hobby and how the vehicles may be used. It would appear that an individual would be restricted to using the former military vehicle strictly for exhibition purposes. I don't know how the use of the vehicle driving it for an oil change, or maintenance, or for an errand will be considered. Hopefully, current registered and tagged vehicles will be grandfathered in as exempt by this new directive. I hope this information will spark questions directed from our MVPA officers to the DMV folks as to how this directive will affect us and if we have any recourse or options if this truly impacts our use of the vehicles. Thank you, Kevin Kevin Vislocky 850-510-8651

 

[Flyingvan911]

That seems fair enough.

 

[infidel got me]

Works for me--

 

[Coffey1]

If you drive it to hardware store and park in parking lot, you are exhibiting said vehicle.

 

[Recovry4x4]

If you drive it to hardware store and park in parking lot, you are exhibiting said vehicle.

Don't forget your easel with sign and all your trophys. Seriously, if the HMMWV becomes the target of LEOs, they may make you prove your intentions in court. What's the old saying, "You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride". That's figuratively speaking of course.

 

[Another Ahab]

If you drive it to hardware store and park in parking lot, you are exhibiting said vehicle.

Makes sense then that a tarp thrown over it, renders it no longer exhibited.

You can hear the lawyers arguing it before the judge:

- "Your Honor, if it pleases the Court....."

 

[ryanruck]

Don't forget your easel with sign and all your trophys. Seriously, if the HMMWV becomes the target of LEOs, they may make you prove your intentions in court. What's the old saying, "You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride". That's figuratively speaking of course.

Good thing the Founders were smart enough to establish that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing, putting the burden of proof on the state and not the defendant! I'm sure even a Saul Goodman quality lawyer could successfully defend against such a charge if it came down to it.

Knowing several law enforcement officers, and even being related to one, most have a lot better things to do. Not to say there aren't any Barney Fifes or Judge Dredds out there chomping at the bit to stick it to MV owners but, for the most part, most LEOs would rather not waste their time enforcing stupid laws and probably think MVs are pretty cool! The key to avoiding problems is the same with most things in life, just don't be an idiot.

 

[frank8003]

If I had the three dollars to the sixty thousand bucks to spend then I would have me one of them.
At least it would not be a fixed fortification.

Still, I would need the Deuce, the Roadmaster, and the 9c1 to feed her. That is until the storm then I would have only two good vehicles, the Deuce and the slant.

So,
This is not an ongoing auction and "govplan" its all over the place so I should be allowed to post pictures of dreams, like this .................plan b

http://www.planbsupply.com/hummers-h1-humvees-hmmwv-for-sale

So far I have not thought of anything to leave to the Son,
Oh heck, He will want the slant back, doors, every option, the Ma Deuce, and the winch!
Mo money, Please.

..............and all I ever wanted was a halftrack, a hound dog, a Skyraider, and a jeep. Times change

 

[Another Ahab]

..............and all I ever wanted was a halftrack, a hound dog, a Skyraider, and a jeep. Times change

That's an excellent combination, frank8003.


How were you going to handle the airfield for the Skyraider?!


Say, we're not drifting here any, are we?

 

[frank8003]

As per the skyraider, I'll protect that with the halftrack and the
jeep and the hound dog. I will build a place to keep it all.
I can fly and drive but have no monies.
I was asked when 15 what I wanted and that is what I wanted,
They said I would be OK when I stopped dreaming....... (bs)

I had lots of money but spent it all on water, food,
shelter, clothes, and woman.
Like, "She's so fine there's no tellin where the money went".
If somebody would Please buy me a Skyraider I will take care of it.
So far I got her and a Deuce, but I still can dream.

and We are not drifting off key. The entire inside of a Skyraider is Green.
The HUMMWV could be tan or green or camo but its' heart is green.

 

[Another Ahab]

I had lots of money but spent it all on water, food,
shelter, clothes, and woman.
Like, "She's so fine there's no tellin where the money went".
If somebody would Please buy me a Skyraider I will take care of it.
So far I got her and a Deuce, but I still can dream.

I can't explain it, frank8003, but reading your post and all of a sudden:

- I got thirsty.


https://youtu.be/N66QvM4idfc

 

[Recovry4x4]

Good thing the Founders were smart enough to establish that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing, putting the burden of proof on the state and not the defendant!

This is exactly the reason I mentioned beating the rap, not the ride. Sure, you will likely prevail in the courtroom but for many, missing a day of work for the arraignment and a day for trial adds up to much suck.

I also agree there are better things for the Police to do but if it becomes a directive for whatever reason, they will do what is required.

 

[infidel got me]

Most of the LEO's around here are cool guys-- I've talked to a few of them. I don't drive like an idiot and try not to draw attention to myself. As mentioned, they have more pressing issues than pulling me over..... If I were to get hassled, I'm on my way to an event in Texas or Kansas or Miami.....

 

[Another Ahab]

Most of the LEO's around here are cool guys-- I've talked to a few of them. I don't drive like an idiot and try not to draw attention to myself. As mentioned, they have more pressing issues than pulling me over..... If I were to get hassled, I'm on my way to an event in Texas or Kansas or Miami.....

That should work, brilliant.

So, i'm guessing that, in-state, nobody is particularly fond of Miami. Anything to that?

 

[infidel got me]

Born there--- family left to middle Florida when I was 5 yrs. old. Don't care to go back really, don't speak the language.....

 

[98G]

They'll have it both ways.


Walking my cat on a leash is legally defined as "public display".

Following that logic, driving the vehicle in public should also constitute public display.

Anything else is inconsistent.

My best guess says they'll be inconsistent, in order to have it be public display when it benefits enforcement/fees, and not be public display when that benefits enforcement/fees.

 

[Recovry4x4]

In my honest opinion, unless something comes down the pipeline from the admin, you will never be hassled. Not drawing attention to yourself is always key. Just because you can legally cruise down the road with your gas fired ma deuce on the ring, doesn't mean you should.

Every one of my traffic stops were for me not running a license plate. Was never a problem but it's time spent explaining myself. Anymore, I just display the tag. The FF MVPA guys that pushed that law through were quite clever in the wording. Public display really can be anything.

 

[Sintorion]

Most of the LEO's around here are cool guys-- I've talked to a few of them. I don't drive like an idiot and try not to draw attention to myself. As mentioned, they have more pressing issues than pulling me over..... If I were to get hassled, I'm on my way to an event in Texas or Kansas or Miami.....

I have talked to a few LEOs around NF about this tag and everyone of them said "what tag?". None of them knew about this and pretty much said if you are not driving like an idiot, there is no reason to worry. Undoubtedly someone will get one with these tags, paint it canary yellow with a loud stereo and get pulled over and ruin it for all. It is only a matter of time before it goes to court to define "public display". Until then I will drive mine as I choose.

 

[fllaw1]

Unless your a suspect in a crime, or the vehicle is involved in a crime. As long as the tag is valid and placed on the rear of the vehicle, they wont really care whether its status is display or not. You guys are reading too far into this. Half my guys couldn't even tell you what military display is. They are such a rarity on the road by private ownwers. Dont draw attention to yourself, put your tag on properly in your given state, make sure it has a light above for night, and your mirrors are proper. Really dont have to worry about you speeding..LOL

 

[Coffey1]

Here in SC we don't have to display tag.
Besides the Leo think they're all active duty.
I've not run tags on any of my trucks.
I put in cab and forget about it.
Insurance is the biggie don't ever go without it.