FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[Skidpad]

Peakbagger, I ran across that post on the other forum too and have most of them collected as well. I wonder if there would be a way to make a TOC for the whole PDF so it could take you immediately to the page for the issue? If you want any help with this helpful little project (and the moderator approves it) let me know. Maybe this could be posted where all the other TMs are located? If you already said that, just write it off to me being thick-skulled.

So, on the subject of Group31 batteries, what is their primary benefit over the mil-issue 6TMFs? I was able to find some from a vendor in California that were not much more than the commercially available ones like Optimas. Please enlighten the noob here to the differences (even though the batteries get here on Monday).

 

[The FLU farm]

Seriously, I'm thinking you're onto the welding it at the corners. My only problem is that the way I have my brackets designed I'll definitely need a few more inches to make the plate work. My only concern is making sure that I don't mess up the fitment for any of the quick-attach parts.

So, here's my question for the evening. I finally drove the SEE the few miles from my buddy's house where it's been living and up onto the hill that's soon to be all mine. Other than needing to get better at figuring out which gear and range to select for any given slope (did I mentioned it's a lot of hills?). Is it pretty normal for something this heavy to feel, well, bouncy when going over ditches and rough terrain? I was going slow so I had no issues but it tended to wander just the slightest bit around 30 mph and when I was in low gear headed up the unimproved road to the site it tends to sort of bounce some. I've driven hummers, deuces, 5-tons, but I don't think I've ever driven something so big with springs as the primary suspension.

One reason I picked that particular adapter was that it eliminates any potential issues since the plate end is set. At 44 inches, if memory serves me. Also, the loader end is really close to the unusually wide one we have to work with. And, with that crossbar already in place, it saves a lot of measuring time.
Got my plate, a 3/8" with the cut-out, yesterday. Once the brackets are off the bucket, it can be welded on and the loader will become functional again.
The bucket will end up six or seven inches farther forward, but that might be helpful since it'll be easier to see it.

So your SEE rides like mine, it sounds like. My description is that it's like three Sixties Buicks welded on top of each other, and none of them have shocks.
Anybody with even a minor tendency towards seasickness would puke in a minute. And that's at 2 mph on the driveway. On the road it's not bad.
The HMMH is a lot better, which I contributed to less weight. But then the parts SEE arrived, and it is a lot better, too.
Tired shocks, I suppose, and that'll be looked into when I get a chance to work on the hydraulic lockout setup.
For now, take advantage of the nauseating ride by offering wimmin a ride, then pounce while they're vulnerable.

 

[peakbagger]

I have all the PDFs extracted of everything I could find. I have them stored with the file names describing the subject. I was going to copy and paste the directory and put it on the front page along with an acknowledgement to CHOPRBOY. There may be a way of putting hot links into the PDF file from the index to the actual page but no guarantees. There are 30 or 40 of them and I expect most folks will just look at all of them. I have left some near duplicates out. I know I am missing at least one as I ran into one in the past regarding the upgrade for the air line from the regulator across the body to the air tank (switch to stainless as it rots out on the inside and puts rust in the air system). Once the mod gives me the heads up I can post what I have got and go from there. Hopefully if the electrical diagram is found we can get that one loaded up to. One of the issues with extracting from the PM magazine archives is that some of the issue are encrypted PDFs, they cant be extracted and wont even print to pdf. In that case I had to print the page and scan them. It lost color and some resolution but compared to downloading the entire file it takes up a lot less space.

Group 31 is the battery case size. DIMENSIONS IN INCHES*: 12.9" 6.75" 9.27"
I am not familiar with the military batteries, when I look them up they appear to be flooded lead acid batteries. The battery type of construction is important. Good old car type battery's are flooded lead acid (wet cells). They needed watering (remember battery caps?). They are cheap and easy to recycle but really don't like vibration and operating at an angle. Not good traits for a SEE. Even though they may be called maintenance free, they still can loose electrolyte if abused. The step up technology is Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries they don't have liquid sloshing around inside of them and are effectively sealed (there usually are blow out vents in the case but they only function when the battery is being abused or has an internal fault). AGMS are broken into VRLA and Gel cells. Both are sealed but the Gel cells have the liquid absorbed in mats, they are usually regarded as the most vibration proof and most off roaders use them. Optimas are spiral would AGMs .

Optimas or similar batteries are made by the hundreds of thousands so they should cost less compared to mill spec battery but I haven't priced the difference. The one downside with AGMS is they don't like overcharging. Its not an issue with a standard alternator in a SEE but trying to fast charge an AGM will ruin it while a FLA will survive if you feed it some fresh distilled water. Any starting battery has significant trade off compared to deep cycle battery marine type battery. In order to get high cranking amps, they make the internal lead plates thin this give more power but excessively discharging the battery (running it flat) especially under high loads like running the starter for too long takes months if not years off the battery. Deep Cell batteries have thicker plates to withstand deep discharge but the tradeoff is lower cranking amps so poorer starter performance especially in cold weather.

In theory with these low mile SEEs, they should start right up if all the filters are clean. Do note there is "sock" over the fuel pickup in the tank and some folks have found crap built up in the tank that I expect is on the sock even if the tank has been flushed and drained. The plastic fuel lines in the fuel system are definitely a mixed blessing, they don't rust but they have a known issue that as they age they loose sealing on the fittings when under vacuum. The SEEs tank is lower than the fuel pump so it has to pull a vacuum. When sitting for long periods the fuel lines can leak down back to the tank and once the mechanical fuel pump is dry it may not be able to pull the fuel back up unless its primed especially if the suction lines are leaking. Once the fuel system is primed properly the engine should start in just a few cranks. I expect many folks just run the starter and hope. One of my early challenges was to figure out why mine didn't like to start and after some experimenting with a temporary gravity fuel tank, I ended up replacing the majority of the hoses with fuel rated rubber hose and putting rubber sleeves over the remaining plastic lines and using a hose clamp to snug them tight. The fix held all last year but I did need to prime the truck after sitting all winter in the snow this spring. One other note is the stock fuel primer pump is crap. If you buy the EI filter kit they include a new style primer pump or will sell it separately. It works real well and I highly recommend swapping it before you need it.

 

[The FLU farm]

So, on the subject of Group31 batteries, what is their primary benefit over the mil-issue 6TMFs? I was able to find some from a vendor in California that were not much more than the commercially available ones like Optimas. Please enlighten the noob here to the differences (even though the batteries get here on Monday).

My reasons for the 31s isn't that they're 31s, per se, but that these are sealed. Stupidly counted a while back, and when having 57 batteries to take care of, every one which doesn't need babysitting (add water, frequent charging, etc.) is a blessing.
Yes, I have some regular wet batteries that are quite old, kept happy by desulfation and cuddling in general, but the four Group 31s in the Pete, and the four Gruop 27s in its trailer, have received very little attention since they were installed in '98. Other than desulfation (check out Canadus) when they're being charged.

Also important to me is that when I roll the SEE, there will be one less mess to deal with.

Peakbagger, the height isn't an issue in my case. I removed the sliding tray. Since there's no reason to get to these batteries, the slider isn't needed.
It freed up space horizontally, too, and will make it easier to create a stout tie-down setup. I hope.

 

[Skidpad]

Peakbagger, this is so informative easy to understand. I really appreciate it. I think that these large mil batteries are probably FLA. However, the good news is that they fit exactly and I can use the clamp down plate as-is. Update will follow after a few months of use.

I actually just received my EI filter kit yesterday so I will be replacing the primer pump soon. Fingers crossed that I got lucky because the first night this thing was on the trailer it started at the first push.

In regards to the PDF, it sounds like you have everything well in-hand. There is a way to make a PDF have links to other pages if you think it'd be worth the effort. I'll keep my eyes out for that PM about the airline.

SF

 

[The FLU farm]

So, on the subject of Group31 batteries, what is their primary benefit over the mil-issue 6TMFs? I was able to find some from a vendor in California that were not much more than the commercially available ones like Optimas. Please enlighten the noob here to the differences (even though the batteries get here on Monday).

I never even priced the 6TMFs, but now I'm curios. How much is "not much more"?
For a comparison, my Optimas were $223 a piece, delivered. And I thunk the wet ones would be cheaper.

 

[Skidpad]

Not any cheaper really, just sized to be able to use the stock battery holder. I found a place that had them delivered for $490 for the two. If 2 guys get together and buy 4 batteries, the cost drops to $237 each. The next break isn't until 12 batteries and that's at $203 ea. So, maybe not really any more economical. I'd too much of a nerd for wanting this to be back to 'original issue'. Even to the point that I'm not cutting the ears off my bucket for the quick attach but instead I'm fabricating duplicate brackets that will fit to the plate that I'll weld to the QA adapter. BTW, Titan has a 10% off sale this weekend for their whole online store...

If anyone wants the link to this online retailer with the batteries, I can forward the link in a PM.

 

[Bikers33]

More pics of the HMMH...

View attachment 645030

View attachment 645031

View attachment 645032

That motorhome brings back some memories..... Bill Murray in Stripes "Boom chugaluga Boom"..... does the back fold down like in the movie?? LOL

 

[The FLU farm]

BTW, Titan has a 10% off sale this weekend for their whole online store...

Figures, now that I've bought the adapter and two plates in rapid succession.

On a totally different subject, a while back somebody had a question about the e-brake not working well.
Not sure how to make it any better, but my SEE came with an official wheel chock. Which I've never used.
Then, after getting the HMMH, with an equally inefficient e-brake, suddenly it mattered.
With no bucket, out riggers, or hoe to keep it in place (I would not want to subject the crane's supports to much lateral force) it needed something. The quick solution was to buy two cheap but sturdy wheel chocks, which now stink up the tool box like any good Asian rubber product.
One day the smell may motivate me to find out how to make the e-brake work better.

 

[peakbagger]

The extracted articles from PS magazine that applies to SEEs and HMMHs (not many HMMH specific) have been uploaded to the TM upload folder. Lots of stuff of interest including various recommended alterations to the equipment to improve reliability. Heck it was worth it just to find the recommend tire pressure 40 psi on and off road (contrary to the TM).

 

[Another Ahab]

The extracted articles from PS magazine that applies to SEEs and HMMHs (not many HMMH specific) have been uploaded to the TM upload folder. Lots of stuff of interest including various recommended alterations to the equipment to improve reliability. Heck it was worth it just to find the recommend tire pressure 40 psi on and off road (contrary to the TM).

That might have been a deliberate SEE security measure to throw-off any probable hostile spying in times of conflict. I can't be sure of that but I'm sure somebody here will know.

 

[The FLU farm]

The extracted articles from PS magazine that applies to SEEs and HMMHs (not many HMMH specific) have been uploaded to the TM upload folder. Lots of stuff of interest including various recommended alterations to the equipment to improve reliability. Heck it was worth it just to find the recommend tire pressure 40 psi on and off road (contrary to the TM).

Thanks for uploading that, Peakbagger! Now I need to break a leg so I get to read it all.
Tire pressure? Why didn't you ask?

Crappy weather today, but did create room for the batteries, by removing the front "stopper". Looks easier to anchor them down when situated this way.
And don't bother with the air chisel if you do this. Very flimsy spot welds hold those "stopper brackets", so a screwdriver would likely be enough.

 

[The FLU farm]

I can't be sure of that but I'm sure somebody here will know.

I do. But I'm not allowed to tell.

 

[BigBison]

Haha no, the rear loading ramp in "Stripes" is some sort of top-secret military modification for the EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle variant, but the rear is removable on mine which will help in the refurbishing, just held on with a bunch of screws (kinda like the ladder). Once the electric system is re-done with solar panels, it'll also have two of those milspec plugs on the rear bumper -- my thinking is when not being used, the Mogs can plug into the RV to keep the batteries charged, which can also provide 24V jump-start cranking amps if needed.

I was laying in bed the other night and noticed a red glow coming from the cab of the HMMH. The battery cut-off switch has been wired around -- does nothing. The ignition switch has been hacked around to only affect the starter. Shut both off and remove the keys, everything but the starter motor's still powered. Start the HMMH and remove both keys -- it'll run until the hand throttle kills it. My SEE works as expected.

http://www.gn-espace.com/

Just a fun link. If I take the RV to Tierra del Fuego, I'd be driving through at least 9 different electrical standards, so I've been looking at marine-grade gear for the new electrical system -- most RVs stay in their country of origin, whereas boats are more international. Lotsa RV-appropriate gear like that galley, are marketed to the pleasure-boat folks so you'll never hear about it if you're just searching RV gear.

 

[BigBison]

The e-brake on my HMMH works properly. The SEE's down at Couch for the skidsteer/hydraulic mod, they're also going to fix the handbrake because there's a pawl missing, keeps it from staying set even though the mechanism otherwise works. My SEE was parked in a vacant lot for several months, chocked by a random concrete slab to keep it from rolling away backwards with the hoe up -- the loader bucket makes a nice parking brake if the danger is rolling forwards, but I didn't want to leave the hoe down all winter with the rams exposed to the weather as a parking-brake substitute.

Heck, I didn't want to have it sit unused at all, but sometimes life takes those decisions out of our hands, right?

 

[The FLU farm]

Shut both off and remove the keys, everything but the starter motor's still powered. Start the HMMH and remove both keys -- it'll run until the hand throttle kills it. My SEE works as expected.

That's how mine are, Bison. Once they're running you can remove all keys, and they'll still run until the hand throttle is returned to "off". Which may not be healthy for the alternator.
I don't think that there's any need for anything electrical to work once they're running, and if there is, the alternator will supply it.

 

[BigBison]

One of many interesting things to note in discussing batteries, which I'm definitely in the market for on both Mogs, is the original-equipment "house" battery on my GMC motorhome. This rig was always plugged into AC house current when not being used, diligent former owners kept it topped up with distilled water, so yeah it has a perfectly-good 40-year-old battery in it! The GMC has a dashboard switch which bridges the motor battery with the house battery for extra cranking amps; also of course has switches for the rear air suspension to level it in camping spots, I never realized just exactly *how* awesome these GMCs are until I got my hands on a surviving road-warrior! Olds 455 power, baby, yeah!!!

After 40 years, still best in Class A for aerodynamics, fuel efficiency, drivability etc. if you can do without slideouts & diesel pushers & extra axles (those rear wheels are on bogies, not axles, wish my pickup truck rear-ends or trailers, etc. went over speed bumps with such aplomb, rear bogies kick a**).

 

[BigBison]

That's how mine are, Bison. Once they're running you can remove all keys, and they'll still run until the hand throttle is returned to "off". Which may not be healthy for the alternator.
I don't think that there's any need for anything electrical to work once they're running, and if there is, the alternator will supply it.

Well, FLUs are diesels, trying to wrap my head around why my Dodge CTD shuts off at the ignition switch? Wish my electronics training was a little more recent, ya know?

 

[BigBison]

Tire pressure? Why didn't you ask?View attachment 645372

I wish I'd taken a close-up of the fender stenciling on my HMMH -- "ON HWY. 55 OFF HWY. 45" but my SEE has nothing stenciled on the fenders.

 

[BigBison]

That's how mine are, Bison. Once they're running you can remove all keys, and they'll still run until the hand throttle is returned to "off". Which may not be healthy for the alternator.
I don't think that there's any need for anything electrical to work once they're running, and if there is, the alternator will supply it.

Taking the keys out should still kill the dash lights, if not the motor, though, right?