FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[Bikers33]

Haha no, the rear loading ramp in "Stripes" is some sort of top-secret military modification for the EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle variant, but the rear is removable on mine which will help in the refurbishing, just held on with a bunch of screws (kinda like the ladder). Once the electric system is re-done with solar panels, it'll also have two of those milspec plugs on the rear bumper -- my thinking is when not being used, the Mogs can plug into the RV to keep the batteries charged, which can also provide 24V jump-start cranking amps if needed.

I was laying in bed the other night and noticed a red glow coming from the cab of the HMMH. The battery cut-off switch has been wired around -- does nothing. The ignition switch has been hacked around to only affect the starter. Shut both off and remove the keys, everything but the starter motor's still powered. Start the HMMH and remove both keys -- it'll run until the hand throttle kills it. My SEE works as expected.

http://www.gn-espace.com/

Just a fun link. If I take the RV to Tierra del Fuego, I'd be driving through at least 9 different electrical standards, so I've been looking at marine-grade gear for the new electrical system -- most RVs stay in their country of origin, whereas boats are more international. Lotsa RV-appropriate gear like that galley, are marketed to the pleasure-boat folks so you'll never hear about it if you're just searching RV gear.

Haha

 

[The FLU farm]

they're also going to fix the handbrake because there's a pawl missing, keeps it from staying set even though the mechanism otherwise works.

I didn't want to leave the hoe down all winter with the rams exposed to the weather as a parking-brake substitute.

My parts SEE is missing the pawl action, too. Not high on the list of things to fix, though.

Leaving the rods exposed shouldn't be a problem, unless they're already damaged in spots.
I kind of did a General Hood (no, not paint or wax) and greased the exposed parts of the rods, and especially at the seals, when I realized that the parts SEE would be sitting for a while. As it turned out, I've driven/exercised it twice in seven months. The odometer hasn't added a mile yet. Still don't think it was needed to do anything to the rods.

 

[Bikers33]

Well, FLUs are diesels, trying to wrap my head around why my Dodge CTD shuts off at the ignition switch? Wish my electronics training was a little more recent, ya know?

The FLU does not have the shut off solenoid like your Dodge does. FLU is mechanical but does the same thing, shuts off the fuel at the injection pump

 

[BigBison]

Lots of private roads and driveways in these parts, go years on end without being used (power-line access roads, etc.). I was talking to a guy who owns a landscape supply earlier after he drove by and saw my HMMH (snowed/rained most of the day) and stopped to chat. While he likes the brush-hog idea, he tells me that's where he gets the trees he sells -- brush-hog the smaller ones, tree-spade the larger ones & sell 'em to landscapers and whatnot.

There are skidsteer tree-spade attachments, but the bigger the tree the bigger the bucks, so I'm thinkin' badass tree spade on the rear of the SEE? So many live trees around here free for the spading. Put some in a pickup hauling a trailer, take 'em down to the Front Range and get paid twice as much as they go for up here in the Rockies. Can't you just picture a tree spade folded up on the back of a FLU?

 

[The FLU farm]

(those rear wheels are on bogies, not axles, wish my pickup truck rear-ends or trailers, etc. went over speed bumps with such aplomb, rear bogies kick a**).

Are you sure it's not the air suspension at work? I love air suspension. Have it on the pickups (rear) and of course the Pete and its trailers. Even built an air ride con gear with leftover Air Leaf parts from the Pete.
When time permits, a few of the regular goose necks and bumper pull trailers will get air suspension, too.

 

[BigBison]

As it turned out, I've driven/exercised it twice in seven months. The odometer hasn't added a mile yet. Still don't think it was needed to do anything to the rods.

I spent the past 1/4-century running a computer. Before that, I was a teenage machinist's apprentice who could do my own setups on simple lathe/mill work, pre-CNC. Now that I live where I do, I listen to the old salts (like my next door neighbor a mile down the road, 90-yr-old combat infantry veteran from the Korean conflict) telling me why my '95 and '02 CTD's front ends are shot, despite less than 200K miles combined. Because these folks have been maintaining heavy equipment since age 10 as a way of life, not something they did for a few years when they were young.

Every single last one of 'em wants to help me change my entire way of life in a back-to-the-land fashion... as long as I let 'em drive my Mogs!

 

[Another Ahab]

Just a fun link. If I take the RV to Tierra del Fuego, I'd be driving through at least 9 different electrical standards, so I've been looking at marine-grade gear for the new electrical system -- most RVs stay in their country of origin, whereas boats are more international. Lotsa RV-appropriate gear like that galley, are marketed to the pleasure-boat folks so you'll never hear about it if you're just searching RV gear.

I real fond of marine-grade gear. West Marine is a go-to stop for any hardware I need (it's all stainless, when stainless is what you're looking for):

www.westmarine.com

And the gear generally (plumbing, electrical, and otherwise), is all mostly built for harsh conditions and reliability. You can't much go wrong looking there first.

 

[BigBison]

Are you sure it's not the air suspension at work? I love air suspension. Have it on the pickups (rear) and of course the Pete and its trailers. Even built an air ride con gear with leftover Air Leaf parts from the Pete.

I'm putting air suspension (not air bags, i.e. I'm removing the leaf springs) on the back of my '02 CTD (24V "Mexican Block"), so I can swap the crane / service body off my '95 CTD (12V), which lists to starboard with the crane stowed on that side. Unless your four rear wheels are on bogies, you've bounced over speed bumps regardless of how the axles are suspended, or how slow you were going. Bogies just absorb speed bumps, without slowing down, or bouncing -- gotta try it to appreciate.

I've now driven two GMC mohos over speed bumps, one with the original rear air suspension, one with a modified rear you can get if you know the right guy on the right forum ("Sullybilt", my GMC also came with more-common Thorley headers & 3" SS exhaust, plus all the other standard 455 Olds Toranado FWD "ease-of-use" mods) on the one I wound up buying. Serious fundamental differences between the two, plus I've driven semi cabs & deuce & a halfs over speed bumps... Bogies are the way to go! Which wouldn't work at all on your Pete, how would the wheels be driven by a driveshaft without axles? Even without air, sprung bogies just walk over speed bumps.

Why I went with the GMC moho, given where I live... it's actually quite capable on muddy/snowy forest roads in the backcountry, jack the suspension all the way up and... well... I wish the 23' variants weren't so rare, mine's the common 26' but has too much overhang over the rear axles, the trailer hitch has 40 years worth of drag marks on it, kinda bent too. I really just want an oversize camper van, not a behemoth! Those rear bogies simply can't be beat for offroad maneuvers on that long a vehicle, plus the lack of axles means that's where you can mount fuel, water, waste tanks to keep the center of gravity low, I really do care about performance on mud, snow, ice, etc.

 

[BigBison]

The FLU does not have the shut off solenoid like your Dodge does. FLU is mechanical but does the same thing, shuts off the fuel at the injection pump

Apparently I've "thanked" too many people for a forum noob, so I have to reply! Thanks for the info, it's hard to tell if the FLU is supposed to work like an average truck, or an average backhoe? I know an old Mog guy here, but we didn't have time to actually start/drive/operate, he'll be back in my area soon so I can pick his brains on 406 vs. 419. All I know, is his "backhoe" is a front-mounted PTO-shaft-driven unit.

Without RTFM for literally a month, any info sincerely appreciated! I rank one overlooked film right up there with "Stripes" because I was an exchange student in Germany in the mid-80's (with Czech heritage, visited there in '84 and '86, couldn't help thinking "local heroes repel yankee horde" at every little podunk checkpoint while picturing a GMC moho crashing through the gate on a rampage):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Soldiers_(2001_film)

I had a GI gf "over there" at the time, but I think I loved her 6-cyl Oettinger-powered Vanagon Syncro Westy more than I loved her! My exchange dad had the same Mercedes ripped to shreds with automatic-weapons fire, like in the movie. Which I need to re-watch... it's a period piece, so maybe there's a FLU in it for authenticity? Dare I say pics of the Pentagon from 9/11 have SEE's in 'em or is that against forum rules, kind of a grey area but auto-moderation's everywhere these days...

 

[peakbagger]

FYI, there is a specific PS Magazine article warning about cooking the alternator by improper shutdown. Proper technique, close the throttle, then the key on the dash and then the master disconnect.

The PS Magazine extract is about 50 cartoons, print it out and its great bathroom reading

That's how mine are, Bison. Once they're running you can remove all keys, and they'll still run until the hand throttle is returned to "off". Which may not be healthy for the alternator.
I don't think that there's any need for anything electrical to work once they're running, and if there is, the alternator will supply it.

 

[The FLU farm]

Unless your four rear wheels are on bogies, you've bounced over speed bumps regardless of how the axles are suspended, or how slow you were going. Bogies just absorb speed bumps, without slowing down, or bouncing -- gotta try it to appreciate.

It's obviously helpful to get only half the vertical movement transferred to the chassis. It has allowed truckers to use Hendrickson "suspension" for decades, yet live to tell about it.
It also helps with traction, but in my case the logical solution was to remove one drive axle and install a Detroit No-Spin in an R170. Only been stuck once since. Ironically, that Pete was born a single axle, I bought it as a tandem axle, then made it a single axle again.

 

[The FLU farm]

...it's hard to tell if the FLU is supposed to work like an average truck, or an average backhoe?

From my experience, the answer is "neither".
Kinda like an AmphiCar, I suppose. Not particularly good on land, and not particularly good in water.
But fun.

 

[BigBison]

install a Detroit No-Spin

I've driven Detroit Locker-equipped trucks in snow, I have Torsen diffs on my FWD '78 Scirocco & '95 Prelude -- what can I say, I like having traction! What I'm looking at for my 24V CTD, is Eaton's M80 Locker on the rear, when I put the air suspension on. I'm having a front axle built for it, based on the 2001-only Dodge CTD, which was the only Dodge pickup of that generation without Center Axle Disconnect on the Dana 60. It'll have a True-Trac LSD.

My Dodges, and my derelict '70 BMW 2800CS coupe, have clutch-pack rear LSDs. I love those for dirt & mud, but on snow & ice, not so much. On dirt, if a drive wheel starts to spin, I give it more throttle not less -- locks the diff restoring traction. Better than no LSD in winter, but giving more throttle to lock the diff can kick the rear end around on RWD, vs. Torsen diffs you can let off the throttle, without inducing understeer on FWD and hitting the bank/ditch.

Can't wait to try out a TrueTrac on the front, I'm also swapping the transfer case so I'll be able to run the truck FWD (not that I'd want to, except to familiarize myself with TrueTrac behavior). I'm also real curious about the M80 locker -- can't run a Detroit without disabling ABS brakes. But this new front axle will have free-hubs so I'll have to get out and manually lock the hubs instead of shift-on-the-fly 4WD. No big thing, with all the weight I'll be carrying over the rear axle and Blizzak W960's (which I run year-round, lotsa miles left for summer use after the soft tread's worn, E-rated light truck tire w/ Kevlar so they don't wear like other Blizzaks) with rear LSD, 4WD won't be as necessary, so no need to shift on the fly.

My FLUs are my first hands-on experience with air lockers. My HMMH does strange things, but I think this is due to the air leak(s) I'm trying to track down around the receiver tanks -- sometimes the HMMH dash lights say the diffs are locked, but it isn't in 4WD. My 406 Mog guy hates the 4WD setup on the FLU, because if you lose air you can get stuck with power to just the one wheel without any traction. Setting up a Mog so it can get stuck off-road by a simple air leak, is sacrilegious to him. Or he likes sour-grape "jelly" on his toast?

 

[The FLU farm]

Bison, I'm a big fan of TrueTracs, and even more so, Detroits. Two of my Jeeps have Detroits front and rear, my home built (Jeep based) tractor has one in the rear and a TrueTrac up front. Plus about three more Detroits in other vehicles.
Detroits in snow aren't necessarily any fun (depending on the amount of sidehill), but the TrueTrac you can run open, or lock with some brake application.
Never been overly fond of ARBs and the like, due to having seen too many failures on the trail. Air or electrical issues only, but still, that means open.
So far, no problems with 4WD or diff lock application on the FLUs, even though on the parts SEE the 4WD and diffs weren't supposed to work.
Never built enough air pressure to function, I'm guessing, but after getting most of the dirt out of the drain valves the compressor does keep up.
I don't have a clue what the indicator lights have to say about it all - I've turned them on twice, out of curiosity, only to find that a bright green light tells me that the PTO is not on. Duh, if I haven't pulled the lever, it shouldn't be.

 

[peakbagger]

A FYI on the air lockers. There is routine maintenance required on the air lockers that may not be described in the TMs (At least I haven't found it). Gunk can build up in the cylinder bores inside the axles which can case the air lockers to stop moving. There are drain plugs on the bottom of the axle that can be opened up to flush out the bores of the lockers. Most recommendations are to spray marvel mystery oil into the inlet piping and flush it through the drain. I have been unable to get the air lines loose on the inlet as they appear to be stuck on the fittings but have sprayed mystery oil up through the drain and it seems to have freed up mine.

Parts to fix the air lockers are cheap, unfortunately its about 8 hours labor by someone who knows what they are doing and has the right tools to replace them

 

[Skidpad]

Peakbagger, that's good intel right there, thanks! Mine seem to be working now but I really want to keep it that way. I'm not near my machine right now so I haven't looked but if you have a chance could you snap a picture of the drain plugs you mentioned? Likewise (and I am sorry for my noobie questions) when you say "inlet piping" where are you talking about exactly and is that inlet piping for the air system or what? I really want to keep this thing up and running 'cause I've work to do.

On a related note, I still can't tell whether my springs or shocks are on the way out or if this thing normally has this boat-like floating when moving around even at slow speed. How much body movement is normal vs wheel articulation? Anyone's opinions or experience is appreciated here. Even better, if anyone has attempted a spring replacement with upgraded springs I'd love to hear the procedure. The shocks look pretty straightforward.

SF

 

[The FLU farm]

There are drain plugs on the bottom of the axle that can be opened up to flush out the bores of the lockers. Most recommendations are to spray marvel mystery oil into the inlet piping and flush it through the drain. I have been unable to get the air lines loose on the inlet as they appear to be stuck on the fittings but have sprayed mystery oil up through the drain and it seems to have freed up mine.

Alright, I'm lazy, and I think that the connections in the axle end could be harder to undo than at the other end of the hose.
Peakbagger, do you see any reason not to put the Mystery Oil in the top end of the hose? If so, once someone posts the picture of the drain plug, or I find it myself, I'll try to get that one done before winter.

 

[The FLU farm]

On a related note, I still can't tell whether my springs or shocks are on the way out or if this thing normally has this boat-like floating when moving around even at slow speed. How much body movement is normal vs wheel articulation? Anyone's opinions or experience is appreciated here. Even better, if anyone has attempted a spring replacement with upgraded springs I'd love to hear the procedure. The shocks look pretty straightforward.

Skid, I priced the OE shocks at a Freightliner dealer. Not pleasant. Never got around to measure them and find "regular" affordable replacements.
But as I mentioned earlier, the shocks on my SEE are highly suspect, and it rides accordingly.
Time will tell if mine ends up with a suspension lockout (hydraulic cylinders), new shocks, air suspension, or a combination thereof.

 

[General Hood]

Skid, I priced the OE shocks at a Freightliner dealer. Not pleasant. Never got around to measure them and find "regular" affordable replacements.
But as I mentioned earlier, the shocks on my SEE are highly suspect, and it rides accordingly.
Time will tell if mine ends up with a suspension lockout (hydraulic cylinders), new shocks, air suspension, or a combination thereof.

GP will note whether the seatbelt is functional, during their inspection report, but fail to note most issues any of us have with these "truck/equipment machines". Once again, you guys have inspired me to add another page to my "to do" list

 

[peakbagger]

I don't have a picture of the air locker drain but here is snap shot of the TM page. Its #6 and is directly below the air line connection #3 on the bottom side of the tube. The drain plug was painted over. I had to scrape off the paint to get a wrench on it.

If I remember correctly the other end of the air line is hard to get to.