FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[peakbagger]

Alright, now you got me concerned. How cold does it get there in Utah?
I thought I was pretty darn anal about cold starts and keeping lubricated parts happy, but all I've done is use anti gel additive in the fuel. It generally doesn't go much below -20 degrees here, and the snowblower SEE will continue to live outside.
Well, whatever heaters you'd recommend - and I know they sure wouldn't hurt - won't get installed until before next winter. I'll be lucky to get the snowblower functional before it all freezes up.

I have seen several Unimog and Case Variants in the Northeast advertised with diesel fired circulating hot water heaters. If the rig is used frequently they leave the heaters running, otherwise they are just turned out a few hours in advance. I expect synthetic oil, transmission fluid, gear oil and hydraulic fluids all will really help. Don't forget a desicant air dryer with downstream alcohol injection system.

 

[FOD]

Learned a lot about the HMMH forklift today, operating with a buddy w/ regular forklift experience, I let him transport a pallet.


The HMMH died once yesterday, and three times today. Dumping that jerry can of mystery fuel into it yesterday, prolly sucked some crud into the fuel filters. You can operate for a while, then they must drain down. Walk away for 1/2 hour, come back, runs fine for another hour before crapping out again, so they must fill back up? When she runs, she runs awesome....

I was having the exact same problem with mine, it turned out to be the fuel shut off valve. It had significant plugging which allowed it to run ok up to about 1000 rpm but choked it out at anything higher. I have not had a single issue since disassembly and cleaning.

 

[The FLU farm]

Rapidly approaching one year of having had the pleasure to learn what makes a FLU tick through this forum, I would like to thank you all for the advice, camaraderie, and laughs.
Well, maybe not all of you. There are those who have given me new ideas for yet more projects to complete - I need more projects like I need another hole in the head.
Also, thank you for putting up (at least publicly) with my usually sarcastic and often whimsical responses.

This is the second forum I've joined, the first first being for little go-fast cars from the Sixties and Seventies. In comparison, there is no comparison.
Those vehicle enthusiasts get wadded up when a headlight stops working, asking forum members for advice on how to figure out what the problem might be.
For example, I sold a very nice V8, 5-speed converted car (also had A/C added, custom suspension, and much more) to a member of that forum. He claimed to be a good mechanic, which is quite helpful when dealing with 40-plus year old cars, and especially modified ones. Well, he had the local service station install the license plate for him.
Those guys would freak out if they found a mouse dropping under the car in the garage. If they encountered rat modified wiring (of which there is very little to begin with, and it's all color coded) they would sell or scrap the car. Or at best, take it to a shop. Yes, replacement harnesses are available.

Well, you can see where I'm going with this. It's very refreshing for me to learn something from a forum, and to find that there's hope for mankind. That there are still individuals who can think for themselves, apply their skills, bleed a little (or maybe even a lot) while in some cases fighting seemingly overwhelming odds
I never would have imagined that I'd make friends through the internet, but here at the FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners Group I have.
Thank you all!

 

[Mark1954]

Same here, maybe it is the size of the club - small, and smaller each day as many of the remaining units seem pretty bad.
BTW, does anyone need a new heater unit for the SEE or HMMH? I found some on an auction site, problem is it is a lot of 7,
If cheap enough, might be worth having - if they ever go out. If they don't go out, then not worth buying spares. Thoughts??

 

[BigBison]

Okay Bison, now I'm puzzled. Not that it's hard to accomplish that, but still. So why would the Pierce's motor need to be horizontal? If the hydraulic system is full of fluid, which it should be to function properly, I don't understand how it could matter which way the motor is situated. Of course, in a self recovery situation it becomes self regulated as the engine driving the P/S pump won't run well (or for long) on its side or upside down.

That's a good question, if I was still considering the Pierce for my current truck project, I'd follow up on that. I think it may have more to do with the mounting points, than the hydraulic motor? That was the context of my asking, talking about mounting it, not the hydraulic motor which we then discussed downsizing. I'm leaning towards the Mile Marker, and the burliest PS pump I could find which bolts up, meant for powering hydraulic-ram-assisted steering on rock crawler rigs. Won't be enough winch for the windmill tower, not meant for self-recovery.

If I had a winch right now, I'd use it to roll that dropped quonset arch bundle pallet-down. Instead, I'll wrap a diaper around that leaky ram and deploy the HMMH crane. Run a strap under the load & back up to the pallet, put it on the crane hook, and lift... oughta roll over. Trying that with a winch might just drag the load. It came so close to landing jelly-side-up yesterday, before settling back on its side. The best two grown men could do in that spot, was give it 1/4-roll the wrong way and at least get it back on the forks.

 

[BigBison]

I am installing a tranny heater, pan heater and coolant recirculating heater on a 110V circuit with additionally a dual fuel heating system. One heater for the tank and one for the filters that runs on 24V with a dash switch.

In addition to the hydronic units on my FLUs, I've also gone with AC heated dipsticks & coolant heaters. Colder than 15 below, I'll plug in the dipstick overnight to keep the oil warm, if I need the SEE to move snow in the morning. The coolant heater is meant as a backup to the hydronic unit, the ether shot is relegated to emergency cold-starts only. It got down to 18* night before last, and I needed the HMMH at the crack of dawn. Couldn't find the manual at home, remembered I stowed it under the passenger seat of the HMMH. The 20 minutes it took the hydronic unit's coolant hoses to become warm to the touch, was more than enough time to RTFM and refresh my memory on clutch must be in.

 

[911joeblow]

In addition to the hydronic units on my FLUs, I've also gone with AC heated dipsticks & coolant heaters. Colder than 15 below, I'll plug in the dipstick overnight to keep the oil warm, if I need the SEE to move snow in the morning. The coolant heater is meant as a backup to the hydronic unit, the ether shot is relegated to emergency cold-starts only. It got down to 18* night before last, and I needed the HMMH at the crack of dawn. Couldn't find the manual at home, remembered I stowed it under the passenger seat of the HMMH. The 20 minutes it took the hydronic unit's coolant hoses to become warm to the touch, was more than enough time to RTFM and refresh my memory on clutch must be in.

I live up at altitude and it does get cold. Not often negative numbers but I dont like starting anything that is not pre-heated. Diesels are nasty when cold. Both my daily driver Audi's have all three fluids pre-heated on timers starting a few hours before start times. My fuel consumption is way down and they are nice and toasty right at startup. Oil has stayed cleaner too. I have an RV also with pre-heaters, and my HMMWV is getting them too with the addition of the 24V fuel heater. I run Bio-diesel too and preheating is a must.

 

[BigBison]

Sounds like my suspension lockout doesn't work like it's supposed to, then. It simply locks the suspension.
Also, I only have the one switch (that I know of) which when pulled out, and with everything else in order, locks the suspension and displays a yellow light.

My yellow light has a dab of OD paint (blackout-friendly perhaps) in the center, so it's a ring of light, but mine's also a button. It lowers really slowly, not like cruising with the lowriders Sat. nite, at first I thought I had to keep my hand pulling the switch out, but no. Once you've pulled the knob, mine will lower all the way unless you push the knob back in, at which point it rises back up. You also don't need to keep the clutch depressed, or even stop driving, once it's engaged. My buddy and I agreed that it's much easier to get a pallet off the ground with it engaged, as it changes your angle of view to the forks.

It kinda makes sense that using high range would disengage the lockout, and based on what you describe about gear and range choices you're driving a LOT faster than I would ever try with something on the forks. And that's on a fairly smooth driveway - 2nd or 3rd in low range is fast enough for me, even though I'm a devoted speed demon (just not with machinery of any kind).

Direct 3 in low range, *is* as fast as I was going, under 2K rpm. Slow & steady wins the race. The two granny gears are good for loading, but transporting, 2 & 3 are still crawling at low revs. Even still, that sprung rear end gives you something to consider coming down a bumpy grade loaded.

To keep the forks from bouncing, just pin them in the down position. I've never done it, but then I obviously don't drive anywhere near fast enough in the HMMH to need them locked down.

Thanks for that -- didn't occur to me, but now that you mention it, I guess that's what those holes are there for!

Fuel filters filling back up on their own? That sounds highly unlikely to me, as I thought the engine had to be running to pump fuel. Does the tank vent properly? Of course, putting "mystery fuel" in the tank may not help matters. If by "mystery fuel" you mean what the FLU came with, I've drained all mine into 5-gallons buckets and use it (not without hesitation) to clean parts in.

Not filling up on their own, I think maybe the larger flakes of sludge & rust fall off after a bit of downtime, then it takes them a while to stir back up & re-clog the filter. We'll see, when I get a chance to do that. Mostly, I'm hustling on the quonset construction (and with the new clock, running out of daylight early, and perhaps in a rush) so I have somewhere indoors to set the HMMH to rights and get comfortable with its maintenance/intervals before next building season. I'll also check the fuel tank venting, thanks for that, I seem to recall reading in this thread about stray OD paint clogging 'em.

 

[peakbagger]

Same here, maybe it is the size of the club - small, and smaller each day as many of the remaining units seem pretty bad.
BTW, does anyone need a new heater unit for the SEE or HMMH? I found some on an auction site, problem is it is a lot of 7,
If cheap enough, might be worth having - if they ever go out. If they don't go out, then not worth buying spares. Thoughts??

Because of its location I expect they rot out as if they are used in areas with salt, its likely that salt from boots cause the case to rot out. Mine has some rot started. Not worth $600 but worth $200 to me. They also would make a nice cab heater for work van.

 

[The FLU farm]

I'm leaning towards the Mile Marker, and the burliest PS pump I could find which bolts up, meant for powering hydraulic-ram-assisted steering on rock crawler rigs. Won't be enough winch for the windmill tower, not meant for self-recovery.

Bison, I understand why you want a worm gear winch, but why does it have to be hydraulically powered? And while I can understand why you might prefer that, too, I would look for a separate pump to run the winch.
P/S pumps have other more important duties and I'd rather not mess with those if at all avoidable. Which it is.

Completely unrelated, yesterday morning I finally felt that I could replace my beyond tattered flag.

It was also a good day in that the hard part of the roof extension got done. In (still) nice weather, no less.

Then I celebrated it all by installing the rear QD fittings for the snow blower, since it was a much quieter and relaxing task than cutting, hoisting, and welding steel.

 

[The FLU farm]

BTW, does anyone need a new heater unit for the SEE or HMMH? I found some on an auction site, problem is it is a lot of 7,
If cheap enough, might be worth having - if they ever go out. If they don't go out, then not worth buying spares. Thoughts??

Mark, if the price is reasonable, I would be in for one of those heaters. By having a spare, I'd obviously never need one, and that'd be worth it.

 

[BigBison]

As a forklift, my opinion is for loading & unloading a truck on pavement, it's about your worst-possible choice. Unless you get a pallet hook for the crane, in which case it isn't a bad choice, except it's a two-man show due to the lack of remote control (also why man-basket's not a good idea -- tree-cutter the other day was up at full vertical to use his cellphone in Yampa, while I was talking to the guy on the ground who was *not* in charge of the cherry-picker basket). Not that it's easy to operate the forklift by yourself! You only get to see your left fork. Rearranging the load on the flatbed was much easier with someone riding shotgun, rather than outside shouting & gesticulating. Still, pallet fork on the crane with the HMMH would get the job done so much faster, even just to go slower cross-country on the forklift with daylight running out and already pushing way past the usual start of the snowpack at 8000ft.

Transporting a load offroad, corner-to-corner on a 40-acre square parcel with obstacles & impediments both sides, crawling along... HMMH is your only possible choice! Helps to have someone riding shotgun who can just say "up" or "down" with the goal of keeping the load as low to the ground as possible. I'm watching my side, while thinking "up" or "down" and translating that to lift vs. tilt -- if he's saying "up" and I'm clear a good ways, a few degrees of tilt on a load that wide is like a foot of lift on his side, quicker. Half my travel yesterday was offroad, not just off-pavement.

My backup Honda came in handy this week. It's parked at the quonset jobsite, and everyone assumes it got there on a flatbed. Nope... I can drive a slightly-lowered '95 Prelude in and out of there, semi-straddling one rut or the other, and scraping out the young sagebrush growing in between with the front-lower stress bar (which is a bit curved from my first shot at the dip which cost me the one load yesterday). My challenge to anyone, is not breaking it or getting it stuck, but it's a parts car now (with no project car I need the parts for) so give it a whirl! I have the JDM baffled-aluminum oil pan for it, sitting in a shed, bashing the USDM steel pan is literally the worst that can happen.

The HMMH is narrow, like the Prelude. Sometimes, the trick isn't using the load tilt, it's scooching one way or another out of the ruts and tilting the front of the truck (which wouldn't happen without the suspension locked out). The back of the truck can do its own thing, but part of that's gonna be bouncing up & down even at walking speed. Which makes for a tricky descent over my granite hogback with a steep blind dogleg at the top, running loaded the hard way with that dip on one side where it's steepest on the descent. Any gear lower than 2-direct (low range, of course) is too much braking, requiring throttle to compensate. I'm after the lowest gear which lets the truck do all the work. 3-under worked for the final, lightest pallet (and easiest to drag there behind my pickup, if the HMMH quit again).

 

[The FLU farm]

As a forklift, my opinion is for loading & unloading a truck on pavement, it's about your worst-possible choice.

Which makes for a tricky descent over my granite hogback with a steep blind dogleg at the top, running loaded the hard way with that dip on one side where it's steepest on the descent. Any gear lower than 2-direct (low range, of course) is too much braking, requiring throttle to compensate. I'm after the lowest gear which lets the truck do all the work. 3-under worked for the final, lightest pallet (and easiest to drag there behind my pickup, if the HMMH quit again).

Never having used a real forklift, my only comparison is with using a pallet fork attachment on the tractor. I was getting decent at operating that setup, but found it a whole lot easier with the HMMH. Even though I had very limited experience with using the forklift at the time, it was much quicker to unload a trailer with the HMMH. And at typical trailer height, seeing the fork tips is easy, I think, unlike when picking up or setting things down at ground level.

Now I'm getting called to dinner, but I'll return to the speed/gear subject once having been fed and burped.

 

[The FLU farm]

Alright, Bison, back to your speed/gearing comments. I'm trying to picture what you're doing, and how.
For example, you say that 2nd gear is too low, requiring throttle to compensate when going down a hill, if I understand you correctly.
Having four wheeled for most of my life, I always thought that not using the brakes was the safe way to do it. Yes, if there's a 3-foot drop-off along the way down, one has to be prepared to throttle out of it, not to do a forwards endo, especially in a short wheelbase vehicle like my Flatfender. Other that that, I've always used the lowest gear available that doesn't make me grow old on the way down.
Also, I'm generally a complete slowpoke when on a trail, to the point that I've successfully climbed sand dunes in 1st gear low range. I'm equally slow with the HMMH, usually wishing for something lower than 1st gear, low range, when moving loads. And if I picture your situation right, the surfaces I'm operating on are perfectly flat in comparison.
Based on my guesswork, it sounds like you're going much faster than I would, using gears one or two steps up over what I'd pick, and on much rougher terrain. If that's true, it would explain how you can make the forks bounce up, have loads fall off, etc. A photo of what you're traversing might help me understand this better.

 

[BigBison]

For example, you say that 2nd gear is too low, requiring throttle to compensate when going down a hill, if I understand you correctly.

No, I said 2-direct was about perfect for descending my grade, I'd say 8-9% at the top, leveling off a bit, rest of the way about 7%. Nothing major unless you have 2 1/2 tons hanging out there in front of your steer wheels...

Also, I'm generally a complete slowpoke when on a trail, to the point that I've successfully climbed sand dunes in 1st gear low range. I'm equally slow with the HMMH, usually wishing for something lower than 1st gear, low range, when moving loads. And if I picture your situation right, the surfaces I'm operating on are perfectly flat in comparison.
Based on my guesswork, it sounds like you're going much faster than I would, using gears one or two steps up over what I'd pick, and on much rougher terrain. If that's true, it would explain how you can make the forks bounce up, have loads fall off, etc. A photo of what you're traversing might help me understand this better.

Fair enough. If I could find my 2nd, charged camera battery or the charger for it, I'd have taken some pics to post. Two problems I faced: one, running out of daylight; two, keeping a truck waiting which I wasn't expecting for another week yet. Even without being in a rush, 1-under, 1-direct, 2-under in low range are slow enough to get out-crawled by a baby. The gears I'm using are walking speed for a puppy, sometimes throttling up, my doggie broke into a slow trot now & then to keep up alongside. Slower than I can stay balanced on a motorcycle.

Going any slower, I'd have to think it'd be more cost-effective to offload one truck onto another, drive that truck to the jobsite, and offload it. Given the equipment at hand, and the amount of daylight this time of year in the mountains, if my HMMH is going to be of any value over the long term, you can't tell me 3-direct in low range @ 1500rpm as a top speed on good surfaces makes me some kind of hot-rodding speed demon!

Maybe if I were carrying ordnance, I'd go slower. But there comes a point where two dudes pushing a cart is more economical. I'd rather think that, even if downtime cost me some hours, less than half a day to transport five pallets that far across that terrain, must be economical somehow. Don't go bursting my bubble that at some point the HMMH makes sense in the final cost-benefit analysis!

I had to ultra-granny back up that hill at high idle (1100 in a HMMH) unloaded yesterday, crested the hogback just as she quit entirely, coasted down & parked for lunch. A load big enough to require that low a gear to move (2 crates on my spread contain 5 tons of disassembled 125-yr-old, 25hp steam stationary engine from a decomissioned Great Lakes lighthouse, seized but gorgeous) should come in on a flatbed truck. Or a 3-axle, 65-ton crane truck. That's the biggest thing can get to my jobsite, and just barely, which delivered those crates. I might build the quonset around them, instead of moving them in later. In 1-under, low range.

But that's a 50-yard move, not cross-country. In light of no damage or injuries, I'm glad I found the limit of my offroad forklift the hard way. Won't be doing that again! I made a stupid mistake, but other than that, descending @1200-1500rpm in 2-direct low range wasn't my mistake and I don't think it's inherently unsafe unless you're carrying too big a load for the HMMH. IMO after one day operating an offroad forklift, so YMMV as you write your own book on how it's done.

Which brings us to agreeing to disagree, which is fine. Still pics or even video aside, you kinda had to be there. I learn from my mistakes, so the takeaway here, is there are plenty of mistakes to be made with the HMMH forklift. Because the truck is way more capable than any other chassis any other forklift has ever been mounted to. Make your own rules! Safety first. Ratchet straps woulda saved me from exceeding the operational safety limit for the task at hand, even if it was only for a few yards. If I'd hit 2-direct as planned, never woulda happened. I was trying to get some actual work done, not take all day proving my truck could do it once if driven slower than a snail.

 

[The FLU farm]

Which brings us to agreeing to disagree, which is fine. Still pics or even video aside, you kinda had to be there. I learn from my mistakes, so the takeaway here, is there are plenty of mistakes to be made with the HMMH forklift. Because the truck is way more capable than any other chassis any other forklift has ever been mounted to. Make your own rules! Safety first. Ratchet straps woulda saved me from exceeding the operational safety limit for the task at hand, even if it was only for a few yards. If I'd hit 2-direct as planned, never woulda happened. I was trying to get some actual work done, not take all day proving my truck could do it once if driven slower than a snail.

Yup. And as I read your latest post it dawned on me that I would've likely backed down that hill, at least the first time. Not that 9% is steep, but I'm still allergic to cabovers on downhills after having spent time in unladen Jeep FC150s many moons ago. It didn't help that I hadn't learned to slow down yet (and lower gear sets for the transfer case were not available then).
We broke a lot more parts back then, but admittedly I have rolled over far more times since slowing down. On tougher trails, but still.
One of these days I need to take a trip over your way, and bring the HMMH and my Jeep so we can swap lies, break stuff, roll a vehicle, and whatever other fun we can dream up. If I combine it with a visit at Jay Couch's place, I could even return home with more good parts than I left with.

 

[BigBison]

I'm getting a kick out of just debating the merits of the lowest six, of eighteen, gears on the HMMH and stale vs. fresh marshmallow modes (lockout) for using the forklift. Even if my camera did work, I didn't have time to stop for vid/pic production. The HMMH has the most useless center rearview mirror ever, with that crane stowed, so rearview cam for backing down a hill (the old front-wheel-drive VW/Honda trick, is backing *up* a hill). But a good dash cam would be excellent, if I can mount/wire it to go from one FLU to the other and make vids of the various gear I'm running at the touch of a button while operating, and Santa honors the rest of my list...

http://us.getac.com/Solutions/veretos-mvs/Veretos-MVS.html
http://us.getac.com/handhelds/PS336/features.html
http://us.getac.com/notebooks/V110/features.html

...plus that laptop's gonna run off that inverter/charger in my service body, which also turns the truck into a big ol' UPS for the computer in case "shore power" is interrupted. I need some accurate GPS coordinates to give the county, to get addresses assigned on my two adjacent parcels based on where the driveways actually *are*. Oh, yeah, anyone can do that with their phone nowadays, except I'm off-grid no-signal. So a jobsite computer like that will really come in handy over the next few years.

 

[The FLU farm]

. The HMMH has the most useless center rearview mirror ever, with that crane stowed, so rearview cam for backing down a hill (the old front-wheel-drive VW/Honda trick, is backing *up* a hill). But a good dash cam would be excellent, if I can mount/wire it to go from one FLU to the other and make vids of the various gear I'm running at the touch of a button while operating, and Santa honors the rest of my list...

Ah, another thing we can (dis)agree to disagree on. Most my vehicles don't have an inside mirror, which is fine with me since I never use the indoor one.
But I would probably rather remove the real (outside) mirrors, and be stuck with only an inside one, than have to use a screen on the dash.

 

[BigBison]

It was pictured in an article about alternative fuels - largely about wood gas.
Caught my interest since my grandfather had a wood gas fired truck during/after the war in Europe.

I'm looking at a reactor to produce a 50/50 bio-diesel/bio-DME blend. As a catalyst, I'll need a little coal. My neighbor's land has an open coal seam on it, a few shovelfuls every now and then is OK by them in exchange for running their cattle on my land, every now and then. Primary ingredient is wood chips, like if I brush-hog I clean up the waste and chip it, for feedstock in my biofuel reactor. The other input will be methane, from a biogas digester. Coal-enhanced wood gas, plus a little processing, yields an interesting (and stable liquid, with an additive or two) truck/tractor fuel.

 

[The FLU farm]

I'm looking at a reactor to produce a 50/50 bio-diesel/bio-DME blend. As a catalyst, I'll need a little coal. My neighbor's land has an open coal seam on it, a few shovelfuls every now and then is OK by them in exchange for running their cattle on my land, every now and then. Primary ingredient is wood chips, like if I brush-hog I clean up the waste and chip it, for feedstock in my biofuel reactor. The other input will be methane, from a biogas digester. Coal-enhanced wood gas, plus a little processing, yields an interesting (and stable liquid, with an additive or two) truck/tractor fuel.

Another thing you may want to consider is running on used engine oil. I made a gravity fed contraption for filtering when experimenting with used oil in an M1009, but there was a commercially available setup - Oil Cat, if memory serves me - that was literally a push-a-button approach. Well, you had to remove the drain plug on the engine, but other than that...
Up to 7% used oil to diesel was approved for simple diesels like ours, as I recall, and the procedure is apparently common in Alaska on diesel powered generators.
Naturally I had to push the envelope, and at about 40% the M1009 was getting hard to start, and smoked quite a bit.
Still, it was legal even in CA, as long as the oil came out of the same vehicle that it was dumped into the fuel tank of. Not that I understand how they could keep track of what vehicle it came out of. With one oil change on the Pete alone, I had 10 gallons of free fuel.
An added benefit was that even a tiny bit of used oil made the fuel completely black. When I asked an oil analysis lab if it'd be possible to detect red dye in fuel with used oil in it, the answer was "Highly unlikely."
With all the used 10W I'm generating now, plus all the regular oil changes, I should probably look into starting filtering again.

EDIT: Found a photo of the Oil-Cat.