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FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

rtrask

Well-known member
342
251
63
Location
San Luis Valley, Colorado
When did this start? No loading was available when I got mine. Had to hire a wrecker.
I was surprised at the generals post too, because the GP web page says under pickup terms

"No Loading Dock, Ramps, or Forklift Available: Only RGN or trailers with ramps can be used to pick up this item at this location. Seller will not allow item to be loaded on a step-deck or flatbed trailer without the appropriate ramps"

The shipper gave me a similar impression, but I have no personal experience. The shipper said it would be driven on / off if it could be operated under its own power, or winched on and use gravity to get it off if the tires are OK.

The Inspection Report said that the FLU I bought had to be started by jumping it at the solenoid, and it shows the tires as being in OK shape. So theoretically there should be no problem, but ...
 

General Hood

Member
712
2
18
Location
Fort Towson, OK
The kid at the Texarkana lot is a little wild with the forklift, so discretion is advised. But he will jump start and drive your FLU onto your trailer for you. If you are having someone do the pick up for you, have them pick up the items usually left on the ground by the SEE (i.e. hood, engine doghouse, spare tire) or they will get left behind
 

rtrask

Well-known member
342
251
63
Location
San Luis Valley, Colorado
The kid at the Texarkana lot is a little wild with the forklift, so discretion is advised. But he will jump start and drive your FLU onto your trailer for you. If you are having someone do the pick up for you, have them pick up the items usually left on the ground by the SEE (i.e. hood, engine doghouse, spare tire) or they will get left behind
After looking through several inspection reports there's no doubt that they are a little careless with the fork lift, and my exhaust pipe shows a mild example.

Good advice on asking the driver to pick up stuff on the ground around the SEE. None of the pictures show the engine hatch cover on my FLU. Maybe I will get lucky and it was just removed prior to taking the pictures. Or maybe there is one laying on the ground near by that belongs with it. If it gets here without the engine cover I guess I can live without it. Does anybody here have experience with getting a replacement?

I half way want to do a road trip to supervise loading it up, but suspect it would be a lot of trouble without any net gain.


Any advice on jump starting it once it arrives? I am not sure how to do that with a 24 volt system. I intend to have the new batteries before it arrives, but it is best to have a backup plan.
 

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911joeblow

Active member
508
68
28
Location
Utah
I thought both my fans were bad on SEE #2, but ran direct wires to the battery and they operated, so I'm looking at yet another re-wire :-x
Dont feel too bad General as misery has company, turns out whenever I use the accessory real switch it works but then blows the fuse when I turn it off!?!?! I have relegated myself to just not using it for now as I continue my ranch fence project (pics to follow). By the way the cool auger set-up, complete waste of time for my situation. I am in an old river bed and have those nice round river rocks everywhere. The auger cant deal with them and gets jammed, cross digs, and takes forever. So after struggling for 2 days I just pulled it and put the bucket back on. The holes are easy to dig but way to large now so I end up doing a lot of backfiling after the posts are in but not sure there is much else to do. I am down to 30mins a post including cement, so I will likely not have a back by project end....:|
 

alpine44

Member
397
17
18
Location
Asheville, NC - Elkton, MD
Don't get me wrong here, alpine. I encourage you to get that SEE home and get it working right (misery loves company). It's the drive I take exception to.
UPDATE:
Instead of trying to drive the FLU419 home I decided to have Wes pick it up since he had a delivery close by. The FLU was apparently sold by GP and delivered to the seller with the backhoe locked in the operating position. While I received a video from the seller that had the engine running for several minutes, Wes was not able to keep the unit running for more than a few seconds. Even after hooking up an alternate fuel source (whatever was in the tank did not even light up with a match), the engine would stall after a few seconds. When the engine ran briefly there was hydraulic oil gushing out of the rear pump and hoses. The bucket tilt was also spewing oil when trying to get the loader in the travel position. The item that ultimately killed the loading and transport was one of the backhoe locks that could not be released even after Wes broke one crowbar and bent another one (which would explain why there is no photo of this unit with the backhoe stowed).

FLU419_leaks.jpg

Needless to say, I am pi$$ed that the seller did not disclose these problems and instead advertised the unit on ebay and in numerous email exchanges as "running" and "driving". He knew that my initial plan was to drive this machine home. How is this going to happen with an extended backhoe, a non-running engine, and an air system that did not build pressure as evidenced in his video? After Wes (locally) and I (remotely) wasted several hours on this lawn ornament, I had no other choice than to file a complaint with ebay asking for cancellation of the transaction and refund of my money.

So, I have to change my status back to "FLU-less" and keep looking for another unit. On the positive side, we really love our new home and property in Western North Carolina.
 
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911joeblow

Active member
508
68
28
Location
Utah
UPDATE:
Instead of trying to drive the FLU419 home I decided to have Wes pick it up since he had a delivery close by. The FLU was apparently sold by GP and delivered to the seller with the backhoe locked in the operating position. While I received a video from the seller that had the engine running for several minutes, Wes was not able to keep the unit running for more than a few seconds. Even after hooking up an alternate fuel source (whatever was in the tank did not even light up with a match), the engine would stall after a few seconds. When the engine ran briefly there was hydraulic oil gushing out of the rear pump and hoses. The bucket tilt was also spewing oil when trying to get the loader in the travel position. The item that ultimately killed the loading and transport was one of the backhoe locks that could not be released even after Wes broke one crowbar and bent another one (which would explain why there is no photo of this unit with the backhoe stowed).

Needless to say, I am pi$$ed that the seller did not disclose these problems and instead advertised the unit on ebay and in numerous email exchanges as "running" and "driving". He knew that my initial plan was to drive this machine home. How is this going to happen with an extended backhoe, a non-running engine, and an air system that did not build pressure as evidenced in his video? After Wes (locally) and I (remotely) wasted several hours on this lawn ornament, I had no other choice than to file a complaint with ebay asking for cancellation of the transaction and refund of my money.

So, I have to change my status back to "FLU-less" and keep looking for another unit. On the positive side, we really love our new home and property in Western North Carolina.
Sorry to hear that! Sounds like it is better in the long run anyway.
 

The FLU farm

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
3,338
1,319
113
Location
The actual midwest, NM.
If it gets here without the engine cover I guess I can live without it.
Any advice on jump starting it once it arrives? I am not sure how to do that with a 24 volt system.
You may be able to live without the doghouse if you have very effective hearing protection.

My advice for jump starting the SEE once it arrives is don't. Look things over and check fluids before any starting attempts.
Then, jump starting a 24 Volt system is the same as with 12 Volts, except that you need two batteries and two sets of jumper cables.
 
It could all be a blessing in disguise, alpine44. Now you can seek out a better one - and maybe for less money, especially in the long run.
Sorry to hear about your troubles alpine44. I second what FLU Farm is saying. Even a "good" one requires a fair amount of care and feeding. Having a bad one is not just a money pit (even working on it yourself), but delays all projects for which the SEE was intended beyond all realistic expectations. It's just not worth it for anyone short of an eccentric billionaire auto collector.
 
By the way the cool auger set-up, complete waste of time for my situation. I am in an old river bed and have those nice round river rocks everywhere. The auger cant deal with them and gets jammed, cross digs, and takes forever.
Too bad about the auger. I have some experience attempting to use an auger in an old riverbed area. It's near impossible to keep it drilling in the direction you want! Not having any other power equipment I had to resort to a digging bar and pick to finish the job.

I was looking forward to your report. From your pics of the unit I thought you might just have a winning ticket, with the good pilot spike in the center and aggressive cutting edges.

It looks like rounded rocks and augers just dont mix.
 
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General Hood

Member
712
2
18
Location
Fort Towson, OK
That was no trouble. What troubles me is that I didn't have the correct sizes on hand, at least not new ones. And I wasn't about to spend hours installing used belts.
Also troubling me is that someone used two SAE bolts (instead of 12 mm) to fasten the skid plate. No big deal to run a tap through the captured nuts and fix that issue - except that I can't find three (one of the correct bolts was boogered) bolts of the correct length.
With all the crap I have, it really bugs me when I end up having to buy stuff.

Of course, it bugs me even more when I find a part not long after having bought one.

EDIT: So the plot thickens. Three of the four captive nuts were standard thread, one's metric.
Did Red River tap three of them out to 1/2", then use a 12mm bolt in one of the three?
Using a tap, those three nuts are now made good again, and there's one lone 12mm holding the skid plate. It won't be a problem for me as I always start fasteners by hand, and keep track of where they came from, but it is kinda redneck.
Either way, the skid plate will remain off until the belts definitely won't need any adjustments - and my back allows me to reinstall it.
I found a solution to your tool problem
FB_IMG_1495935932588.jpg
 

peakbagger

Well-known member
734
360
63
Location
northern nh
Yes, prices are coming down slowly on GP. Unfortunately, quality is dropping as well. In the meantime, the list of projects I need this machine for is growing.
I recently described buying a direct surplus SEE sight unseen as buying a lottery ticket. I "bought" one of those tickets and it turned out pretty well but I did a lot of homework. The seller was a poster on this site and had been posting about it for several months on his ongoing progress (this was before the big surge in government sales). Even my purchase wasn't flawless as while it was stored at his property in Texas a civilian rodent ate part of the harness and it had some of the normal storage issues. Some folks have scored some great rigs from GP and we on occasion get to hear about them but expect a lot of folks who bought bad ones don't talk about it. I have seen several SEE ebay auctions where the descriptions sure are suspicious and several auctions of the same piece of equipment which I suspect may be that the seller misrepresented the condition and the buyer backed out. Generally a dealer no reserve auction is something I would stay away from.

The main problem is there are few dealers and individuals who have a clue about SEEs. C&C seems to do enough volume that I expect that the ones he buys and ultimately sells are going to be "good" ones. Of course he is businessman, if he ends up with one with serious issues, is he going to "eat it", I don't know but the temptation might be to sell it. There is seller in VT that seems to always have a new one for sale and expect there are other private sellers that have figured out how to pick a good one and turn them around to make a profit. I find it interesting that Expedition Imports doesn't seem to deal in them, they are the logical firm to be running them through inventory since they have the parts inventory but very rarely has he listed any (I do remember a HMMH). Couch Off Road another logical dealer also has had few that he lists (the one exception was the HMMH that was discussed long ago in this thread).

The dealer I recently bought my 1300 from in NH has two SEEs that he recently purchased. One will be on sale at some point while the other is for his personal use. Both appear mint and expect both were some of the later rebuilds. He has been buying and selling Unimogs for quite awhile but he mostly imports them. He goes to the direct military auctions and has enough background that he can pick the "good ones" and is willing to head home if he doesn't like what he sees. He has been dealing with and working on Unimogs long enough that he knows their weak points and signs of trouble. The trade off is he knows what they are worth and in no rush to sell, thus his prices wont be the lowest. Unfortunately I expect he is the very rare exception and most buyers like myself went in without a clue and are learning as we go.

I expect the market for SEEs is going to be getting pretty rough once the military inventory is cleaned out. There are going to be a lot of junks that folks are going try to offload and they are going to pull down the market prices for the few rare good ones that folks care to sell. I expect those with good ones are going to hold onto them rather than compete with the junk.

The one thing I keep is mind is despite some design compromises when a SEE gets to the reliable point, its pretty amazing what they can do for the price. Folks with far more experience with crawler loaders who have used mine have commented that the hydraulics run like a brand new machine. When I look what I paid compared to similar units for sale in the area I had choice of a SEE or a 25 year old beat up second or third owner Case or Cat that was so worn out the owner couldn't justify spending any more money on it. I expect those rigs would be even more unreliable and require just as many expensive parts to keep running.

It does sound like you have the right background and attitude to ultimately deal with a SEE so keep trying and expect to possibly burn up a few miles driving to look at SEEs for sale.
 

rtrask

Well-known member
342
251
63
Location
San Luis Valley, Colorado
You may be able to live without the doghouse if you have very effective hearing protection.

My advice for jump starting the SEE once it arrives is don't. Look things over and check fluids before any starting attempts.
Then, jump starting a 24 Volt system is the same as with 12 Volts, except that you need two batteries and two sets of jumper cables.
Definitely a full lubricant change out and investigation of what come out of the drains is step one. If the rig will start and run, you may want to hold off on messing with the fuel system (for now). If the air pressure comes up great but if it doesn't, it may be worth hooking up a temporary supply from another source. One trick I realized recently is you can cut your air system diagnosis time somewhat by pushing in the emergency air system valve (large round button on the center console) this cuts out the trailer braking system that you can deal with later. Once you have air, drain the air tanks multiple times or even better remove them and the drain valve and clean them out. Its almost a guarantee that the air system is crapped up due to poor design and many of the fancy systems only work with adequate air delivered to the them.
Beat me over the head enough times with the same information, and eventually it will get through. I will follow your and peakbagger's advice. I will try to get the shipper to roll it off the trailer rather than drive it. It is sound advice, and I know in my heart it is the right thing to do. The alternator belt is gone, so no water pump circulation, so that needs to be taken care of too. I never intended to go further than the 25 yards of so to where I will tear into it.

The hard part of this is not the patience, but the time that I have to respond to any GP if it does not match the inspection report. GP says that you have to contact them with in one business day of receiving the FLU to resolve disputes. If it is delivered on Friday and I have the weekend to work, I may be able to get enough done to have it ready, but ready or not I need to verify that the engine starts and the transmission is minimally functional. Unless it is all just an outright lie, they have already done those things, and me repeating the process should not do additional damage.

If the dog house is missing, what is the availability of a replacement?
 
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rtrask

Well-known member
342
251
63
Location
San Luis Valley, Colorado
I recently described buying a direct surplus SEE sight unseen as buying a lottery ticket. I "bought" one of those tickets and it turned out pretty well but I did a lot of homework.
That was directed at me :D

...
The one thing I keep is mind is despite some design compromises when a SEE gets to the reliable point, its pretty amazing what they can do for the price. Folks with far more experience with crawler loaders who have used mine have commented that the hydraulics run like a brand new machine. When I look what I paid compared to similar units for sale in the area I had choice of a SEE or a 25 year old beat up second or third owner Case or Cat that was so worn out the owner couldn't justify spending any more money on it. I expect those rigs would be even more unreliable and require just as many expensive parts to keep running. ...
I don't know if I did enough of my home work, or not (I suspect not). I have been looking the SEE, and other wheeled front end loader / backhoes for about 4 months, and ultimately came to the same conclusion as you did that for the price it was likely my best option. I reached that conclusion after looking at similar vintage case/cat/john deer back hoes with less power for twice what I paid, and probably a similar litany of issues. My conclusion was that by being willing to put a year's effort and parts into it I would have a functional machine for the growing list of projects I have.

One way or another I have bought the ticket and I am buckled up for the ride. I will get the due bil this week.
 

The FLU farm

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
3,338
1,319
113
Location
The actual midwest, NM.
I expect the market for SEEs is going to be getting pretty rough once the military inventory is cleaned out. There are going to be a lot of junks that folks are going try to offload and they are going to pull down the market prices for the few rare good ones that folks care to sell. I expect those with good ones are going to hold onto them rather than compete with the junk.

The one thing I keep is mind is despite some design compromises when a SEE gets to the reliable point, its pretty amazing what they can do for the price. Folks with far more experience with crawler loaders who have used mine have commented that the hydraulics run like a brand new machine. When I look what I paid compared to similar units for sale in the area I had choice of a SEE or a 25 year old beat up second or third owner Case or Cat that was so worn out the owner couldn't justify spending any more money on it. I expect those rigs would be even more unreliable and require just as many expensive parts to keep running.
I think that the wildcard in the FLU market is the people (the majority?) who buy them to get a Unimog, not to get a FLU.
For example, how else would one explain the recent sale of a SEE with two pulled-apart loader cylinders, and one of the bucket pivot points partially ripped off the loader arm?
That was in addition to all the usual ailments of current SEEs on GP, yet it brought over $7,000.
Since I'm looking for a parts car I was eyeballing that one, thinking that even if it goes up to $2,000, it could be worth it. That's because while I want a loader, I won't need the curl function, and the ends of the loader arms would be modified anyway. Still, the one really bad hydraulic hose and some other issues made me less than enthusiastic about it.

My suspicion is that the reason someone paid over $1,000 more for this particular unit than I paid for what turned out to be my best SEE is that they couldn't care less about the loader. Either that, or it's popular to get drunk early on Wednesdays.
And I understand why people buy a FLU and then turn in back into a pedestrian Unimog. But I don't like it one bit.
 
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