FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[rtrask]

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I don't think it will separate back to clear oil and clear water. My opinion only, but in the 300 gallon tank on the Pengo that I mentioned before, draining that tank would get several gallons of plain water, then lots of milky white AW32 hydraulic fluid all the way to the last drop as it drained.

Yeah, I don't think it will separate back to clear oil if it is water emulsified in the oil. What I was thinking is that if it was air as FLU Farm said, I would expect it would. Even that might not happen, but I think it would be more likely.

 

[rtrask]

As to how water got in, I have a theory on that. As I said the dipper cylinder has been leaking fluid and I am replacing the seals when I pulled it the seals in the gland nut were in terrible shape, and came out in small pieces. I was amazed that cylinder was not leaking worse than it was. There was a lot of rust inside the gland nut . It took several hours to get it cleaned up. For most of winter 2020 - spring 2021 I had it with the boom up and the dipper cylinder fully extended on the ring ready to be stowed, but not stowed. I also have a slow leak on one of the stabilizers. I think the fluid leaked down s bit providing space, and the water channeled along the dipper rod to the gland nut and leaked in. I realize that it would be a slow process as not that much water would be getting in, but given enough time it would add up.

Anyway it probably does not matter so much how it got is as it matters that it is there.

 

[The FLU farm]

What I was thinking is that if it was air as FLU Farm said, I would expect it would. Even that might not happen, but I think it would be more likely.

All I have to do is shut the engine off for maybe five minutes (since in my case it's the front system) and the fluid goes back to normal.
Although, this last time I didn't even do that. Whatever was going to leak out already had.

 

[glcaines]

I have never had anything like that happen with my FLU. I have used both the loader and backhoe heavily in both hot summer weather and cold down to the mid-20s as well as some work with the hydraulic tools. Possibly the only difference is that I have 10 weight non-detergent motor oil motor oil in mine and not hydraulic fluid. When received from the Army, mine had the 10 weight motor oil in it. I have never changed out the oil, I have only topped it off as it was slightly low when I received the FLU. I have never seen any leaks anywhere on the hydraulic system, or anywhere else on the FLU for that matter.

 

[The FLU farm]

I have never had anything like that happen with my FLU. I have used both the loader and backhoe heavily in both hot summer weather and cold down to the mid-20s as well as some work with the hydraulic tools.

Not sure if I ever operated that one at around -20, but it seems that it can start foaming at around -10.

In the rear, the outrigger cylinders leak, and have ever since they were subjected to some serious mud immersion, but the rear system has never acted up. In the front, there's a little leakage at the quick disconnects.

Anyway, that's the only one that has ever had aerated fluid out of all six FLUs, and all of them have AW-32 in them.

 

[The FLU farm]

Oh, and there's one thing I'll do my best to remember for next time I drive that one in -10 temps, or less.
Instead of raising the loader and driving off within a few seconds of starting the engine, I'll let it run for a minute or two first.

After all, the fluid (whether SAE 10 or AW-32) isn't all that free flowing at those temps, so even at only 800 rpm it just can't flow through the lines as it should. It's been fairly warm here recently, not even in the negatives at night, so it may be a while before I find out if it does make a difference.

 

[Speedwoble]

Oh, and there's one thing I'll do my best to remember for next time I drive that one in -10 temps, or less.
Instead of raising the loader and driving off within a few seconds of starting the engine, I'll let it run for a minute or two first.

After all, the fluid (whether SAE 10 or AW-32) isn't all that free flowing at those temps, so even at only 800 rpm it just can't flow through the lines as it should. It's been fairly warm here recently, not even in the negatives at night, so it may be a while before I find out if it does make a difference.

Even at 70F, it takes me 5-10 seconds to get engine oil pressure on the Flu. Reminds me of a Deuce and a half. How soon do you get engine oil pressure?

 

[glcaines]

Even at 70F, it takes me 5-10 seconds to get engine oil pressure on the Flu. Reminds me of a Deuce and a half. How soon do you get engine oil pressure?

Normally around 4 - 5 seconds, regardless of temp.

 

[Migginsbros]

Late. 3 to7 seconds. But Engine sounds good. But every time we think.... man .. it´s long.

 

[The FLU farm]

Yes, it does indeed take a while for the gauge to show pressure. At least as long as it does to lift the loader and get the trans in gear.

But like Migginsbros pointed out, it sure sounds like the engine has oil pressure even though the gauge isn't showing it yet.
In the beginning it felt scary to sit there and wait a small eternity for the needle to move.

 

[rtrask]

Yes, it does indeed take a while for the gauge to show pressure. At least as long as it does to lift the loader and get the trans in gear.

But like Migginsbros pointed out, it sure sounds like the engine has oil pressure even though the gauge isn't showing it yet.
In the beginning it felt scary to sit there and wait a small eternity for the needle to move.

I replaced my sending unit, and I think I have a grounding issue, because sometimes the gauge drops to 0 and I am sure it still has good pressure YATF yet another thing to fix

 

[Mullaney]

I replaced my sending unit, and I think I have a grounding issue, because sometimes the gauge drops to 0 and I am sure it still has good pressure YATF yet another thing to fix

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Ya know, sometimes when chasing a low voltage ground issue - it is worth sacrificing a piece of 14 gauge wire. Take a long piece of wire, and in this case attach the wire to one of the screws on the sending unit. Take the other end and route it directly to the battery and connect it there. Ride it around for a few days and if the problem goes away, you know for sure that it is a grounding issue.

I keep a coil of that wire in all my trucks specifically for that purpose.
Couple of bucks spent.
Couple of hours less trying to be sure what the problem really is.
Pretty cheap way to do PD without pulling your hair out...

 

[rtrask]

This is a picture of the hydraulic fluid after I pulled the rod out of dipper cylinder. Clearly the situation is not good. I think I have no option, but to drain the fluid, and put new in. I have not been able to find any documentation on the procedure to drain it. Admittedly I haven't done an exhaustive search. Do any of you know the correct procedure?



I know there are places that will flush it, but I am sure it will be expensive and I will have to figure out how to get it there and back.

If I try and do it myself, this is what I have been thinking. I will try I and put the cylinders in positions where the lowest part of the cylinder will have the bulk of the fluid. Then drain out the main tank, and disconnect the hoses, and drain the cylinders. Then the hoses from the pump. Possibly then put the intake line in some kind of container to try to flush it out. I am less certain of where to go from there. I don't want to contaminate the new fluid, but what level of flushing will be good enough.

I don't know know as FLU Farm says, I have a habit of over thinking things, but I would like your feed back on what my next steps should be.

 

[The FLU farm]

When I change the fluid, first I retract as many cylinders as far as possible, then drain the tank.

In your case I'd run the hydraulics for a little bit, then repeat the procedure. After all, hydraulic fluid is a lot cheaper than the parts it's operating in. And much easier to change.

 

[Migginsbros]

I think you can´t drain all the Water/oil emulsion out of every hose of the system. So it´s like FluFarm advises it´s good to change the oil few times after operating the whole system. Cylinders, tool hoses, oil cooler. Like a hydraulic brake system, you have to flush it.

 

[Mullaney]

I think you can´t drain all the Water/oil emulsion out of every hose of the system. So it´s like FluFarm advises it´s good to change the oil few times after operating the whole system. Cylinders, tool hoses, oil cooler. Like a hydraulic brake system, you have to flush it.

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There is no reason to completely fill the tank on these flush fills either. Maybe 10 gallons. Could be 5 so long as you are just exercising the cylinders and not trying to work it hard. No need to waste any more fluid than you have to...

 

[rtrask]

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There is no reason to completely fill the tank on these flush fills either. Maybe 10 gallons. Could be 5 so long as you are just exercising the cylinders and not trying to work it hard. No need to waste any more fluid than you have to...

Thanks for the tip, that will save a lot of money.

 

[Mullaney]

Thanks for the tip, that will save a lot of money.

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Just happened to think about it...

Guessing there is a filter in there somewhere? You might want to pull that if it has one. You might get rid of more water that way on the first "flush fill".

If it isn't a paper cartridge type filter, maybe it is a metal strainer and that could be washed out? Less surface area to collect milky fluid was the goal.

 

[The FLU farm]

It's just a strainer. But a very expensive one.

 

[Mullaney]

It's just a strainer. But a very expensive one.

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Well good! That will save you some bucks. Pull that baby and give it a good washing. Then when you drain the oil, put it back and let the oil circulate like was already discussed.

No more in the tank that you have to have - and sadly - like the instructions on the back of a shampoo bottle "lather, rinse and repeat". Hopefully not lather of course, but you should see improvement after the second time or so.