Fmtv vs unimog

[Mercunimog404]

The list of opinions goes on, nothing more. Unlike you I don't have the hubris to say either is better because it is just an opinion. Saying something over and over don't make it so.

Unfortunately the truth hurts. What makes an m35 better than say a 1/2 dodge?

 

[patracy]

Maybe you should read the TMs. Oh wait I mean maybe research for yourself.

Besides actually being in the military unlike you and working on the truck and owning a mog (granted it's a 404) and having been around a 1300 and from the mouth of the manufacturer on both. It should suffice.

I've actually searched the TM's. There's no mention of the unimog in the LMTV/FMTV TM's, nor is there any mention of the LMTV or FMTV in the unimog related TMs.

It's no secret I've never been enlisted. Unfortunately uncle sam doesn't care for individuals whom have extra hardware in their extremities as well as being flat footed. (I've tried to enlist twice) Not sure how my enlistment or lack of it has any bearing in the questioning though? The original question was merely if an official comparison exists. I will infer that only opinion exists in this case.

 

[Triple C]

Well the original question was, "price, reliability, ease of maintenance, and parts availability." Maybe I missed it, where does "Cool" fit there? Should actually be kind of easy to establish some of these. I haven't looked extensively but probably most would agree that the price of the LMTV/FMTV is on average, higher than a Mog. Reliability - that will be argued forever. Ease of maintenance? If anecdotal information works, all you hear about is how hard the mogs are to work on. Parts availability should hands down go to the LMTV/FMTV shouldn't it?

 

[Mercunimog404]

I've actually searched the TM's. There's no mention of the unimog in the LMTV/FMTV TM's, nor is there any mention of the LMTV or FMTV in the unimog related TMs.

It's no secret I've never been enlisted. Unfortunately uncle sam doesn't care for individuals whom have extra hardware in their extremities as well as being flat footed. (I've tried to enlist twice) Not sure how my enlistment or lack of it has any bearing in the questioning though? The original question was merely if an official comparison exists. I will infer that only opinion exists in this case.

It was sarcastic. You guys are the first to tell people to research. So I'm telling you to research.

It has bearing because I actually have experience on both. Being sae qualified is irrelevant. The OP said nothing about is there an official comparison.

 

[Mercunimog404]

Well the original question was, "price, reliability, ease of maintenance, and parts availability." Maybe I missed it, where does "Cool" fit there? Should actually be kind of easy to establish some of these. I haven't looked extensively but probably most would agree that the price of the LMTV/FMTV is on average, higher than a Mog. Reliability - that will be argued forever. Ease of maintenance? If anecdotal information works, all you hear about is how hard the mogs are to work on. Parts availability should hands down go to the LMTV/FMTV shouldn't it?

If you didn't notice I also through in opinion in my statement. Pretty sure cool factor is opinion. The maintenance comment is from lack of experience once again. 1300 are not hard to work on. Parts availability is easy. Look on the Internet. Lots of parts suppliers out there.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Well he didn't say a 404 did he?

This is correct, he didn't.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Unimog+U1300+Specs

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=LMTV+Specs

He also didn't say LMTV which you provided the specs on. Try that again with the FMTV family and you will find that at least one of your quotes "Carry more weight" is completely inaccurate. I like how you slipped in the biggest baddest Unimog with the punyest FMTV. Yup, apples and oranges for sure!

 

[Triple C]

Yep, I got that, I think they are pretty cool too (also my opinion.) Unlike you, I haven't worked on any of them - and unlike you, I don't care much for COE, get to the wreck to darn fast. The maintenance comment was and is, anecdotal information (which was intended to suggest that there probably isn't any good comparisons available - but that probably wasn't clear.) BUT, there are two things that while also anecdotal, I THINK is pretty easily defended. First, while there may well be a lot of parts available for the Mog's I doubt seriously it can compare to the parts availability of a current military vehicle. Second, the prices are pretty easy to determine. I do agree with an earlier post though, it depends on what you are using said vehicle for. If I want to carry 10 tons of gravel I don't want the Mog. Off road, every thing I read they are good - depends on the use but going to the original OP's questions......Not sure how much of that has been discussed.

 

[DSD277]

Apple and oranges is the best comparison. I've had both. The 1300 SBU Mog is a smaller lighter truck. From memory, the 1300 is roughly 217" x 92" footprint and approx 12k lbs empty. The M1078 is 253" x 96" and almost 18k lbs.. GVW for the 1300 is around 17k lbs and the civilian version of the LMTV is 33K ( forget the 2 1/2 ton offroad rating)
130 horse engine against 225, 8 speed manual vs 7 speed auto. 1300 will avg better than 12 mpg against 6 rated for the FMTV. SBUs have air over hydraulic disc brakes, FMTVs, air drum brakes. The bed of the Mog, 10'6" against 12'. What you want to do with a truck dictate what truck is better for an application. And technically, a Mog is not a forward control vehicle, the driver sits behind the front axle on a Mog.
Off the top of my head, a Mercedes 1017 and some Man's and some other Euro FC's would make even a fairer comparison. Even the original Steyr 12M18 would fall into the mix, as it too though the footprint as a LMTV is lighter and powered by a lower hp engine and manual gearbox.

Don't even throw a 404 or 416 into the comparison. Watermelons and oranges.

 

[sparkylisle]

sorry for the confusion, I should have said a U1200 vs FMTV 1078.

 

[DSD277]

sorry for the confusion, I should have said a U1200 vs FMTV 1078.

A 1200 is a tractor . The SBU series all have the same basic cab and the number roughly equals to engine hp and European usually match HP to capacity. 1200 is a swb vs the typical 1300(L) is lwb and 1250 is a lwb version. Actual numbering within the SBU series can be confusing and complicated. SBUs #'s went from 1000 (roughly 100hp, low payload) to 2450 (?, I think was the heaviest) which is a monster when set next to a 1000 . SBU parts are expensive. Working on them is not as easy as a LMTV, you have a 5lb box with 15 lbs of crap stuck in it. I loved to work on my M1094, pretty much everything is accessible. The SBU depends highly on vacuum operated systems and as such, there is a ton of vacuum lines. A cab tilt system was not part of the basic fit to the SBU and needs to be purchase or made ($$$, as is everything else).
The engine and trans in the SBU's are orphan with a driveshaft between them. A used OD for a SBU was well over $5000 back in '07, when you could find one.

I could go on with pros and cons, but it comes down to what you want one for. I'm a big fan of FCs. I've had/have Haflingers, Pinzgauers, 1300 Unimog, FMTV, LR101 and Supacat ATMP ( I do sit over the front axle ).

 

[tennmogger]

This thread just shows how comparisons between rather exotic vehicles is not always possible. We are on this SS site because we like something different, otherwise we'd all be driving basic Ford/Chev/Dodge. If we rule out performance and cool factor (and all the other intangibles NOT listed in the OP's request) it'd be a dull world.

FMTV's are current conflict vehicles (this forum). Proper comparison would be the U-5000 Unimog, current military production. Even the U-1300L was last built 25 years ago (just happens to be latest model that can be imported).

If performance and coolness are not included, I'd go with the FMTV, whichever variety. There should be a steady supply of used ones and even NOS parts as the series gets dumped, as they will eventually. We have no Unimog graveyards on this continent and the number of U-5000's over here could be counted on one finger, and Arnold had to call it a U-1300 to get it into the country! There is no comparison...that's my opinion.

Sparkylisle, come out to Oliver Springs the last weekend of May (Thursday the 29th through June 1) to the Southeast Mogfest and see what Unimog is all about. Windrock Park is where we will be congregating.

Bob

 

[DSD277]

Ah, come on Bob, I know you like watermelon and oranges and all the rest that makes up the fruit salad.

Everybody wants to compare everything and like something else, has an opinion... I have been told mine was big.

An interesting thing even with the FMTVs, there has been engine changes to make them more environment friendly, and electronic are on the latest ones that wasn't on them on in the '90s. The vast majority of S&S/BAE FMTVs don't look at all like the current ones, nor does the engine and I am assuming is no longer the 3070 transmission.

I can say I do like the FMTV and found it fun to work on, and for me, I wish mine was a LMTV because the size does matter.

Sparkylisle, to be a bit off topic, if you are looking for something a bit smaller and easier to drive and park, look at a Pinzgauer. more road friendly than some of the other FC's. All these trucks can be fun to own and operate, just be prepared for tradeoffs with size, power, speed and cost of parts... typically the more the unique, the more the expense

Dave

 

[doghead]

I like fruit salad!

 

[DSD277]

I like fruit salad!

Just don't sneak in any veggies!

 

[gimpyrobb]

I like fruit salad!

I'm partial to "tater salad"!

 

[upfront]

It's subjective

I've always liked a COE design and I'm curious how the 2 vehicles compare to each other as far as price, reliability, ease of maintenance, and parts availability.

Such a heated subject I hate to weigh in but......
For what my opinion is worth. A U5000 and the U500 are a better comparison to the FMTV than the old SBU class (The old U1300 is the new U5000) same truck with some light changes including a much needed heavier GVW options

But for the sake of the discussion the U500 is the only one that has been imported into the USA in recent years, so lets look at that.

U500 is hands down the better service/parts outside the USA
FMTV is hands down the better service/parts inside the USA

U500 260 to 280 HP year dependent
FMTV 300+ Cat or Cummins

U500 proprietary transmission 8 gears utilized at up to 3 gear ranges
FMTV Allison 7 gears 1 range

U500 Locking front, center and rear diffs
FMTV locking diff not standard but possible on rear

U500 22 inches ground clearance depending on tires (w/395's)
FMTV 12 inches depending on tires (w/395's)

U500 coil springs very flexible frame for better off road but with a body roll
FMTV leaf springs stiffer frame better to carry a load off road

U500 Price new depending on options not available in USA now (europe) $180,000.USD
FMTV 2012 BAE $180,000. USD prior to dumping the price at the end

U500 creature comforts. 16 way air seats. Cruise,electric windows,heated windshield,etc
FMTV cold war interior but functional

U500 4 inches narrower but 6 inches higher to top of cab
FMTV 6 inches shorter at top of cab but 4 inches wider

U500 Cab corrosion resistant fiberglass composite body with kevlar in places for strength.
FMTV corrosion possible steel cab (more noise and vibration)

BAE licensed the FMTV cab from Styer but everything else is all USA with more power, more strength,etc, than the old Styer the cab is known for.

In my opinion the
U500 is a precision piece of equipment known in all the militaries but ours
FMTV is a bit sloppy but in the unstoppable resourceful way(not really known outside the USA)

SO.....?

 

[Triple C]

Well done upfront!

 

[sparkylisle]

Sparkylisle, to be a bit off topic, if you are looking for something a bit smaller and easier to drive and park, look at a Pinzgauer. more road friendly than some of the other FC's. All these trucks can be fun to own and operate, just be prepared for tradeoffs with size, power, speed and cost of parts... typically the more the unique, the more the expense

Dave[/QUOTE]

I had a 1970 duece with the non-turbo multifuel and was dis-appointed with the lack of power. I'm 6'1" tall, and I've sat in both a Pinzgauer and a unimog 404 and found the cab to be too small. I would be using the truck for hauling gravel, firewood, and hay. As much as I like the COE design of the FMTV, it looks like the best buy for what I need would be a early 90's M900 series with the cummins 8.3.

 

[Derrickl112]

.

 

[PaFarmer]

I am 6'6", I don't fit well in my 404 Mog, M35s or 818, but I think the 939 trucks are comfortable in the cab. There is certainly enough leg room. For the money, they are hard to beat, especially if you intend to use it. I will buy a FMTV sometime, and I expect it will be a lot cheaper than the bigger Mogs go for.