Found metal chips in oil, still runs great

[Wildchild467]

I'm wondering what the injection pumps look like when the governor springs let go. After a long trip on the highway (4 hour trip) I heard a ticking sound that sounded a lot more than lose rocker arms. I heard it when I pulled off the highway and stopped at 74M35A2's house which is right close to the highway. I shut the engine down and then fired it back up about 30 seconds later and the sound was gone. I adjusted the valved and they did not seem out of spec much at all... only a thousandth or two. I'm wondering if that ticking was the governor coming back from highway speed and the springs were not there. To pull the weights back in, or something like that? It was hard to tell where the ticking sound was coming from so that's why I didn't want to over think it and just adjust the valves.

 

[mobileauto2000]

I only have a closeup picture of the crack. I'll take more tomorrow morning. Was side tracked Friday. Sorry.

 

[Wildchild467]

i would check to see what metal the chips are, i don't see where you say and it really would narrow down what is happening. when the front pump cover plate is off you can check the cam for end play as well as the ip. i would replace the ip and take the old one apart for inspection. you could (maybe) drive it another 1000 miles and see how much metal it makes if any.

How would I check to see what metal it is exactly? It appeared to be aluminum because of th color and non magnetic. It has been oily under the injection pump lately. I'll have to wipe it down real good and inspect the area to see if I see any cracks. If I see anything I would almost put my money on that I found the problem. Good thing about that is I can work on the injection pump on the bench. I'm hoping that is what it is. And when I pull the injection pump off I could inspect the cam for walking in and out from the injection pump gear cover.

 

[Wildchild467]

i would check to see what metal the chips are, i don't see where you say and it really would narrow down what is happening. when the front pump cover plate is off you can check the cam for end play as well as the ip. i would replace the ip and take the old one apart for inspection. you could (maybe) drive it another 1000 miles and see how much metal it makes if any.

How would I check to see what metal it is exactly? It appeared to be aluminum because of th color and non magnetic. It has been oily under the injection pump lately. I'll have to wipe it down real good and inspect the area to see if I see any cracks. If I see anything I would almost put my money on that I found the problem. Good thing about that is I can work on the injection pump on the bench. I'm hoping that is what it is. And when I pull the injection pump off I could inspect the cam for walking in and out from the injection pump gear cover.

 

[Wildchild467]

Oops, I double posted. If a moderator could delete this post and my previous double post I would appreciate it. I tried and did not see where I could delete it. Thank you.

 

[Wildchild467]

I only have a closeup picture of the crack. I'll take more tomorrow morning. Was side tracked Friday. Sorry.


View attachment 511766

Thank you. If you could tell me more about what you were experiencing and what you found I would appreciate it! I think I might have the same problem you did.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Bearing material is also non metallic and can have a brass tint.

 

[mobileauto2000]

Here are more pictures. It dose not show up well in the pictures but you can see where it has gouged inside the aluminum case. That is where my small chips came from.

My truck seemed to run fine until the last spring came apart and the injector pump stopped working.
After installing the new pump it became apparent that the pump had been defective since I bought the truck.

This is just a place to look. Not necessarily what is wrong with yours.

 

[Wildchild467]

Thank you for your pictures Mobileauto2000! The more I think about, this is what makes sense to be the problem with mine.

The two pictures you show looking inside the injection pump... could you definitely see something not right/broken in the injection pump? Did it make a funny noise or not feel right when you spun it by hand after you removed it? Thanks again for your help!

 

[74M35A2]

Come on boner. Grow a set, pull your pump off, and disassemble it. Are you waiting until I finish my bed crane in case you need to pull your engine?

 

[Wildchild467]

Come on boner. Grow a set, pull your pump off, and disassemble it. Are you waiting until I finish my bed crane in case you need to pull your engine?

Relax Sally... I will. I just want to make a good educated decision here. Ill have my injection pump fixed (if that is the problem) and my pop tested injectors in way before you get your bed crane mounted with 4 bolts anyway

 

[74M35A2]

The crane mounts with 8 bolts, but one could just use the 4 you mentioned to pick your silly a$$ up by your belt loops.....and your little pump too!

 

[mobileauto2000]

Thank you for your pictures Mobileauto2000! The more I think about, this is what makes sense to be the problem with mine.

The two pictures you show looking inside the injection pump... could you definitely see something not right/broken in the injection pump? Did it make a funny noise or not feel right when you spun it by hand after you removed it? Thanks again for your help!

When it died I was next to the truck as it was idling. I heard a noise just like you would expect a spring to make as it was ground up.
and it died. I cannot turn the pump by hand now that it is off. There is a spring jammed in the advance unit. I don't remember if the drive gear had slots cut in it, But i am pretty sure it dose. If you pull the IP cover off the timing cover you may be able to look into the oil drain back hole for damage.

 

[Wildchild467]

Well I tore into the Deuce last night. After the many discussions about what could have caused the small aluminum pieces/chips in my oil pan, I was more and more convinced that it must have come from either the injection pump or timing cover. Due to the size and shape of the chips, I was leaning more towards the centrifugal advance portion of the injection pump causing the problem. It has been known for these mechanical advances to come apart in other peoples trucks, so that was definitely a possibility. I also have had high exhaust gas temperatures lately, another symptom of a possible timing issue.

When I pulled the timing gear inspection cover located on the front of the timing cover, I made a discovery. In the small crevice in the front of the cover I found a couple of these small chips (see attached picture). So I know I am in the right area and I can rule out any piston or bearing issues. The timing gear itself looked great. There was not any rubbing on the face of the gear like it would have made contact with the timing cover, so I am ruling the cam shaft “walking” out of the possible causes. Right now I am focused on the injection pump. I will remove that within a couple days and see what I find there.

 

[Wildchild467]

I got the injection pump off just about an hour ago. I pulled the governor housing off and it confirmed my theory of the governor coming apart. What happened was one of the pins that the weights pivot on, same out and rubbed against the case acting like a milling machine kind of. These pins look like they slide in and then take a rivet punch on the other side and just swedge them over. So either this one was not tight and then vibrated itself free over the years, im not sure. So if anybody has a used injection pump they are putting in, it may not be a bad thing to check for. I can see where if the weight broke off it would have caused a mess.

 

[FMJ]

Glad you found the source!
Now fix it. . . .

 

[Wildchild467]

I need parts now! Unfortunately my spare pump will not be here for another week

 

[Woodsplinter]

I got the injection pump off just about an hour ago. I pulled the governor housing off and it confirmed my theory of the governor coming apart. What happened was one of the pins that the weights pivot on, same out and rubbed against the case acting like a milling machine kind of. These pins look like they slide in and then take a rivet punch on the other side and just swedge them over. So either this one was not tight and then vibrated itself free over the years, im not sure. So if anybody has a used injection pump they are putting in, it may not be a bad thing to check for. I can see where if the weight broke off it would have caused a mess.

View attachment 512934

Great detective work! For those of us less learned folks, what exactly are we looking at? I can't get my brain oriented- well, that's another story...

 

[74M35A2]

Glad you found the source!
Now fix it. . . .

No doubt, that's what I'm sayin'.....

 

[oddshot]

I need parts now! Unfortunately my spare pump will not be here for another week

When you consider the other things that could have gone wrong, it looks like you got off pretty light. Good job of finding it.