front half shaft replacement before or after alignment?

[1993]

Dealing with this myself at the moment. All 4 tires are wearing uneven with the outside about 1/4” less tread in the rear and 1/8” less in the front. I can deal with the front and now that I’ve added the winch it’s probably close enough. While I’m in the middle of painting my frame I pulled the large A arm bolts before it got dark last night. Doesn’t look to be too bad of a job with an assortment of impact guns, breaker bars and wrenches. I plan to remove all the rear shims and put all the hardware back together with anti seize to make installation easier as well as removal down the road. I’ll probably do a tape measure or string alignment for the toe since doing this should toe out both tires though I’m not sure by how much.


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hey Carrera911, do you see just shims or are there also plates behind the buckets?
On my truck there is only one layer, maybe slightly less than an 8th inch thick, i'm guessing shims not plates?
but based on the TM diagram there should be BOTH shims and plates (both called "SPACER,PLATE" in the TM), one is slotted the other has bolt holes.
my front doesn't seem to have any of either, yet(like yours?) I can visually see that it is slightly riding more on the outside edge(though not nearly as much as rear).

I've attached pics of the TM page with the shims/plates and some pics of them in my truck.
There is definitely some mud on there(also rain dripping down) but much of what looks like mud is actually a heavy coating of a tan-painted black tar-like substance.

the truck is all tan, except for the wheel wells where the aluminum panels received less "tar"(or it wore off) and the cab which is also still green.
the only rust I've seen has been in a few rare places where the "tar" was worn off.
I did not see this coating on many other trucks when doing my pre-purchase inspection.
Anyways, I'm running off topic. maybe I'll ask what that "tar" is in another thread.
But it makes me hopeful that rust might not be a major factor in bolt removal.

 

[1993]

I have done LOTS of alignments and the shop won’t need any info or specs. When they align it they put sensors on each wheel that read back to the main computer and show positive or negative camber and caster. Then they adjust until each wheel reads within a degree or less of where it should be. The rear should only have camber adjustment and the front will have camber, caster and toe adjustment.

hey dhaumann69166,
if you look at one of the photos in my last response you can see a rear radius rod that is threaded on either end for what looks like rear toe adjustment.

 

[Carrera911]

hey Carrera911, do you see just shims or are there also plates behind the buckets?
On my truck there is only one layer, maybe slightly less than an 8th inch thick, i'm guessing shims not plates?
but based on the TM diagram there should be BOTH shims and plates (both called "SPACER,PLATE" in the TM), one is slotted the other has bolt holes.
my front doesn't seem to have any of either, yet(like yours?) I can visually see that it is slightly riding more on the outside edge(though not nearly as much as rear).

I've attached pics of the TM page with the shims/plates and some pics of them in my truck.
There is definitely some mud on there(also rain dripping down) but much of what looks like mud is actually a heavy coating of a tan-painted black tar-like substance.

the truck is all tan, except for the wheel wells where the aluminum panels received less "tar"(or it wore off) and the cab which is also still green.
the only rust I've seen has been in a few rare places where the "tar" was worn off.
I did not see this coating on many other trucks when doing my pre-purchase inspection.
Anyways, I'm running off topic. maybe I'll ask what that "tar" is in another thread.
But it makes me hopeful that rust might not be a major factor in bolt removal.

View attachment 727513View attachment 727514View attachment 727515

You are correct you only have one plate on the rear without the slots to slide out. Mine has the plate and 2 shims in the rear for about 3/8 thickness. The front has a bunch for about 5/8.

The frame on mine is cleaner than nearly any 89 civilian truck I’ve seen but some rust is starting to pepper through the paint in some places and where sticks and rocks have taken paint off the A arms. I’ve been in the process hitting the loose paint and rust with a wire wheel before primer/ paint. That tar you talk about sounds like undercoating or the military equivalent of it. I’ve read many of the marine trucks came with it on the frame.


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[1993]

You are correct you only have one plate on the rear without the slots to slide out. Mine has the plate and 2 shims in the rear for about 3/8 thickness. The front has a bunch for about 5/8.

The frame on mine is cleaner than nearly any 89 civilian truck I’ve seen but some rust is starting to pepper through the paint in some places and where sticks and rocks have taken paint off the A arms. I’ve been in the process hitting the loose paint and rust with a wire wheel before primer/ paint. That tar you talk about sounds like undercoating or the military equivalent of it. I’ve read many of the marine trucks came with it on the frame.


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how many miles on your truck?
mine looked very sad on auction photos but in my opinion was the best of the 30 i inspected. even a 2003 that was parked near it. i guess i have to just pull those rear plates out. the camber is pretty extreme.
don’t know what to do with the front. no plates or shims, i guess i’ll have to occasionally flip my tires to avoid excessive wear on the outside.
two tires(that probably spent most of their time in the back) have about 10% tread in the outside and 70% in inside.
looking for a good deal on tires.
it is in fact a marine truck, still has all the insignia, they used cheap spray paint to cover the markings and it washed off. i’m keeping it authentic.

 

[Carrera911]

how many miles on your truck?
mine looked very sad on auction photos but in my opinion was the best of the 30 i inspected. even a 2003 that was parked near it. i guess i have to just pull those rear plates out. the camber is pretty extreme.
don’t know what to do with the front. no plates or shims, i guess i’ll have to occasionally flip my tires to avoid excessive wear on the outside.
two tires(that probably spent most of their time in the back) have about 10% tread in the outside and 70% in inside.
looking for a good deal on tires.
it is in fact a marine truck, still has all the insignia, they used cheap spray paint to cover the markings and it washed off. i’m keeping it authentic.

About 30k now 27k 2.5 years ago when I got it. Not sure how much one shim will do to pull the tire in. I know it’s in the TM somewhere but 1/8 in right above the center is maybe 3/8 in at the top of the tire.
The wear on your front tires could be from a toe issue as well but a shop can do that for you at the same rate as a standard car just cranking the turnbuckles.
As far as tires go the only ones I’ve seen relatively easy to source are the standard MT Goodyear. Decent prices I’ve seen are about 150 each for 70% plus tread.
I’ve been looking at options for when these tires wear out and I’m thinking of either stock Hummer H2 wheels or the TreadWright retreads. The Hummer wheels can be had relatively cheap with easy and cheap to source tires. I’m not a huge fan of retreads, I’d never run them on my other vehicles where I cruise at 85+ on the highway. But at $250 each on a vehicle that only does 60 it’s kinda hard to beat. The only new tires I’ve seen that fit are super swampers at 350+ each. I do want to keep the military look of the truck but I mostly got it for off roading and the standard MTs are nothing to brag about performance wise. Another thing to consider is most the ones I’ve seen are from 07-10 which makes them fairly old at this point.


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[1993]

About 30k now 27k 2.5 years ago when I got it. Not sure how much one shim will do to pull the tire in. I know it’s in the TM somewhere but 1/8 in right above the center is maybe 3/8 in at the top of the tire.
The wear on your front tires could be from a toe issue as well but a shop can do that for you at the same rate as a standard car just cranking the turnbuckles.
As far as tires go the only ones I’ve seen relatively easy to source are the standard MT Goodyear. Decent prices I’ve seen are about 150 each for 70% plus tread.
I’ve been looking at options for when these tires wear out and I’m thinking of either stock Hummer H2 wheels or the TreadWright retreads. The Hummer wheels can be had relatively cheap with easy and cheap to source tires. I’m not a huge fan of retreads, I’d never run them on my other vehicles where I cruise at 85+ on the highway. But at $250 each on a vehicle that only does 60 it’s kinda hard to beat. The only new tires I’ve seen that fit are super swampers at 350+ each. I do want to keep the military look of the truck but I mostly got it for off roading and the standard MTs are nothing to brag about performance wise. Another thing to consider is most the ones I’ve seen are from 07-10 which makes them fairly old at this point.


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two years ago i was in touch with someone that had a bunch of bf bajas only a few years old with 98% tread for about $150 each. about $800 for all four shipped with 24 bolt rims. if he still has them it’s probably a great deal but i still can’t seem to get myself to spend $800 on tires right now. if i even still have the right contact info anymore...
i didn’t know these could be retreaded.
my current tires are pretty dry. and when i rotated one of the fronts with the truck jacked just enough to spin, it would rotate freely half the way and stop hard on one side.
could that be from sitting in one spot for too long? the tires do hold air
im trying to keep to the original appearance, baybe 24 bolt if bajas.

the front toe is the worst i’ve ever seen, (except for accident vehicles at the body shop down the road) might be more than 5degrees off.
at 30mph they squeal loud when braking on pavement.
you’re probably right that it could have caused the outside wear on the front tires.
all the steering components seem tight. no delay with steering response. when i hugged the tires and jerked them, the steering wheel immediately moved and i saw no play in any component.
i’m guessing someone hit a big pothole?
actually, at the end of winter some of the potholes in manhattan potentially could do much worse.

 

[Carrera911]

I'd jump on that deal when I have the need for even 70% tread. It could be out of round of flat-spotted from sitting if it grabs on one side.

I've gone over some pretty big rocks and logs off road, much bigger than any pothole I've seen at speeds faster than I probably should have been going. My alignment seems to be holding fine. The tie rod or tie rod end could have been replaced and not tightened properly or even not aligned at all. I'm sure a lot of work on these truck was pretty half a**ed, especially as they came closer to retirement and the mechanics started caring less.

 

[1993]

I'd jump on that deal when I have the need for even 70% tread. It could be out of round of flat-spotted from sitting if it grabs on one side.

I've gone over some pretty big rocks and logs off road, much bigger than any pothole I've seen at speeds faster than I probably should have been going. My alignment seems to be holding fine. The tie rod or tie rod end could have been replaced and not tightened properly or even not aligned at all. I'm sure a lot of work on these truck was pretty half a**ed, especially as they came closer to retirement and the mechanics started caring less.

Yup, tie rod ends do look replaced, they don't have that tar coating, I'm hoping your guess is right.

it's an internal struggle, between buying tires and all the other thing that are probably more important like building materials for my workshop/garage/apartment. building it myself(literally) so not much time for income work and plenty of spending. 2,400sq ft. timberframe.
But I might try to find that contact this week since It seems like it's not just me that thinks its a good deal
However, prices might be up since there's a lot more customers on the road from two years ago..

 

[teteacher101]

Feltz Tire here in WI usually has a large selection of Humvee tires. I got mine there last spring for $100 each an they were like new. Price of shipping would suck though.

 

[1993]

Feltz Tire here in WI usually has a large selection of Humvee tires. I got mine there last spring for $100 each an they were like new. Price of shipping would suck though.

yup they do have good prices, i’ve spoken with them. but shipping to NY my be crazy. maybe fastenal...

 

[Milcommoguy]

Toe IN front. Toe OUT rear. Tie rod clamp bolts next to front wheels towards hubs. Shims thin=1.52mm thick=3.04mm. Shim placement and thickness front and or rear bucket with relation to control arm interact on camber and caster... and will NOT be equal in any location, front, back, left or right unless your in Las Veags. Also, need to know what tires you are going to run. Different spec's for bias and radials. When done right and everything dialed in you will notice a big difference in rolling resistance due to the big fat tires going in the same direction, at the same time.

I have a take off tire that has ZERO tread on the outer edge and 80% on the inside. Good to go Sgt.

 

[Milcommoguy]

Oh and don't forget the control arm bushings. Loose, worn, split, elongated and all bets are off. Upper and or lower. Lots of variables. Big pry bar in the right place can point to issues not seen or can be man-handled.