Fuel-burning heater problems

[cbvet]

I need some help, guys.
Need to get a heater in my most recent Deuce.
I'm tired, & just can't figure out what is probably a simple problem.
I have a SouthWind model 10530A24, 30,000 btu heater in brand new condition.
NSN is 2540-00-113-4180.
I've got all the components hooked up on my test "bench".
When I try to start it the usual way, pushing the toggle to "start", the blower runs & the ignitor gets hot & smokes, but the heater doesn't light. After I release the switch some smoke comes out around the ignitor. I'm sure it's not getting fuel.
Here's what I've figured out:
If I jump 24 volts to wire B, which goes to the left solenoid (looking from the end where the fuel connects), the amber light on the control box comes on immediately, & the heater lights in about 45 seconds. I can then disconnect the jumper & the heater runs great as long as it's set on High. About 235 degree air at 12" from heater.
If I switch the heater to low, the flame goes out & it shuts down.

It seems like I should be getting 24 volts to wire B (left solenoid) when the start switch is toggled, but I don't.
And although hot-wiring it allows the heater to ignite, the amber light coming on immediately isn't right.

And why does it go out when I switch to Low?

I've tried two different control boxes & three different cable assemblies.

Could sure use some ideas. I'll work on it again in the AM.

Thanks,
Eric
CBVET

 

[rosco]

Its been a while since I played with them. Mostly the gasoline ones. If I had your symptoms, on a gas heater, I would guess the solenoid is dirty & or faulty. The orfices in them are very tiny & if contaminated, can restrict fuel. That would be my guess, why it doesn't run on the low setting. On some of the old solenoids, you can take them apart (wether your supposed to or not), and clean them. there are some fine screens in them. Then maybe you can jump wire it & see if it reacts correctly.

As for the wire problem.... I would tackle that, after I got it to run on low. The other thought, is that somebody has crossed some wires. I never had a test stand to work with, so I just had to start trouble shooting the system - learning how it works. The test stand was supposed to give the answers to Folks, without them having to understand how the heater worked. Not running on low, says there is no fuel/not enough fuel- Why? Is the air temp on high, within "spec"? Guess those are my thoughts for now. Good Luck

Lee in Alaska

 

[cranetruck]

Eric, do you have a wiring diagram? If not, get me you email address and I'll send you one.

The "B" wire goes to the "Restriction" solenoid and opens to max fuel ("HI") when energized. With no power to it, it is in "LO" mode and closed, so fuel is only supplied by the "S" solenoid needle valve.

The pilot lamp should only come on when the flame switch is hot enough and opens (transfers operation from control box to heater circuitry). You are bypassing it with your jumper lead somehow.

I have measured 260°F air temp about 6 inches from the heater, so your reading is okay, IMHO.

I would suggest that you check the calibration of the control valve, I posted the procedure and images several months ago.

 

[mangus580]

Bjorn, before he messes with the adjustment... dont you think it might be a good idea to just take the valve apart and clean it? Mine was sticking something bad... I messed with the adjustment long before I just pulled apart and cleaned it. Wish I hadnt, as it was probably set right! It doesnt need to be changed as part of cleaning it.

 

[cranetruck]

Agreed, you don't want to make adjustments if not needed. I would only suggest that the fuel flow is confirmed to begin with, if it isn't good then do the cleaning bit.

 

[cbvet]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I'm sure it's possible there are crossed wires or something plugged, but these are all new components.
I have a manual for a 978 heater somewhere, but can't find it.
So, when I jumper 24 volts to the B wire, I'm actually opening the Hi fuel flow & that's what it's igniting on?
Then if working correctly, when toggle is pushed to start, shouldn't there instead be 24v to the other solenoid allowing fuel for ignition? That can't happen, as that is fed from the overheat switch, which has no power until the unit is running.
Okay, so going back to the initial problem of not lighting.
It's obviously not getting fuel to ignite. Where does that fuel come from? I assume a solenoid has to be energized & open to allow fuel for ignition? Which solenoid? Right or left from the fuel connection end? And where should that power come from?
I'm trying to figure out whether I have a solenoid which is not getting power to open, whether I have a bad solenoid that won't open, or whether something is plugged up?

Thanks again
Pm sent to Bjorn for schematic.
Eric
CBVET

 

[cranetruck]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I'm sure it's possible there are crossed wires or something plugged, but these are all new components.
I have a manual for a 978 heater somewhere, but can't find it.
So, when I jumper 24 volts to the B wire, I'm actually opening the Hi fuel flow & that's what it's igniting on?
Then if working correctly, when toggle is pushed to start, shouldn't there instead be 24v to the other solenoid allowing fuel for ignition? .....

I'm not familiar with the 978 model, so I may be on slippery ice here.

"The other solenoid" (the "S") must always be open for fuel to flow. The overheat switch is closed unless an overheat condition exists.

Schematic sent.

 

[cbvet]

Bjorn,
As stated in my first post, I have a SouthWind model 10530A24, 30,000 btu heater in brand
new condition.
NSN is 2540-00-113-4180
I was just referring to the 978 because that's the manual I have.

You say the "S" solenoid must always be open for fuel flow. Does fuel have to come through that solenoid for ignition? Is that a normally open or normally closed solenoid? In other words, does it have to have power to open?
I only get power to it when the heater is running.

Repeating earlier post:

"It's obviously not getting fuel to ignite. Where does that fuel come from? I assume a solenoid has to be energized & open to allow fuel for ignition? Which solenoid? Right or left from the fuel connection end? And where should that power come from?
I'm trying to figure out whether I have a solenoid which is not getting power to open, whether I have a bad solenoid that won't open, or whether something is plugged up?"

Thanks for the schematic. Portions of it are similar to what I have.

Eric

 

[cranetruck]

The "S" solenoid must be open (have power to it) for fuel to flow. When unit shuts down, it closes and the heater goes thru the purge cycle to cleanse itself of any left over fuel.

 

[cbvet]

Well, I put the second heater on my test "bench" to see what would happen. Same control box & cable used. Same model heater.
Fired-up after about 75 seconds, putting out lots of heat. Then shut itself down after about 45 seconds.
Restarts with start switch real quick, but shuts down again.
I just don't have the time to really figure these things out right now.
I guess I may have to put a hot water heater in for now. I'm just sure it won't be enough heat with the soft top cab.
But thanks for the help guys!
Eric
CBVET

 

[mangus580]

Eric... Mine was brand new (NOS heater kit) when I put it in. I still had to clean the valve.... It doesnt take long to do it... get a can of carb cleaner, take the valve off, and just take it apart carefully on a clean bench. There isnt much to it.

 

[cbvet]

Thanks Mangus.
I may try cleaning one of the control valves & see what happens.
I still have a new Benmar coolant heater to test too. Don't know if I'll use it or not.
Eric

 

[cbvet]

Had a little time this morning, so I took the fuel control valve off the new heater. I was surprised at the amount of fine crud in it, considering I've only used fresh kerosene in my testing.
Within the next couple of days I'll try to clean it up & test it.
I'll let you know how that works out.
Eric
CBVET

 

[cbvet]

Hooray!
Got home a little earlier today & cleaned the fuel control valve for one heater. The one that wouldn't ignite unless I hotwired wire B.
Took about a minute to start the first time. Ran fine for several minutes on both High & Low settings before I shut it off.
You know, I saw no particles in it that looked like they could cause trouble, but I was sure wrong.
NOTE: Use a good fuel filter on these heaters.

Thanks again for all the advice guys,
Eric
CBVET

 

[mangus580]

I dont think it was particles in my case... just gummed up.

 

[Wildchild467]

I am trying to get my heater to light on my M109A3 and its not working. i am getting fuel i believe because i had some run out my exhaust pipe. Im not actually sure what the problem is but i think its the flame detector switch... maybe. the unit appears to be brand new, so i wouldnt think there would be a problem with that.... Except when i turn the 24 or 115 power supply on the blower will run even with the heater switch on off. When i push the switch down to start, the pump starts pumping but i dont think the ignitor coil is getting any power. i tried reading the TM's to troubleshoot it but its all confusing and so far i believe its either the flame detector or something in the control unit. I hear a clicking sound comming from the unit when i turn the switch to start also. I checked the overheat switch and it is closed, so that is good.

Back to the flame dectector switch, i tried adjusting it thinking it was stuck on simulating the heater working where the blower would run and cut power to the ignitor. Im stumped...

 

[Wildchild467]

After reading the TM 9-2320-361-34 about "flame detector switch maintance" i think the micro switch is not switching. when i took the adjustment screw all the way out and tried moving the switch with a small screwdriver, i did not hear any clicking of the microswitch.

That being said, is there anyway i can take the switch apart to service it? I know there isnt a TM for that, but we all know some things can still be fixed.

Could I "hot wire" the heater to make it work with that switch being stuck in that position? then if i want to shut the heater off i could just un plug the fuel pump. does that sound plausable/safe? It would just be a test to see if it works.... at least something to give me some hope. I spent all last night troubleshooting it.

 

[icentropy]

Hi guys, I'm gonna try to piggyback on this thread. I'm looking for an inexpensive diesel heater to install into my Hummer as a cab heater and an aux heater for the shelter i tow behind it and came across a SouthWind model 10530A24 for sale online. There's no other info on it besides that it's in NOS condition and includes all mounting hardware, controls, fuelpump, etc. I know it's 24V but i can work around that. My main concern is with size and plumbing.

Does anyone have the manual or spec sheet for this heater? Or could anyone give me info on weight and dimensions? also a pic of the heater mounted in it's intended location would be awesome. I'm thinking based on pics it might fit mounted inside of one of the toolboxes in my helmet hardtop. then i can vent it to the outside for intake and exhaust and the inside for the heated air.....i think.

 

[icentropy]

Here's a pic of the truck and trailer and one of the toolboxes i think it might fit into. I was thinking i could install a secondary duct hose that i could run to the trailer (once parked of course) for coldweather camping.

again any info on this heater would be appreciated.

 

[nwkswaterfowler]

Just want to thank everyone on this thread. My husband's putting ours in, and it wasn't starting. After using this and another thread to help trouble-shoot, it started within 45s and on high! A crushed o-ring (brand new unit in box) that hadn't aged well was the problem!