Fuel Injection pump shutoff part failure HELP!!!!!!

[KiloBaker]

First, I would like to thank SteelSoldiers for this forum. I have downloaded every tech manual relative to my M35 and have lurked here for a while, reading up on what I think I need to know.
The Deuce I acquired has sat for over a year, and did not start. The batteries replaced, and fuel checked, fuel system bled per tech manual, still no start.
Will run on an ether blast. No fuel at the injectors.
Fuel pump is running, and flowing into the injector pump, nothing coming out.

AGAIN- thank you for the posts on the fuel injector shutoff issue, I printed out the pertinent posts and went to work.

I removed the bolt-cover on the top of the F.I. pump, and placed a stick in the hole, cranked the engine, no movement. I used a lot of penetrating oil and soft taps with a brass punch, and freed the rod. Now it moves up and down.

Here's what I think is the issue- the fuel shutoff arm / pivot assy was stuck as well, and I put a 9/16 wrench on the arm a wriggled it until it 'came free'. Yah. (the chisel pin busted off...)No start, and when I removed the rod / pivot assy, the little 'chisel tip' / pin that rides in the groove is missing, broke off. This is what my question is pertaining to.
I tried to put a small magnetized rod in the hole, and I BELIEVE I saw a chunk of metal on the magnet retrieval tool before it fell off, and into the hay field that the Deuce is sitting in. (the magnetized tool is a small Allen wrench with a refrigerator magnet stuck to the end, high tech huh)

Here's my question- I have a replacement shutoff assembly, but what happens if I assemble the unit with the little chisel tip still inside the unit? It looks like it could contaminate the injector pump and injectors with metal junk.

The engine was cranked over and over, I have no idea where this chunk of metal is or where it can go.

Do I need to disassemble the entire fuel injection pump assembly to get to find this part? From the downloaded tech manuals, (Again, THANKS) It looks like I have to remove the radiator, fabricate a hub wrench tool from 3/8 plate stock, bigger job than I want to do unless necessary... I bought a gasket kit for the F.I. pump just in case...

Pics of the busted part attached, I hope.

Please help, any ideas are appreciated. I am well versed in Mopar big blocks, and all things GM and Ford, but this is new to me, a whole different world...Thanks in advance for the help and my apologies for grammar and misspellings.
My contact info is 724-799-0672 if you want to call. KevinB

 

[derby]

I would pull the Hydraulic head and make sure the button on the bottom is still intact.
When you have it off you can check and fish around for the broken pin.
Any metal in the pump/engine is never a good thing.

Also, it seems that the fuel cut off ring (?) is siezed. in order for that pin to have broken.
How far did you turn it back and forth? it only moves from about 6 o'clock to about 4 o'clock.

It will all work out. This seems to be a common problem with trucks that sit for any length of time.

 

[KiloBaker]

That's it!

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a fuel cut off ring, where is it, and how do I fix it?
I moved that sucker to about 7 o'clock before it 'loosened up'. Dang.
So I just need to remove the 6 injector lines, and the top part of the Hyd head?
I'll do it tomorrow, anything special that I need to know about removing this piece? THANK YOU for this !!

 

[gimpyrobb]

You need to search for "hydraulic head removal" it will save you a big headache later. There are certain alignment marks that need to be lined up in order not to break more parts.

 

[cranetruck]

The part that is missing is probably not "busted", it's loose in the cavity and great care must be exercised when removing the fuel cut-off lever. It must also be precisely aligned when re-installed, part "D" in the image.

Anything that "breaks" in that portion of the IP will end up at the bottom of the housing. You may want to remove the FDC to check the area below it and use a good magnet (one that can't fall off and complicate you problem). The IP housing is all aluminum, btw.

 

[KiloBaker]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is an "FDC" ?

 

[Warthog]

Fuel Density Compensator.

Download this manual and study the parts about the hydrolic head (HH) and the fuel cutoff. The manual is for the LDS motor which is very simular to your LDT motor. They share ALOT of parts. The section you want is paragragh "K" on page 39.

The "ring" they mentioned is the plunger sleev in the picture. It should slide up and down freely. The grayed out sections is the fuel path. The part you have "lost" is the plunger sleeve pin.

 

[KiloBaker]

This is exactly what i was looking for. I owe you a beer!
Thank you!!

 

[derby]

How are You making out?

 

[KiloBaker]

Deuce is being rained on since Wednesday. Gonna be nice tomorrow. I'll post something tomorrow evening
Thanks for your interest!

 

[maahes]

My truck is having the same symptoms, except my fuel cutoff moved freely.
When you took the bolt out of the IP and cranked the engine did fuel come out the hole? When I did I had a 2 inch spout of fuel and couldn't see if the internals were moving up and down. I dont think they are stuck in there because when I took the bolt out I could see it moving down with a slight gurgling sound.
Just wondering if you saw the same or if I may have a different issue.

 

[gimpyrobb]

My truck is having the same symptoms, except my fuel cutoff moved freely.
When you took the bolt out of the IP and cranked the engine did fuel come out the hole? When I did I had a 2 inch spout of fuel and couldn't see if the internals were moving up and down. I dont think they are stuck in there because when I took the bolt out I could see it moving down with a slight gurgling sound.
Just wondering if you saw the same or if I may have a different issue.

When you say the fuel cutoff, are you talking about the cover, or did you remove the cover and check the lever underneath. The cover will move while the lever underneath stays put.
Yes, fuel will spurt out from the center bolt hole when you turn on the power and the in-tank pump starts pumping. You want to have something in there to get an idea of how much that rod moves up and down. I believe it should be just under a quarter inch, not near a pump to check right now.

 

[KiloBaker]

Yes, fuel came out of mine too.

I'm really impressed with the level of knowledge and interest this forum has. THANK YOU

 

[gimpyrobb]

We just hate to see the trucks in-op. We know how good it feels to find the problem and fix it yourself, rather than have some shop do it for you.

 

[KiloBaker]

Well, I was GOING to get into the hayfield and commence the HH removal, but a run in with some corn whiskey made me think that working now would escalate the probability of disaster tenfold.
So I did the prudent thing, and simply filled the glass. 110 proof.
More tomorrow.
III to III

 

[KiloBaker]

Still no start and a new question

Got the chisel tip out, engine will crank like it really wants to start, but will not run without an ether shot. Probably need to bleed the fuel system, ran out of daylight. Will try tomorrow.

There's a spring loaded small toggle switch on the left lower side of the dash, says cold weather start, says to not hold switch unless cranking under 20 degrees.
What does this do? How does this work?

 

[maahes]

I was told by an old National Guard motor pool mechanic that that toggle switch goes with a bottle of ether under the hood, hit the switch and it gives it a shot.
I have a bracket and tubing in the engine compartment, on the firewall right in front of the driver that is missing the bottle.
He said they started removing the bottles because they were blowing a lot of engines, however the switches remained.
I haven't followed the wires yet to see if that's where they go.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Some are the original "intake manifold flame heater" and some are the ether shot. The original flame heaters were prone to leak, so they stopped using them.

 

[KiloBaker]

There's an ether shot line from under the steering column to the top of the air cleaner assembly. No wiring to this, looks like a bottle of some sort fits up into the assy beneath the steering column.

I just attempted to crank the motor with the toggle held onto the right(on) position, and I heard a muffled whoof! Now there's white smoke issuing from the mushroom cap, and the air cleaner assy is warm to the touch. Intake pipe is warm almost to the turbo. what did this switch do? smoke smells almost like an electrical meltdown, but there's no wires going to that airbox. May be overheated diesel fuel I smell.
Can anyone explain what is happening?

 

[gimpyrobb]

There is a squirt gun in the intake. There is also a spark plug. When the fuel is squirted it, the plug ignites it to heat up the intake IN COLD WEATHER. You could always read the instruction book(TM).