Functional electric fan conversion.

[Glider]

But thinking a little more about it. The fan in the article is 2500cfm/20ish amps. If the humvee cooling fan is 10,000cfm easy math says the electric fan will need to run 4 minutes to do the work of one minute for the belt driven fan. In my area with typical summer weather, me running flat ground 50-55ish. The fan will come on randomly depending on size of hills. The additional electric fan could prevent those cyclings. Add in a long uphill pull and the main would come on and cool everything down. Downside would be less airflow when electric fan off and possible wear on batteries and generator. I'm getting interested. I might try this after I finish painting camo, getting my 60amp generator working properly, braze loose brackets on radiator and install highback seats. LOL

 

[Action]

They started using pusher fans to help increase airflow on fully armored trucks being operated in the desert in combat conditions.

As for airflow, the numbers I have seen is always in excess of 10k CFM for air movement. Not sure how an electric fan at half that, combined with a lower thermostat opening temp, will equal the same amount of cooling.

Cooling a Military Hummer With an Electric Fan - 4Wheel & Off-Road Magazine

Read all about installing an electric fan on a millitary hummer serving in Iraq in 4Wheel & Off-Road Magazine!

www.motortrend.com

So, I can spend $200 and use what some guys in the military did. Or spend $1,000 for the setup listed here. Both claim more horsepower.

 

[fairladyaffair]

When did the military use electric fans on the cooling stack?
The H1 community has tried this for a long time and many agree that electric fans on these trucks block more air than they move.
For a good comparison, what is the cfm rating of our hydraulic fan?

Many battalions of Marines at least used electric fans to help supplement cooling. At least while i was in.

You are correct, using them as pusher fans creates large dead space where the motor is. Using them as puller and mounted directly to the face of the radiator also causes dead space where air cannot move through the radiator efficiently.

However with the correct shroud and spacing they are very effective with sufficient amps to profide the necessary CFM.

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[fairladyaffair]

you keep saying a lower temp thermostat.
These engines like to run hot. Putting in a lower thermostat is usually a bad thing, as it can lead to issues over time from the engine not being hot enough to burn efficiently, especially in cooler climates.

For engines that run in cooler temp areas on a regular basis, and by cooler i mean require some means to limit airflow on the radiator because it will freeze even with antifreeze. For those that this is not an issue running cooler is better. The compression strike is what creates the heat in order to achieve combustion. Unless you are in sub zero temps where air flow is is necessary to be limited then your engine block will easily achieve 180+ temperatures. The only reason you would ever need to worry about the thermostat mod is if your engine block drops below those temps.

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[fairladyaffair]

So, I can spend $200 and use what some guys in the military did. Or spend $1,000 for the setup listed here. Both claim more horsepower.

These two setups are completely different in every way. It is a fact, not a claim that you will achieve greater horsepower, throttle response, and fuel economy. How much is yet to be determined but, optimisticly horsepower would probably only be 15hp at best. That number can grow or shrink based on your setup and other factors. However the overall drive ability, noise etc is significantly more pleasant. I have video of it operating with excellent results. If your interested please check out my instagram @dirtyvee90.



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[Coug]

So, I can spend $200 and use what some guys in the military did. Or spend $1,000 for the setup listed here. Both claim more horsepower.

the $200 fan is to assist the main fan, not to replace it. The two are not a direct comparison.

 

[fairladyaffair]

They started using pusher fans to help increase airflow on fully armored trucks being operated in the desert in combat conditions.

As for airflow, the numbers I have seen is always in excess of 10k CFM for air movement. Not sure how an electric fan at half that, combined with a lower thermostat opening temp, will equal the same amount of cooling.

Cooling a Military Hummer With an Electric Fan - 4Wheel & Off-Road Magazine

Read all about installing an electric fan on a millitary hummer serving in Iraq in 4Wheel & Off-Road Magazine!

www.motortrend.com

This fan setup will not equal 10k cfm to be sure, never claimed it would. The fan is rated to move 5,000 cfm on high and 2700 on low. It is def in its infancy as far as design and is not for everyone, ie probably not suited for 10k towing or up armored trucks with this particular model ive come up with. Now for a truck without armor, and light towing and obviously a healthy cooling system that functioned well with its own i am confident it will function exceptionally well.

One thing that has to be considered is just how parasitic the hydraulic driven fan is. By itself at idle without engagement air resistance already is putting load on the engine thereby affecting the amount of heat, and resistance put on the engine just to run. Once you remove it this greatly decreases the engines load as the engine RPMs increase. This load increases greatly the faster the engine turns, even disengaged. We all are aware of how draining it is when it is engaged.

That being said the engine will not feel any resistance from this setups operation. So far it has had no issues maintaining the engine block at 200 to 210 degree operational temps with water temps fluctuating between 170 degrees and 200 degrees in the engine and 160 degrees to 190 degrees in the radiator core itself. These are recorded temps with a laser thermometer on the engine block, water pump, and radiator core on a MODIFIED hmmwv m998 with a 6.2l and a 3 speed. Thursday i will begin installing one on a completely factory 6.2l 3 speed with no coolant system modifications. I will record these same numbers with extensive testing.

I care a great deal about what i make and sell. I have yet to make a profit on anything, just testing it to the point i am confident it will work for any customer that i have tested and verified it will perform on.

So far i have tested in on my truck in high humidity at 100 degree outside temps, very little air movement and creeping through rocks, racing across open fields banging through the gears, smoking all 4 of my 42" tires up very steep rock faces and then just sitting in its own heat. My truck is completely incased in 3/16 steel from front to rear to protect from rock damage and has very little room for heat to escape around the engine. That being said it does not weight as much as a armored truck, or likely even a 4 door civilian H1. It likely only ways 6500 lbs and I'm being heavy, its probably lighter.

The price is a very conservative considering how complete it is and will definitely go up if the price of components included increases. It will also decrease for those of us that do not need or want certain components. It is fabricated for those of us who want a cheaper option. I welcome anyone to spend the time and effort i have to accomplish this and be willing to produce something for less. It is literally a bolt on easy to install option.

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[fairladyaffair]

But thinking a little more about it. The fan in the article is 2500cfm/20ish amps. If the humvee cooling fan is 10,000cfm easy math says the electric fan will need to run 4 minutes to do the work of one minute for the belt driven fan. In my area with typical summer weather, me running flat ground 50-55ish. The fan will come on randomly depending on size of hills. The additional electric fan could prevent those cyclings. Add in a long uphill pull and the main would come on and cool everything down. Downside would be less airflow when electric fan off and possible wear on batteries and generator. I'm getting interested. I might try this after I finish painting camo, getting my 60amp generator working properly, braze loose brackets on radiator and install highback seats. LOL

The fan in this article is 2800 cfm on low at 27 amps and 5,000 cfm on high at 47 amps. This info is direct from Ford Motor Co.

Again you have more to consider than just amount of air movement. Current engine load is a factor and the hydraulic fan is extreamly high load and contributes to its own heat production. If i could figure out how to load a video i would prove it to you . I have loaded several on my instagram @dirtyvee90.

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[Glider]

I apologize for hijacking the gentlemen's thread. He is offering a solution that would do away with the numerous potential failure points in the hydraulic system. I get that. As far as horsepower goes you are never going to get more horsepower out of the engine than what it is producing. The hydraulic fan when not in use yields the most horsepower. The same could be said for an electric fan that is not running. A smaller fan that runs more will technically take away from the overall horsepower more than the hydraulic fan or an electric fan that functions as a hydraulic does. I don't like the looks of what I have seen so far but a hood scoop could help quite a bit if you are running roads.

The fan in this article is 2800 cfm on low at 27 amps and 5,000 cfm on high at 47 amps. This info is direct from Ford Motor Co.

Again you have more to consider than just amount of air movement. Current engine load is a factor and the hydraulic fan is extreamly high load and contributes to its own heat production. If i could figure out how to load a video i would prove it to you . I have loaded several on my instagram @dirtyvee90.

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I was referring to the helper fan mentioned in the article about military. How does the hydraulic fan use engine power when disengaged? I've seen people stop them with their hands.

Please don't think I am trying to say your setup won't work. It will. Talking horsepower. If you plan on running fan in two speeds the generator will load the engine just like the fan does. Technically you could spend more time with reduced hp if running the electric fan more time at a lower setting than a large load for a shorter time. There could be less loss from fan efficiency however.

 

[fairladyaffair]

I apologize for hijacking the gentlemen's thread. He is offering a solution that would do away with the numerous potential failure points in the hydraulic system. I get that. As far as horsepower goes you are never going to get more horsepower out of the engine than what it is producing. The hydraulic fan when not in use yields the most horsepower. The same could be said for an electric fan that is not running. A smaller fan that runs more will technically take away from the overall horsepower more than the hydraulic fan or an electric fan that functions as a hydraulic does. I don't like the looks of what I have seen so far but a hood scoop could help quite a bit if you are running roads.

I was referring to the helper fan mentioned in the article about military. How does the hydraulic fan use engine power when disengaged? I've seen people stop them with their hands.

Please don't think I am trying to say your setup won't work. It will. Talking horsepower. If you plan on running fan in two speeds the generator will load the engine just like the fan does. Technically you could spend more time with reduced hp if running the electric fan more time at a lower setting than a large load for a shorter time. There could be less loss from fan efficiency however.

Your just going to have to see it work.

What you described does not happen. It simply does not operate in the way stated. There is no load up from the generator when the fan is in operation. A generator is always producing its designed amperage. It does not quit and does not have a clutch system. It does however have a regulator that keeps it from charging the system to a crisp. The only way to illiminate the load created by the alternator/generator is to remove it and we all know thats not in the cards.

When the high fan operates there is zero load on the engine and very minimal effort put on the electrical system.

Yes you can stop the fan with your hand, but it is still a load on the pulley and creates resistance to the engines performance. It is however far less resistance than while engaged but still is parasitic in nature. Ill post on video on the steel soldiers facebook group.



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[Action]

Over 300,000 trucks pushed out the door, and AMG didn’t feel it was needed.

 

[fairladyaffair]

Over 300,000 trucks pushed out the door, and AMG didn’t feel it was needed.

And let me tell you they produced a marvel of modern engineering .

Look, a lot has changed since the initial design. The electric fan is an option, if you don't want it cool. If you do i have a good setup for you. Cheers.

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[Milcommoguy]

I apologize for hijacking the gentlemen's thread. He is offering a solution that would do away with the numerous potential failure points in the hydraulic system. I get that. As far as horsepower goes you are never going to get more horsepower out of the engine than what it is producing. The hydraulic fan when not in use yields the most horsepower. The same could be said for an electric fan that is not running. A smaller fan that runs more will technically take away from the overall horsepower more than the hydraulic fan or an electric fan that functions as a hydraulic does. I don't like the looks of what I have seen so far but a hood scoop could help quite a bit if you are running roads.

I was referring to the helper fan mentioned in the article about military. How does the hydraulic fan use engine power when disengaged? I've seen people stop them with their hands.

Please don't think I am trying to say your setup won't work. It will. Talking horsepower. If you plan on running fan in two speeds the generator will load the engine just like the fan does. Technically you could spend more time with reduced hp if running the electric fan more time at a lower setting than a large load for a shorter time. There could be less loss from fan efficiency however.

The statement highlighted above has me thinking ... That's the best thing that could happen if my fan failed... short of snapping the blade off. At least I am driving home with a cool engine .

Electric fan ??? blow a fuse, burn up a motor, wire falls off ??? Where's the back-up there? I understand the QEM cooling / fan system and can rebuild it on the cheap.

So... I wonder what are we trying to fix... if it isn't broken.

That $1000 for a lot less air flow sounds like some hot air that wouldn't work for me.

BUT... always good to dream and built it better, CAMO

GOOD LUCK and make money.

 

[fairladyaffair]

You are correct, there is not a failsafe in the event of a failure. This is the primary reason why the hydraulic is the factory go to for the manufacturer. If the hydraulics fail the fan locks in all the time keeping constant air flow. One reason diesel is such the go to is its ability to run without any electricity on the fully mechanical trucks.

However, any humvee considering the electric fan is not being used in a combat situation. Even then any truck can be disabled for any amount of reasons.

This fan has been tested on patrol vehicles nation wide operating 7 days a week 24 hours a day 365 days a year without failing. Yes it can fail but just like any other factory fan setup, it could fail if a fuze blew a wire came loose etc. You cut a hose and all your coolant leaks out you got a problem too .

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[jkcondrey]

Over 300,000 trucks pushed out the door, and AMG didn’t feel it was needed.

So you're saying everything about AMG is perfect....

 

[Mullaney]

So you're saying everything about AMG is perfect....

.
It must be perfect according to the price they sell for on the secondary market.

You know though, the ability for all of us to do whatever the heck we want to do - add features, remove them, upgrade or downgrade... All of that is what we can do to those things we bought and paid for. This is almost the Chevrolet and Ford discussion and which one is better. AND no matter what some folks say, one will always be better than the other. Hard core! Dyed in the wool fans!

Me personally, I am just glad we can have the discussions and offer up ideas for others!

 

[MattNC]

.
It must be perfect according to the price they sell for on the secondary market.

You know though, the ability for all of us to do whatever the heck we want to do - add features, remove them, upgrade or downgrade... All of that is what we can do to those things we bought and paid for. This is almost the Chevrolet and Ford discussion and which one is better. AND no matter what some folks say, one will always be better than the other. Hard core! Dyed in the wool fans!

Me personally, I am just glad we can have the discussions and offer up ideas for others!

I agree 100%. Let the experimenting play out! I am pretty certain having a high maintenance, low fuel economy, crazy loud military vehicle is 180 degrees away from the most practical solution for getting from point A to point B. I appreciate he is sticking his neck out and trying something new. As an engineer by training it is pretty clear to me AMG stopped pushing the big improvements forward on these trucks during the clinton admin. I have often thought of the electric fan idea myself during times where I know I am putting a good load on the engine but not getting the rpm's up high enough to really move some air, like towing farm equipment around. I am sure the same is with the OP who likes rock crawling.

 

[fairladyaffair]

I agree 100%. Let the experimenting play out! I am pretty certain having a high maintenance, low fuel economy, crazy loud military vehicle is 180 degrees away from the most practical solution for getting from point A to point B. I appreciate he is sticking his neck out and trying something new. As an engineer by training it is pretty clear to me AMG stopped pushing the big improvements forward on these trucks during the clinton admin. I have often thought of the electric fan idea myself during times where I know I am putting a good load on the engine but not getting the rpm's up high enough to really move some air, like towing farm equipment around. I am sure the same is with the OP who likes rock crawling.

Yep, the greatest thing about this setup is it pulls air when it needs it no matter the rpm. The hydraulic requires high rpm to produce the cfm numbers everyone is so proud of. The electric recognizes when it is needed and engages regardless of rpm it pulls the same amount of air whatever stage it is in. It uses two different thermal switches to decide which speed to engage. One at 180 degrees, low speed, and one at 200 degrees, high speed. It is especially useful when the truck is at extreamly low speed, like rock crawling, traffic, or just idle simply because of its ability to engage high speed when necessary. The hydraulic fan will never pull as much air as this setup does at low speed. At highway speeds it there is not a problem moving air through the radiator so the ridiculous amount of air at that point is over kill. If an admin will approve me to the steel soldiers facebook group ill post some videos.

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[Action]

Yep, the greatest thing about this setup is it pulls air when it needs it no matter the rpm. The hydraulic requires high rpm to produce the cfm numbers everyone is so proud of. The electric recognizes when it is needed and engages regardless of rpm it pulls the same amount of air whatever stage it is in. It uses two different thermal switches to decide which speed to engage. One at 180 degrees, low speed, and one at 200 degrees, high speed. It is especially useful when the truck is at extreamly low speed, like rock crawling, traffic, or just idle simply because of its ability to engage high speed when necessary. The hydraulic fan will never pull as much air as this setup does at low speed. At highway speeds it there is not a problem moving air through the radiator so the ridiculous amount of air at that point is over kill. If an admin will approve me to the steel soldiers facebook group ill post some videos.

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What is the intended operating temp with this kit? If the fan comes on at 180? My gauge isnt in the green until 185.
Wouldn’t that be pointless if the thermostat is still closed?

 

[Mullaney]

What is the intended operating temp with this kit? If the fan comes on at 180? My gauge isnt in the green until 185.
Wouldn’t that be pointless if the thermostat is still closed?

.
I need a fishing pole!

Anyhow, here I go fishing again. The way the military gauges are in the vehicles I have, 5° is no big deal. The better question is how about the thermostat? Is it a 180° piece of metal down there in the water neck? Those parts get old and sometimes need to be replaced. A temperature gun might tell you what heat you might really be seeing.

Definitely easy enough to adjust the thermostat on the electric blower. If not, it would be easy to add something to the circuit to choose your number.

I have M1088 and M1089 trucks that have factory fans on the waterpumps in those trucks. They also have factory electric pusher fans in front of the radiator, so the military has done this before. The electrics rarely come on in my trucks and I honestly don't know what the temp setting is. There is an OFF switch on the dash too for fording.

Just more information to share...