Gama Goat Safety

[JDToumanian]

Hi Group,
I was going to post this in the other Gama Goat thread today, but I didn't want to hijack it since this is changing the subject. This is a copy of an old post (over a year ago) from the 2-Stroke Detroit Diesel group on Yahoo, where Goats frequently come up in discussions both because they are DD powered and because the little aluminum 3-53 engine is a popular choice for repowering pickup trucks and the like.

I've never owned a Goat and have no experience with them other than my familiarity with their engine. I don't know the poster other than 'Doc', and I didn't save his e-mail address... Maybe he's a member here, but I doubt it. Either way, I don't think he'd mind my passing this on, which I meant to do some time ago. I'm curious what you guys think about it...

Regards,
Jon

I hope no one restoring a Goat is planning on a major road trip, but we used to convoy from Ft. Lewis, WA to Yakima, WA, which is a couple hundred miles away on the other side of the mountains. The noise of that little triple was deafening! We would wear standard hearing protectors with ear muffs over that and still couldn't hear ourselves think. So when you were driving in one, even with a guy in the next seat 2' away, there was a tremendous feeling of isolation, which, with the physical pounding from the sound and the truck, led quickly to fatigue, which led to people falling asleep and driving off the roads.

The mountain passes in Washington State are not very forgiving. There will be either a tree, rock, or several hundred feet of free fall in your path. The only thing in the way of occupant protection is about 1/8" of flat aluminum sheet and a dinky little aluminum bumper that is best used as a step. What the front end hits will be smacking you full force with nothing in front to stop it and several tons behind you pushing forward. We lost several guys that way, two at a time. It's a tough visit to the wife and kids.

Then of course there is the issue of amphibious operations. We prepared a Goat for a big brass demo once. Went through the list from one end to the other several times. Stripped off the canvas, put in the plugs, started the pumps and drove slowly down the boat ramp in front of a bunch of generals and a few Congressmen. The Goat rides in a dead calm with about 4-6" of freeboard, and is propelled by the tires spinning in the water. The driver was about 150' from shore when the freeboard started to reduce visibly, and before he could do anything about it, he was underwater and heading for the lake bottom. Did I mention that the tubs they had for the driver and co-driver seating were very awkward to get in and out of? It was about 45 seconds later (but seemed like an hour) when he popped up and waved at us. Getting the Goat out of the lake was finally assigned to a Navy Reserve unit out of San Diego as their summer training.

It was a very maneuverable vehicle, with great climbing capacity. We never rolled one, and we really should have the way a bunch of 19 - 21 year old kids drove them. They were a blast to drive on the flats, and kept up nicely off road if someone with a bit of caution was leading the way. As far as hauling stuff the way a M-37 (3/4 ton Power Wagon) or M-715 (5/4 ton Jeep pickup) would, it was quite possibly the most inefficient and impractical vehicle a Pentagon committee could have designed.

Every time I see one on eBay (there's one there now), I marvel that they still exist. It is definitely something most collectors will not have, and if the only use is parades and the occasional joyride, they'd probably be a thrill for someone with no memories associated with them. When I look at them, though, I see death looking back.

My goal with a military vehicle is to take an old flat fender Power Wagon and repower it with a 4-53 and gearing that would make it practical on the road. With a good brush rack and a winch on the front, you're looking at some real intimidation factor!

Just my $0.02. Hope I didn't overcharge you.
doc

 

[gimpyrobb]

He makes a good point about no frontal protection with tons of weight bejind you. I will think twice about wanting one now. They ARE dang cool looking though.

 

[cranetruck]

The swimming feature of an MV is probably never very useful, that goes for the M656 8x8 and M548 tracked carrier too. Conditions must be ideal, no current, no waves and river/lake banks that don't slope too much.
I think the M548 started out with swimming capability but was changed to fording only (David can correct me on this), which should tell the story.

 

[DDoyle]

Yep, the M548 swam, so did the M113. I'll agree to disagree on the usefulness of swimming - but you're probably forgetting a few older vehicles - LVT, GPA and most notably DUKW, the later of which was successfully demonstrated in near-hurricane conditions December 1, 1942, rescuing Coast Guard personnel whose vessel was overcome by the storm.

Bjorn, have I sent you the swimming photos of the M656? Let me know.

Merry Christmas all!

David

 

[cranetruck]

No swimming photos, David, although I have the APG video from the 60's. Please, send them, the more the merrier, also, if you have later date images from fielded unts. Much appreciated.

The XM757 doesn't swim, not enough boyancy in the rear.
Of course with the (Pershing missile) trailer it would hardly be possible anyway.
The XM757 can only ford to 40 inches, no deep water fording kit here.

 

[cranetruck]

Now, with a little imagination, one can make any vehicle swim. This inclides tanks.

 

[Gamagoat1]

Some points made are true, They are thin aluminum, hard to get in and out of, and don't swim well, but beyond that it's an article that's way exaggerated. Yes it's noisy but with halfway decent hearing protection it's great. I use head phones and listen to music when driving. It's comfortable, I drove to Kansas City form Elizabeth Colorado and had a ball.
The 353 puts out 103 hp and we zipped along at 55 and made 14.2 mpg.
The front bumper is a steel 3 inch I beam, probably more steel than a Cadillac bumper,
One little bilge pump that pumps 53 gpm, not much if some dummy forgot to install the hull plugs, which was documented to be the biggest cause of sinking. (second only to torpedo's)
The early Goats were plagued with problems, most were design flaws like restrictive exhaust systems causing overheated cylinder liners and early engine failure, but these were worked out very early in the production cycle. The swim issues, however, were never really rectified. Most Goats were rendered non swim by moving the exhaust tip down so that the engine could not run in the water.( Stupid yes, but true)
Any way, were all allowed to have our likes and dislikes, but temper them with some knowledge of the system before making judgement.
Merry Christmas All

 

[rdixiemiller]

Our county fire rescue unit had a goat many years ago. They loved it when they had to head up through the powerline right of ways to recover people/equipment. The tires on theirs were not the greatest, they said it was all over the road at 45mph or better. They turned it in eventually and replaced it with several CUCV's. My brother in law drove the old goat a lot. He liked it off road, said it was terribly noisy, and hard to get in and out of. None the less, he said it was a good truck for what they used it for.

 

[jfnemt1ff1]

HI all just had to say: I wiil soon be a new owner of a Goat. I think the noise could be a problem but my M35 is not all that quite. Like others have said it is a love or hate type of MV. But you have to say there are not to many other MV on the road that look that neat.
HAPPY HOILDAYS TO ALL.
John

 

[Gamagoat1]

Far Out John,
Welcome to the Goat herders,
Just use a good shooters ear protectors, no problem.
Like I said, I have a cheap head phone from Harbor Freight that also has speakers, I listen to tunes (Old stuff) when I drive .
Check out www.Gamagoat.com for info on the Goat.

Merry Christmas

 

[bigbee]

Clint and I spent about 6 hours on the trail at Grayling last fall in his Goat, enjoying a pleasant conversation the whole time. He has a hard top. Still awkward to get into and out of, and double check your belt carried cell phone everytime. We had to go back for what was left of mine.

 

[bigbee]

Clint's Goat w hardtop

While stopped for jeep maintenance 10 minutes into the ride.

 

[6x6pinz]

If I remember correctly the driver training video listed the cause of most driving related accidents to the rear wheels turning opposite the front. This takes some getting used to and no aggressive manuevers should be done at speeds. I have seen these things driving around town here in AZ. I have not had the pleasure of a ride in one yet but you know when one is coming several minutes before it gets in sight. The trucks are indeed an odity but then some would say that about any of our precious MV's. I for one would like to have one in my collection if for nothing else the occassional offroad trip and parade.

 

[Gamagoat1]

Mike,
Next time you head up North to Colorado give me a call. I'll take ya for a ride in the Goat.
Mike

 

[ida34]

The goats were the prime movers for 105mm towed howtizers until Humvee's took over the job late in the 80's. I never work on the small guns but all the artillery guys I worked with that had driven them really hated them. I would like one just to run around in but I never have had the chance to get one.

 

[Gamagoat1]

With a 103 hp engine and 7300 lbs of it's own to move I'm not surprised it didn't preform well, pulling a load like a big gun. Those suckers are heavy!

 

[rmgill]

It's interesting that the 50s-60s saw complex designs in the West that didn't need to be so complex but were still interesting from a technical standpoint. Goats, Bjron's 8x8, Ferrets, Stalwarts, Saladins/Saracens, all have complexities and oddities that made them more difficult than what came before (save for the Daimler Armored Cars of WWII).

 

[ida34]

With a 103 hp engine and 7300 lbs of it's own to move I'm not surprised it didn't preform well, pulling a load like a big gun. Those suckers are heavy!

We would call them the small guns. The howitzers in question were the M102 and they only weighed about 3004 lbs. You would also have some weight in ammo and such. The M198 I was on had a 900 series five ton as a prime mover and it weighed 15,000 lbs.

 

[Gamagoat1]

Very true Ryan, maybe complexity justifies cost.
I restored a 1944 M-20 and it was incredible for it's age. All control points to the engine were hydraulic.

 

[Gamagoat1]

I'd love to have a load like that to tow around. Really shake up the CHP.