Gear Options????

[MIKE2A6X2]

Does anyone know where i could get some higher gears for the differentials?

 

[NDT]

Vintage Power Wagons, $455 per set. VintagePowerWagons.com. 4.88's are all that is available. Makes for a nice ride at 55 mph.

 

[WarrenD]

Since you are in MA, try Bob Stahl. I recall he has the same gear kits. You could take a ride and pick them up, gotta be cheaper than UPS.

 

[Tanner]

Charles Talbert / M-Series Rebuild has gear sets... Plan on budgeting enough money to swap all bearings & seals at the same time - might as well rebuild the entire front/rear axle assemblies while you're in there. Do you have the setup fixtures for setting R&P gear lash?

'Tanner'

 

[MIKE2A6X2]

Im actually taking out the original engine, transmission, and electrical system. I just got a 4bt and allison. Im deploying in 2 weeks for 6 months and would like to have everything at home when i get back so i can tackle the project while on leave for a month. Thanks for the info guys ill look into it.

 

[Tanner]

What Allison?

 

[TGP (IL)]

What Allison?

4,5,6,8 Speed automatic.
Was manufactured by GM, Detroit diesel,Allison div.

Tom

 

[Tanner]

4,5,6,8 Speed automatic.
Was manufactured by GM, Detroit diesel,Allison div.

Tom

Ummm.... yeah.

I'm WELL familiar with the Allison transmissions; sold all models of them for many years.... Is he using an AT-series, MT-series, 1000 unit, etc.?

'Tanner'

 

[MIKE2A6X2]

allison 1000 series. I chose this because with the axle gears i couldnt go wrong. I figured 1800 rpm, 1:1 t-case, .61:1 (6th) tranny, with 38" tires. Still able to go almost 60mph with out even going to a bigger tire. And i honestly dont want to go any faster than that anyways with out upgraded brakes and steering. I was thinking about going with the nv4500 that had a .73 O/D but after running the numbers and weighing the price of upgrades to be able to be within the best operating RPM's for the 4BT i went with the allison.

 

[Tanner]

What TCM do you plan to use? Which 38" tires?

There is another option: use the Spicer 3053A 5-speed manual from a multifuel M35 behind the 4BT Cummins & the package fits the M37 well.
And no electronic controls to deal with like on the Allison. And lots cheaper.

'Tanner'

 

[MIKE2A6X2]

hmmm, I just picked up the engine and tranny a few days ago. I got the pair for 1800. separate. I know just the engine is worth that so i didnt put much thought behind it and it sounded like a good setup. Looks like ill be putting it for sale. Do you know a good source to find the Spicer 3053a?

 

[nattieleather]

Just another thought for your gear ratio. You could just swap the axles out. Though it's not a straight swap. I'm talking about say a set of Dana 60s out of a mid 80s Dodge or a Dana 60 and Corp 14 bolt from a 80s Chevy. The rears will only need the spring perches moved. Thr front will need the passinger side leaf spring moved out, or the drivers side axle housing cut down to make it fit. A bit of a hassle, but in the end you get a modern strong axle with disk brakes already on the front, and rear disk kits that are way cheeper than anything out there for the M37. Just some food for thought for you. Good luck on your deployment. Be safe!

 

[Tanner]

Not trying to sway you on the swap, but I am not aware of anyone having performed a 4BT/Allison 1000 swap into an M37... also, the aftermarket has stand-alone controllers available, and wiring harnesses & bits for swap, but they will be pricey...


Since you've already got the 'big bits' for the swap (4BT/Allison), take a look at www.4btswaps.com to see if anyone can give you any economical options -


Next: Take a look at Cabell Garbee's site (he's a buddy of mine here in area; have known him since 1986 in college) > he got me into M37's -


Links:
Engine Mounts
http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/rangeroverdrive.htm
http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/transmission.htm


Cabell installed a 4BT in front of a Ranger/NP420 gearbox combo & ran it this way for awhile, then swapped to a ZF 5-Speed transmission when the Ranger died.


Then: regarding Spicer 3053A trans – Cabell has info on his website under 'Transmissions' where he discusses optional manual transmissions to use behind the 4BT. Since the Cummins can be outfitted with an SAE bellhousing, it can be mated to the Spicer 3053A transmissions from 2.5 ton trucks (military Multifuel Deuce) which are available from many surplus dealers, or from forum members here on SS. And Charles Talbert at M-Series Rebuild has been installing the Spicer 3053A behind the 4BT's for many years in the trucks he has rebuilt. Look to his site for info - Dodge M37


Regarding tires: are you planning to keep the stock Budd rims on the M37? You'll be limited in how wide of a 16” tire that can be put on the rim, and this will limit you to how tall of a tire you can run. You and I have been discussing this a bit before in another post – wheel adapters, Gama Goat rims & tires, using adapters to allow swapping 20” 10-bolt rims onto M37, etc... stock Budd rims allow you to safely run the Michelin XL 11.00R16 tires, but as mentioned before, these are getting harder to find & decent radial inner tubes are getting tough to source. M Series / Charles may have some options on tubes -


Swapping axles under the M37 & going to more modern Dana/GM axles is an option, but opens up more fabrication issues... and how much of the truck is 'M37' at that point, if it matters?


If it were me, I'd look strongly into the 4BT/Spicer swap, using stock M37 axles for now & upgrading to front disc brakes from Ugly Truckling – the 3053A has a decent overdrive, but you'll need to look at turning the revs up slightly on the 4BT (Cabell did this on his truck) plus he went to 4.89 gears.


My swap is still slow in it's process, but I'm installing the GM 6.2 with a Spicer 3053A & keeping stock 5.83 gears for now.


'Tanner'

 

[MIKE2A6X2]

Wow, thanks for the info. I actually never came across the spicer when i was looking into a popular tranny for this swap. 4BTswaps.com has some good discussions and info about it. The possibilities are endless but like you said i would like to keep it an m37. Regear is a must due to the RPM's.

As for tires, Ive been emailing a guy who sells 20x10 wheel blanks. All i would have to do is take it to a machine shop and have the studs and hubs drilled out to the right specs. Im waiting on a price between just the blank and one drilled. Maybe if there were enough people interested we could do a group buy and get them even cheaper. Also, theres a guy on craigslist selling 4 custom m37 20" wheels with tires for $600. Again, waiting on pictures.

 

[spicergear]

M35Tom also has a taller overdrive kit for the 3053 Spicer's.

I put one behind a 427 tall deck Big Block Chevy in an M715 and ran it for years that way. It's a good trans for a lower buck swap but you will have to get creative for the rear transmission mount as stock they were suspended from the bellhousing. I made one up on the M715 catching a couple lower output collar bolts and bracing down from the top cover. Everyone knows that truck certainly was put through some tough terrain. Also you'll have to make a custom jackshaft from trans to T-case. Smallest you can go (that I'm aware of that bolts up) is a 1410 on the 3053, then reduce that to a 1310 which is prolly the size of your T-case yoke as it was on the original NP200 in the truck before I swapped in the NP205 with all 1410's.

 

[Tanner]

M35Tom also has a taller overdrive kit for the 3053 Spicer's.

I put one behind a 427 tall deck Big Block Chevy in an M715 and ran it for years that way. It's a good trans for a lower buck swap but you will have to get creative for the rear transmission mount as stock they were suspended from the bellhousing. I made one up on the M715 catching a couple lower output collar bolts and bracing down from the top cover. Everyone knows that truck certainly was put through some tough terrain. Also you'll have to make a custom jackshaft from trans to T-case. Smallest you can go (that I'm aware of that bolts up) is a 1410 on the 3053, then reduce that to a 1310 which is prolly the size of your T-case yoke as it was on the original NP200 in the truck before I swapped in the NP205 with all 1410's.

The conversion flange yoke/u-joints available to adapt the 3053A output to the M37 short shaft are the way to go... and correct on the need to fab a rear trans mount for the 3053A - it's a heavy trans, but not that much more than the weight of a NV4500 & way cheaper on the required transmission lube.

'Tanner'

 

[spicergear]

Yes, there's not 10lbs difference between the 3053A and the NV4500. They look physically larger but the NV has it's ribbing on the outside and looks more narrow because of that. You'll find the 3053's at ANY surplus that has deuce trucks. Make sure you get the 3053 not 3052 as the latter doesn't have overdrive. That said however, don't make the assumption that all 3052 tagged transmissions are 1:1. Over the years they get rebuilt and updated with the later 'diesel' gear sets. I personally had a 3052 tagged trans that was behind a multifuel and indeed an overdrive.

 

[MIKE2A6X2]

Do you know what the tag will say if its an OD tranny? o

 

[spicergear]

3053 or 3053A. You can double check by putting it in 5th, spinning the input and making sure the output gains on it. Output should turn not quite a quarter rotation more than the input.

 

[spicergear]

You may run across an English (I believe) tag from like Wolfington (Something...ish...like sorta that...) where it won't say 3053 on it but have some other odd form of ID. You can tell visually by the case that it's a deuce tranny so find 5th gear and spin it.